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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Philadelphia-Atlanta

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Old
01-03-2009, 04:08 PM
  #51
Nikita Filatov*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Who is overpaid?
Hartnell.

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Old
01-03-2009, 04:11 PM
  #52
mja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Who is overpaid?
I can only surmise that he's referring to Lupul.

It is funny to hear Lupul called a third liner.

Apparently every Flyers player is overpaid and nothing special. Hell, Scotty Hartnell's just a salary dump to him.

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Old
01-03-2009, 04:15 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruinsfan1 View Post
Hartnell.
1) Hartnell isn't overpaid. 4.25 is more than reasonable for what he brings to the table.

2) You weren't referring to Hartnell, because you were directly responding to a proposal that didn't feature him, but Lupul instead.

3) In the same post, you referred to Lehtonen as a franchise player, which is simply comical on its face.

4) I think you are awful at assessing trade value.

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Old
01-03-2009, 04:28 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Just imagine what the Philadelphia offense would look like. A basically impossible scenario yes, but just think...

To Philadelphia: Ilya Kovalchuk,

To Atlanta: Ryan Parent, James vanRiemsdyk, Scott Hartnell, Mike Knuble(salary), 3rd 09

Philadelphia gets the second best goal scorer in the NHL to go along with the 3rd best goal scorer. Atlanta gets a very good young defenseman who going forward would form 3/4 of a good top 4 in Bogosian, Parent, and Enstrom. They also get the best LW drafted prospect in the NHL in vanRiemsdyk who will be coming to the NHL in 09-10 who has first line potential written all over him. They also get a very good second line energy player who is an extremely valuable player to a team going forward and is signed for another 4 years. Knuble has to go because of salary reasons. And a pick in a deep draft. Look at how lethal a lineup we could have...

Kovalchuk-Richards-Briere
Gagne-Carter-Giroux
Upshall-Metropolit-Lupul
Cote-Powe-Asham

Timonen-Vaananen
Coburn-Carle
Jones-Alberts

I know this is basically impossible and kind of non-logical but how does the value look for each team?

I say no based on the fact the flyers are already having salary cap issues this year and will for the next few years.....There's no room to extend him out behind the time he is already signed.

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Old
01-03-2009, 04:30 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruinsfan1 View Post
Hartnell.
Thats just stupid. and why is he overpaid?


Last edited by Kaktus*: 01-03-2009 at 06:29 PM.
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Old
01-03-2009, 05:03 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
in the original deal philly sacrifices depth and grittiness to take an aggregate loss in goals. along with giving up serious weight in prospects. they may get the best player but it doesnt make them a better team.

kovalchuk is an elite scoring winger. philly would want to bring him in to upgrade one of thier scoring wingers. one of them would be the 1st piece in any deal. atlanta has no interest in knuble as hes older and a free agent so that means hartnell, lupul or gagne. both hartnell and gagne have no trade clauses (which they could waive) so for arguments sake lets use lupul.

joffery lupul is a 25 year old 2nd line winger who has yet to find the consistency to fulfill his 1st line potential.

you then add the picks and prospects to fill the gap between lupul and kovvie.

contract:
lupuls contract is cheaper now and next year picks up on the long term. kovalchuk is a free agent after next year and will have high salary demands. result conditional 1st if kovie resigns in 2010

the talent gap:
atlanta is downgrading from a consitent 50 goal scorer to an inconsitent 30goal scorer with potential. its going to take one of the two flyers bluechip prospects jvr or giroux. with kovie in the sytem it allows the flyers to move giroux as they would compete for the same spot in the lineup. knuble is on the way out with jvr the heir apparent for his spot.

the superstar tax
kovie is a legit superstar in the league and such players usually by just being who they are command an addition of mid level players or prospects. id go so far as to say 1 second tier prospect (nodl or parent) and one mid level (marshall or bartulis)

the salary cap
having addresses talent value we come to the salary cap and contract value. as the flyers are taking more back in salary they now get to say "here eat this money" any talent at all related to said contract is a bonus. kovalchuks contract runs this year and next so the length of the dump should be similar. if rumors of rathje wanting to play were to resurface id put him here, instead i present randy jones . otherwise the flyers could look elsewhere to relieve cap pressure and recieve a return.

hartnell would be a similar deal though probably without the second tier guy and gagne takes the blue chipper off the table. a combo of knuble and jvr would follow down but i dont think it works for atlanta. aside from that i dont see anything that works for the flyers aside from involving briere which would be more of a star for star deal.

This post is basically my proposal. I think it's entirely reasonable, and Kovalchuk is my favorite player. Atlanta adds depth - which they sorely need. This trade, combined with whoever they draft in 09 gives them a pretty decent looking future.

The Flyers have the opposite issue - if it's considered an issue - a lot of depth but no real game breaker - a lot of above average talent.

A game-breaker with a consistent goalie (not saying Lehtonen or Pavelec are it, but they have the potential to be that) might be what the doctor ordered for them.

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Old
01-03-2009, 07:49 PM
  #57
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pretty decent

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Old
01-03-2009, 08:19 PM
  #58
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Kovy's no chance of getting traded this season. Why can't you Flyer fans get this out of your head.

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Old
01-03-2009, 08:29 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Sidorkiewicz View Post
Kovy's no chance of getting traded this season. Why can't you Flyer fans get this out of your head.
He was just trying to figure out what the value would be, we don't really want Kovalchuk man.

I'd rather keep all of those beautiful assets offered in the deal rather than have Kovy.

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Old
01-03-2009, 11:43 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Sidorkiewicz View Post
Kovy's no chance of getting traded this season. Why can't you Flyer fans get this out of your head.
Flyers need Kovalchuk? News to me.

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Old
01-04-2009, 01:44 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Sidorkiewicz View Post
Kovy's no chance of getting traded this season. Why can't you Flyer fans get this out of your head.
Newsflash: MOST PEOPLE IN PHILADELPHIA DON'T WANT KOVALCHUK!
Read the damn thread!

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Old
01-04-2009, 01:54 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Sidorkiewicz View Post
Kovy's no chance of getting traded this season. Why can't you Flyer fans get this out of your head.
Most Flyers fans don't want him because we don't need him.

Though if Waddell has any ounce of common sense he'd trade him now instead of waiting until the next deadline where the return will be less for a rental.

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Old
01-04-2009, 02:13 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Who is overpaid?
Hartnell, on pace for 60pt 3rd liner.

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Old
01-04-2009, 02:14 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Sidorkiewicz View Post
Kovy's no chance of getting traded this season. Why can't you Flyer fans get this out of your head.
Very few (im surprised even one...) want "Kovy" on the Flyers. He doesn't make sense for us. It's not happening.

Billy Shoez should have posted this on the Flyers board, because even there this would have been torched.

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Old
01-04-2009, 10:12 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
Hartnell, on pace for 60pt 3rd liner.
I do not think you can call Hartnell a 3rd line player.

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Old
01-04-2009, 10:44 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
Hartnell, on pace for 60pt 3rd liner.
This isn't the 80's. 60 points is excellent for a second liner, nevermind a 3rd.

I think you're trying to match your perceived value of a player like Hartnell versus his actual value because you don't like him or his salary - but truthfully, there aren't many of his type left.

30 goal, second line power-forwards/agitators are rare indeed.

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Old
01-04-2009, 10:45 AM
  #67
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I KNOW THIS TRADE IS UNREALISTIC AND DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR THE FLYERS!!!!! As I said TWICE, I strictly wanted to know how the value of the trade was for both teams, and I know that this is more of a backwards move than anything for Philadelphia. I quote myself:

Quote:
I know this is basically impossible and kind of non-logical but how does the value look for each team?
Quote:
I was more wondering how the value was. I know this seems like a backwards deal for the Flyers, as it would be more beneficial for us to just keep our offense now and JVR's entry level deal, even thought it will be more than 2.5M. I've always liked Kovalchuk as a player, and was just wondering how close it was, even though Philadelphia is one of the least likely destinations for Ilya.

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Old
01-04-2009, 11:11 AM
  #68
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I think it's over payment considering how well the Flyers' offense has played together this year and ALSO considering how much the Flyers have relied on defensive depth to deal with injuries. Plus i think it's safe to say we're all dying to see JVR in a Flyers sweater...more than we'd like to see Kovy I'm sure.

The Flyers are not willing to trade all that for a high priced winger (and not for nothin but he's not North American or Finnish)

Our eyes are looking at adding JBo. Enough said.

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Old
01-04-2009, 01:01 PM
  #69
decadentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I do not think you can call Hartnell a 3rd line player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedjpd View Post
This isn't the 80's. 60 points is excellent for a second liner, nevermind a 3rd.

I think you're trying to match your perceived value of a player like Hartnell versus his actual value because you don't like him or his salary - but truthfully, there aren't many of his type left.

30 goal, second line power-forwards/agitators are rare indeed.

I was being facetious. Clearly he's not a 3rd liner like someone else mentioned.

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