HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

How many of Brodeur's Vezinas did he deserve to win

View Poll Results: How many of Brodeur's Vezinas did he deserve to win
all 4 125 60.10%
3 of 4 44 21.15%
2 of 4 26 12.50%
less than 2 13 6.25%
Voters: 208. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-02-2009, 09:28 AM
  #26
mytor4*
 
mytor4*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haakon84
Brodeur allowed 5 more goals while facing 280+ more shots than Nabokov.

I don't see how you can say it's Nabokov unless you are just tired of Brodeur winning it.

More fun stats:
In losses...

Nabokov:
3.22 .872
24 shots faced per game
1.84 goals forwarded by San Jose


Brodeur:
2.81 .897
27 shots faced per game
.97 goals forwarded by New Jersey

San Jose was shutout only 1 time when Nabokov started.
New Jersey was shutout 11 times

San Jose scored a goal or less 11 times for Nabokov.
New Jersey scored a goal or less 26 times for Brodeur.


This tells the story.By the way i voted all four he deserved involving only 1 close race with Luongo

mytor4* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2009, 09:35 AM
  #27
Caseman
Registered User
 
Caseman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,024
vCash: 500
This thread is stupid. No one "doesn't deserve" to win something. You can say Luongo or Nabby "deserved" it as well, but Brodeur put up Vezina-esque stats and got rewarded thusly.

Caseman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2009, 10:29 AM
  #28
CMac17
Scaaaaaaar!
 
CMac17's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fairport, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,167
vCash: 500
"Deserved"? I'm confused. Are you saying he paid someone off for at least one of them? Or is it the West Coast/East Coast thing we're getting to? If that's legit, the whole process should be thrown out and this thing shouldn't be awarded at all. Unless you want to award it based on a number, like best GAA, best Save%, most wins, etc...


Of course I voted 4, and yes my opinion is heavily influenced by the fact that I get to watch this guy play all of the time. But there were plenty of years where he could have easily won it and wasn't even close... and many fans of his felt that it was because of the "big name" of other goalies at the time...

...sounds familiar if you ask me!

CMac17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2009, 11:13 AM
  #29
Devilswede
Registered User
 
Devilswede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 11,534
vCash: 500
What a ****ing dumb thread! The general managers in this league voted = the most knowledgeable people in hockey.

If anything Brodeur should've won a couple more Vezinas so far...

Devilswede is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2009, 01:54 PM
  #30
Harrison Ford
Registered User
 
Harrison Ford's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 20,046
vCash: 500
all 4. this is like asking if a team deserves to win the stanley cup.

Harrison Ford is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2009, 02:06 PM
  #31
Devils Mike*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 6,989
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Devils Mike*
He deserves 3 more, but of course the biased NHL didn't let him win when other goalies had a great defense in front of them.

Devils Mike* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2009, 02:44 PM
  #32
Dr Quincy
Registered User
 
Dr Quincy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 15,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDanceOfMaternity View Post
The sharks were a horrible team last year without Nabokov. Every single player was worse than the year before, and they were legitimately perhaps the most predictable team in pro sports. At the trade deadline when they got Campbell, they could have just as easily traded Marleau among others away and became sellers instead (or aimed for a bottom playoff seed with more draft picks for the future). Yes the devils do not have Joe Thornton, who scored like 1/3 of the team's points, but Nabokov was the team, period. Brodeur had a great season, but I don't recall him making a dozen ridiculous saves on every start. At least the team in front of him knew what they were doing.

There's a reason the stats thing doesn't fly with people who watched Nabokov last year.
The Devils were a worse team last year w/o Brodeur.

W/0 Nabokov the Sharks gave up 2.63 gaa
W/o Brodeur the Devils gave up 2.97 gaa

Whether the Sharks were better or worse in 07-08 than 06-07 is irrelevant, because they were better than the Devils in 07-08.

The Sharks scored more goals, were on the PK less often (which is a benefit for the goalie) and were on the PP 54 more times (which is a huge benefit for the goalie since his team is both more likely to score and less likely to be scored on). Those are huge advantages that Nabokov had that Brodeur didn't.

Broduer faced 280 more shots, despite playing the same number of games as Nabokov. Of course me made huge saves.

You question whether any Nabokov doubters have watched him play. I'm questioning whether or not you watched Brodeur play.

Dr Quincy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2009, 02:49 PM
  #33
Dr Quincy
Registered User
 
Dr Quincy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 15,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by trapper View Post

San Jose was shutout only 1 time when Nabokov started.
New Jersey was shutout 11 times

San Jose scored a goal or less 11 times for Nabokov.
New Jersey scored a goal or less 26 times for Brodeur.


This tells the story.By the way i voted all four he deserved involving only 1 close race with Luongo
Those stats are unbelievable and totally discredit the people who say that SJ had a bad team that Nabokov had to carry.

27 times w/ 1 or less goal support v. 12 times.

Brodeur put up better numbers with worse support. I fail to see the argument against him last year could possibly be.

Dr Quincy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2009, 03:33 PM
  #34
lefty2time*
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,109
vCash: 500
every single one of them.

lefty2time* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-02-2009, 04:29 PM
  #35
daveskirtun
:o)
 
daveskirtun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Richmond, VA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,343
vCash: 500
all 4. sorry

daveskirtun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2009, 12:28 AM
  #36
Henrique
Registered User
 
Henrique's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 1,706
vCash: 500
Is this a serious question? Omfg, someone smack the OP in the head.

Henrique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2009, 02:44 AM
  #37
Clowe Me
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 530
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 20,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Those stats are unbelievable and totally discredit the people who say that SJ had a bad team that Nabokov had to carry.
Nabokov carried the team the entire season. He started 77 of 82 games in the regular season and all 13 in the playoffs. Dmitri Patzold and Thomas Greiss were horrible and Wilson could not afford to start either one because of Anaheim and Dallas staying close in the division the entire season. Yes, Boucher came at the deadline, but he wasnt much of a factor.

His SV% wasn't elite IMO because the team didnt give up too many perimeter shots that dont have much chance of going in and pad his percentage. A lot of goals scored on him were from defensive breakdowns near the net where he had no chance.

Clowe Me is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2009, 02:48 AM
  #38
Gunnar Stahl 30
...In The World!
 
Gunnar Stahl 30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Marty's Better
Country: Iceland
Posts: 14,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticSharkie View Post
Nabokov carried the team the entire season. He started 77 of 82 games in the regular season and all 13 in the playoffs. Dmitri Patzold and Thomas Greiss were horrible and Wilson could not afford to start either one because of Anaheim and Dallas staying close in the division the entire season. Yes, Boucher came at the deadline, but he wasnt much of a factor.

His SV% wasn't elite IMO because the team didnt give up too many perimeter shots that dont have much chance of going in and pad his percentage. A lot of goals scored on him were from defensive breakdowns near the net where he had no chance.
so are you saying nabokov deserved it over brodeur? im not going to re post the stats but its obvious brodeurs are better with an above average (at best) defense in front of him and he has to face some of teh greatest offensive players in the game regularly

ridiculous poll btw. reeks with bitterness

Gunnar Stahl 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2009, 02:50 AM
  #39
ShawnTHW
@ShawnTHW
 
ShawnTHW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 8,909
vCash: 500
3 of the 4.

Nabakov should have won it last year.

ShawnTHW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2009, 02:53 AM
  #40
Classic Devil
Global Moderator
Spirit of 1988
 
Classic Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 33,764
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
3 of the 4.

Nabakov should have won it last year.
I seriously do not understand why people believe this. Look at Nabokov's numbers, look at Brodeur's numbers, look at the numbers of each of their teams, and all of them suggest that Brodeur was more important to the Devils than Nabokov was to the Sharks.

Classic Devil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2009, 02:56 AM
  #41
Gunnar Stahl 30
...In The World!
 
Gunnar Stahl 30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Marty's Better
Country: Iceland
Posts: 14,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
I seriously do not understand why people believe this. Look at Nabokov's numbers, look at Brodeur's numbers, look at the numbers of each of their teams, and all of them suggest that Brodeur was more important to the Devils than Nabokov was to the Sharks.
i dont get it either, the stats all say brodeur, plus its not like new jerseys defense is top 10, and look at the opposition brodeur has to face(crosby, malkin, ovechkin, jagr, richards, brierre, hossa for a bit.....)

Gunnar Stahl 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2009, 02:57 AM
  #42
ShawnTHW
@ShawnTHW
 
ShawnTHW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 8,909
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
I seriously do not understand why people believe this. Look at Nabokov's numbers, look at Brodeur's numbers, look at the numbers of each of their teams, and all of them suggest that Brodeur was more important to the Devils than Nabokov was to the Sharks.
How can you argue that at all. Nabakov was WAY more important because he ended up playing 72 out of 82 games for them and still put up outstanding numbers. The more you play, the more you get tired, and if that happens, the greater your chances of letting up in net and not putting up the stats to earn a Vezina. But Nabakov wasnt phased by it at all. Played 72 games and still put comparable numbers to Brodeaur. I highly doubt any goalies in this league could do that.

EDIT: Not even comparable, but almost identical and better in some categories.

ShawnTHW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2009, 02:59 AM
  #43
Clowe Me
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 530
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 20,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
so are you saying nabokov deserved it over brodeur? im not going to re post the stats but its obvious brodeurs are better with an above average (at best) defense in front of him and he has to face some of teh greatest offensive players in the game regularly

ridiculous poll btw. reeks with bitterness
No. I said in a previous post that they both deseved it but Brodeur won because of his decade and a half of consistency. And all goalies have to face the greatest offensive players in the game, there really aren't any guaranteed wins out there anymore.

Clowe Me is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2009, 03:00 AM
  #44
Classic Devil
Global Moderator
Spirit of 1988
 
Classic Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 33,764
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
How can you argue that at all. Nabakov was WAY more important because he ended up playing 72 out of 82 games for them and still put up outstanding numbers. The more you play, the more you get tired, and if that happens, the greater your chances of letting up in net and not putting up the stats to earn a Vezina. But Nabakov wasnt phased by it at all. Played 72 games and still put comparable numbers to Brodeaur. I highly doubt any goalies in this league could do that.

EDIT: Not even comparable, but almost identical and better in some categories.
Just, so you know, Brodeur played 77 games last season. 78 the season before, 73 the season before that, 75 the season before that, 73 before that, 73 before that, 72 before that, 72 before that... the last season he played fewer than Nabokov's outstanding 72 games was 70, that was 1998-99, which is the second fewest he's ever played since he became New Jersey's regular starter.

Classic Devil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2009, 03:02 AM
  #45
Gunnar Stahl 30
...In The World!
 
Gunnar Stahl 30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Marty's Better
Country: Iceland
Posts: 14,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
How can you argue that at all. Nabakov was WAY more important because he ended up playing 72 out of 82 games for them and still put up outstanding numbers. The more you play, the more you get tired, and if that happens, the greater your chances of letting up in net and not putting up the stats to earn a Vezina. But Nabakov wasnt phased by it at all. Played 72 games and still put comparable numbers to Brodeaur. I highly doubt any goalies in this league could do that.

EDIT: Not even comparable, but almost identical and better in some categories.
yea he played 72 of 82 games and had worse numbers compared to brodeur who played 77 of 82 games. i dont how you are using the games played factor for nabokov against brodeur who is notorious for playing 75 plus games a season

Gunnar Stahl 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2009, 03:05 AM
  #46
Clowe Me
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 530
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 20,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
i dont get it either, the stats all say brodeur, plus its not like new jerseys defense is top 10, and look at the opposition brodeur has to face(crosby, malkin, ovechkin, jagr, richards, brierre, hossa for a bit.....)
1 stat said Brodeur. 1. SV%

and Nabokov had to face Zetterberg,Datsyuk,Iginla,Getzlaf,Kopitar,Nash,Gab orik etc so that argument doesnt really fly.

Clowe Me is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2009, 03:05 AM
  #47
Clowe Me
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 530
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 20,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
yea he played 72 of 82 games and had worse numbers compared to brodeur who played 77 of 82 games. i dont how you are using the games played factor for nabokov against brodeur who is notorious for playing 75 plus games a season
Nabokov played in 77

Clowe Me is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2009, 03:06 AM
  #48
Gunnar Stahl 30
...In The World!
 
Gunnar Stahl 30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Marty's Better
Country: Iceland
Posts: 14,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticSharkie View Post
Nabokov played in 77
then why did he say 72? eitherway, they both played the same amount of games and brodeur had better numbers

Gunnar Stahl 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2009, 03:09 AM
  #49
Gunnar Stahl 30
...In The World!
 
Gunnar Stahl 30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Marty's Better
Country: Iceland
Posts: 14,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticSharkie View Post
1 stat said Brodeur. 1. SV%

and Nabokov had to face Zetterberg,Datsyuk,Iginla,Getzlaf,Kopitar,Nash,Gab orik etc so that argument doesnt really fly.
yea except non of those players are in san joses division. brodeur had to play the BEST offensive players in malkin, crosby (granted he was hurt), jagr, richards and brierre all 8 times

Gunnar Stahl 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-03-2009, 03:12 AM
  #50
Classic Devil
Global Moderator
Spirit of 1988
 
Classic Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 33,764
vCash: 500
Awards:
The difference in their Sv% was .910 to .920. That's huge. And Brodeur faced 200 more shots against. You don't think that's enough to overcome a difference of 5 goals against (when it's pretty clear that the Devils defense last season, featuring the awesome combination of Martin, White, Mottau, Brookbank, Greene, and Oduya, all of them (except Martin) at their worst), 2 wins (when San Jose was a far superior offensive team, that's clear from other stats in this thread), and 2 shutouts?

Classic Devil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:09 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.