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What the hell is wrong with gomez?

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Old
01-05-2009, 10:54 AM
  #51
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Its the system they are playing, gomez is so fast he gets to the opposing blue line, and no one is coming with speed with him. He runs into two dmen from the other team ,

So what's he been doing .... dump and chase...but the rangers forwards are so worried about odd man rushes that no one is getting to the puck fast enough...guess who has to pick up the puck...gomez.

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01-05-2009, 11:56 AM
  #52
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He should be sat for a game, plain and simple. As should Drury, Redden, Kalinin... the list goes on.

But that will never happen with Renney at the helm.

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01-05-2009, 12:24 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyLikesHockey View Post
Its the system they are playing, gomez is so fast he gets to the opposing blue line, and no one is coming with speed with him. He runs into two dmen from the other team ,

So what's he been doing .... dump and chase...but the rangers forwards are so worried about odd man rushes that no one is getting to the puck fast enough...guess who has to pick up the puck...gomez.
And when he's breaking into the zone with two other players and still decides to take a slapshot, which he does several times a game, usually with no positive result, who is to blame then?

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01-05-2009, 01:12 PM
  #54
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How quickly you forget his post-season. He carried the Devils offensively. But since that doesn't fit your argument, we'll gloss over it.
in fairness, he really only had one good post-season for us.

I agree with the rest, as I feel I've been a relatively unbiased judge of Gomez. I'm not sure he's any worse this year, then he was for us. But he does go through stretches when you wonder what the F is wrong with him. This would be one of those stretches.

However, he does gameup. So on games that matter, he plays well. He'll pick it up soon enough. Finish with about 65 points

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01-05-2009, 01:59 PM
  #55
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It's the same Scott Gomez that was on the Devils... he's par for the course. Just because you pay a guy more doesn't mean they miraculously produce more points and somehow play much better.

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01-05-2009, 02:03 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by DevFan-RU- View Post
It's the same Scott Gomez that was on the Devils... he's par for the course. Just because you pay a guy more doesn't mean they miraculously produce more points and somehow play much better.
Try getting that through the ears of the Gomez apologists. I've been trying since 07/02/07.

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01-05-2009, 02:09 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by DevFan-RU- View Post
It's the same Scott Gomez that was on the Devils... he's par for the course. Just because you pay a guy more doesn't mean they miraculously produce more points and somehow play much better.
But that's the philosophy of this whole organization

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01-05-2009, 02:13 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Try getting that through the ears of the Gomez apologists. I've been trying since 07/02/07.
Just to add:

Scott Gomez has averaged 65 points per season (not including this season) with a standard deviation of 11.04

So, more or less, his season point values move up and down within 11.04 points from the average.

In playoffs, he is more consistent, earning an average of 10.86 points with a standard deviation of 2.85

EDIT: My numbers may be off as I did not account 'games played'.


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01-05-2009, 02:16 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
But that's the philosophy of this whole organization
I guess. Winning the free-agent game these days seems to be a Pyrrhic Victory in today's NHL cap world.

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01-05-2009, 02:18 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevFan-RU- View Post
Just to add:

Scott Gomez has averaged 65 points per season (not including this season) with a standard deviation of 11.04

So, more or less, his season point values move up and down within 11.04 points from the average.

In playoffs, he is more consistent, earning an average of 10.86 points with a standard deviation of 2.85
Oh, haven't you heard? 65 point players are the guys you want to be paying $7 million dollars a season for.


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01-05-2009, 02:26 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Oh, haven't you heard? 65 point players are the guys you want to be paying $7 million dollars a season for.

If the Rangers didn't pay him that amount, someone else would have. (Not the Devils though... LL thought $5M was too much for Gomer's services)

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01-05-2009, 02:28 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by DevFan-RU- View Post
If the Rangers didn't pay him that amount, someone else would have. (Not the Devils though... LL thought $5M was too much for Gomer's services)
Exactly. That's why there's a difference between the Devils and LL and "someone elses" like Sather. Not many do that job better than Lou, in any sport. Meanwhile, if Slats decides to molest some intern, you might as well call him Isiah Thomas, part 2. He's done nearly as bad a job.

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01-05-2009, 02:51 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
And when he's breaking into the zone with two other players and still decides to take a slapshot, which he does several times a game, usually with no positive result, who is to blame then?
blame him. I am not defending him, I don't like him, think his attitude sucks and is in no way a 1st line center.

The only success he had with this team was with Shanny and Avery on his wings.

And those guys are gone...why even keep him around. Cut your losses while your ahead. I hear Ottowa is looking for some guys with heart.

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01-05-2009, 02:55 PM
  #64
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if Atlanta is hell bent on keeping Kovy what about giving them a center who could unlock Kovy's potential......but what could we get for Gomez if not Kovy...Enstrom
plus draft picks?

from the thn:

After watching Ilya Kovalchuk fail to score a goal in his ninth straight game Tuesday night, Atlanta Thrashers coach John Anderson finally acknowledged the obvious.

“I think I’ve got to seriously look at changing these lines,” Anderson said after Kovalchuk registered three shots and no goals in a 4-3 overtime loss to the Toronto Maple Leafs. “I have to think it’s not because of a lack of ice time because he’s certainly getting ice time…we need his scoring and outside the (Bryan) Little line, we need some consistent scoring."

Anderson is right about Kovalchuk to a point when it comes to ice time. Against the Leafs, he led all Thrasher forwards in both even strength and power play ice time. In fact, his 17:19 at even strength was almost three minutes more than the next highest player on the team.

But it’s not the minutes, it’s the quality of linemates with whom Kovalchuk is spending those minutes. For more than a month now, he has been on the left side of a line with Marty Reasoner at center and Chris Thorburn on the right side.

My goodness, Marty Reasoner and Chris Thorburn? Without disparaging Messrs. Reasoner and Thorburn, they would be fourth-liners on about 20 other teams in the NHL. In order to be effective, Kovalchuk needs players who can get the puck to him and Reasoner and Thorburn are not those kinds of players. Hard workers? Yup. Good guys? Probably. Worthy linemates for Ilya Kovalchuk? Not a chance.

To his credit, Kovalchuk doesn’t deflect attention away from his part in the scoring drought, which is the longest of his career. And the problem for the Thrashers is that they have exactly one line – Todd White between Slava Kozlov and Little – that is producing any type of offense. So Anderson is faced with one of two prospects – break up a line that has been playing well or put Kovalchuk with different fourth-line plodders than the ones with whom he’s currently playing.

(An interesting aside: the White line has recently been dubbed The Kahlua Line, because it’s a Little White Russian.)

“I don’t know what’s happening,” Kovalchuk said. “I’m going to keep trying and hopefully one is going to go in and everything will be the same.”

Kovalchuk has a lot of catching up to do if anything like that is going to happen. With 11 goals in 37 games, he’s on pace for just 24 goals this season. Even worse, he has taken just 105 shots this season, which puts him on pace for just 233, which would be his lowest total in five seasons and 50 fewer than he took last season when he scored 52 goals.



And it’s not as though Kovalchuk has gone completely dry. Since teaming up with Reasoner and Thorburn Dec. 2, Kovalchuk has 3-12-15 totals in 14 games and is on pace for a career-high 55 assists. But the Thrashers aren’t paying Kovalchuk $7.5 million a year to dish the puck off.

“Yeah, I know,” Kovalchuk said when it was pointed out to him that his shots are way down this season, “but when your partner is in a better position, you try to give him the puck.”

On the power play that’s usually Ron Hainsey or either Tobias Enstrom or Mathieu Schneider, which is not a bad option for him. But at even strength, he’s wasting his time getting the puck to his current linemates. The only problem is that the Thrashers are so bereft of offensive talent that there are precious few players who have the skills to play with Kovalchuk.

Which brings us to Kovalchuk’s future. He has never asked for a trade and GM Don Waddell has publicly stated he has no intention of trading Kovalchuk. The speculation is, though, that while he won’t be dealt before the trade deadline March 4, he’ll almost certainly be traded this summer when the Thrashers come to the undeniable conclusion that Kovalchuk won’t re-sign with them when his contract expires after the 2009-10 season.

It’s clear from his time in Atlanta that Kovalchuk is not suited to being the player to carry a team. He’s the kind of player who thrives on having good players around him and there’s no chance of that happening in Atlanta in the foreseeable future.

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01-05-2009, 03:01 PM
  #65
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Hey Sting: I heard there are some open seats over at the pebble.....why don't you try sitting over there?

sheesh

I hope Gomer lights it up in the playoffs so all the debbies can shut up.

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01-05-2009, 03:15 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
if Atlanta is hell bent on keeping Kovy what about giving them a center who could unlock Kovy's potential......but what could we get for Gomez if not Kovy...Enstrom
plus draft picks?

from the thn:

After watching Ilya Kovalchuk fail to score a goal in his ninth straight game Tuesday night, Atlanta Thrashers coach John Anderson finally acknowledged the obvious.

“I think I’ve got to seriously look at changing these lines,” Anderson said after Kovalchuk registered three shots and no goals in a 4-3 overtime loss to the Toronto Maple Leafs. “I have to think it’s not because of a lack of ice time because he’s certainly getting ice time…we need his scoring and outside the (Bryan) Little line, we need some consistent scoring."

Anderson is right about Kovalchuk to a point when it comes to ice time. Against the Leafs, he led all Thrasher forwards in both even strength and power play ice time. In fact, his 17:19 at even strength was almost three minutes more than the next highest player on the team.

But it’s not the minutes, it’s the quality of linemates with whom Kovalchuk is spending those minutes. For more than a month now, he has been on the left side of a line with Marty Reasoner at center and Chris Thorburn on the right side.

My goodness, Marty Reasoner and Chris Thorburn? Without disparaging Messrs. Reasoner and Thorburn, they would be fourth-liners on about 20 other teams in the NHL. In order to be effective, Kovalchuk needs players who can get the puck to him and Reasoner and Thorburn are not those kinds of players. Hard workers? Yup. Good guys? Probably. Worthy linemates for Ilya Kovalchuk? Not a chance.

To his credit, Kovalchuk doesn’t deflect attention away from his part in the scoring drought, which is the longest of his career. And the problem for the Thrashers is that they have exactly one line – Todd White between Slava Kozlov and Little – that is producing any type of offense. So Anderson is faced with one of two prospects – break up a line that has been playing well or put Kovalchuk with different fourth-line plodders than the ones with whom he’s currently playing.

(An interesting aside: the White line has recently been dubbed The Kahlua Line, because it’s a Little White Russian.)

“I don’t know what’s happening,” Kovalchuk said. “I’m going to keep trying and hopefully one is going to go in and everything will be the same.”

Kovalchuk has a lot of catching up to do if anything like that is going to happen. With 11 goals in 37 games, he’s on pace for just 24 goals this season. Even worse, he has taken just 105 shots this season, which puts him on pace for just 233, which would be his lowest total in five seasons and 50 fewer than he took last season when he scored 52 goals.



And it’s not as though Kovalchuk has gone completely dry. Since teaming up with Reasoner and Thorburn Dec. 2, Kovalchuk has 3-12-15 totals in 14 games and is on pace for a career-high 55 assists. But the Thrashers aren’t paying Kovalchuk $7.5 million a year to dish the puck off.

“Yeah, I know,” Kovalchuk said when it was pointed out to him that his shots are way down this season, “but when your partner is in a better position, you try to give him the puck.”

On the power play that’s usually Ron Hainsey or either Tobias Enstrom or Mathieu Schneider, which is not a bad option for him. But at even strength, he’s wasting his time getting the puck to his current linemates. The only problem is that the Thrashers are so bereft of offensive talent that there are precious few players who have the skills to play with Kovalchuk.

Which brings us to Kovalchuk’s future. He has never asked for a trade and GM Don Waddell has publicly stated he has no intention of trading Kovalchuk. The speculation is, though, that while he won’t be dealt before the trade deadline March 4, he’ll almost certainly be traded this summer when the Thrashers come to the undeniable conclusion that Kovalchuk won’t re-sign with them when his contract expires after the 2009-10 season.

It’s clear from his time in Atlanta that Kovalchuk is not suited to being the player to carry a team. He’s the kind of player who thrives on having good players around him and there’s no chance of that happening in Atlanta in the foreseeable future.
Are you saying the Rangers should straight up trade Gomez for Kovy? Because that is like buying a comb for a man who sold his hair to make a wig for you.

And are the Rangers willing to do what they did in the 2007 off season again? Sign a valuable player at an inflated free market price?

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01-05-2009, 03:18 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by TrappedinNJ View Post
Hey Sting: I heard there are some open seats over at the pebble.....why don't you try sitting over there?

sheesh

I hope Gomer lights it up in the playoffs so all the debbies can shut up.
What are you implying? That I'm a bad Ranger fan because I knew from the start that signing Gomez, as well as Drury and Redden, was a terrible idea?

You're just immature if you can't admit that their team is one of the best-run franchises in all of professional sports, while ours is among the worst. Their general manager is an icon, ours is a joke.

Newsflash, buddy. Your friend "Gomer," the one with the horrendous contract, is a debbie. That's one of the many reasons I don't like him. Like I wrote in another thread recently, can't stand Sather's obessesion with taking players from rivals that I hate. Didn't want Lindros, didn't want Holik, didn't want Kasparaitis, didn't want Gomez.

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01-05-2009, 03:40 PM
  #68
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They've had a great team for a long time. There's no denying that. I just don't like them coming over here with their "I told you so" posts and Ranger fans giving that validity, whether it turns out to be true or not. (Gomer)

They wont admit it but they hate it that he signed here and they want him to suck so they can feel vindicated. Don't chime in with their crap.

I want him to succeed here and I think he can. But we have lots of other issues that need to be addressed as well. Issues that were masked by some early wins and a front-loaded schedule.

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01-05-2009, 03:44 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
What are you implying? That I'm a bad Ranger fan because I knew from the start that signing Gomez, as well as Drury and Redden, was a terrible idea?

You're just immature if you can't admit that their team is one of the best-run franchises in all of professional sports, while ours is among the worst. Their general manager is an icon, ours is a joke.

Newsflash, buddy. Your friend "Gomer," the one with the horrendous contract, is a debbie. That's one of the many reasons I don't like him. Like I wrote in another thread recently, can't stand Sather's obessesion with taking players from rivals that I hate. Didn't want Lindros, didn't want Holik, didn't want Kasparaitis, didn't want Gomez.
To be fair, the Rangers have improved since the fire sale days. However, being a GM in NJ and being a GM in NYC are two different animals.

In NYC, you don't have the luxury of anonymity that NJ has. Lou can do his thing and not have to face massive media pressure, fan pressure, etc. Sather had the same deal when he was in Edmonton. The problem is, now he has the money in NY, and all the accountability along with it.

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01-05-2009, 03:49 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrappedinNJ View Post
They've had a great team for a long time. There's no denying that. I just don't like them coming over here with their "I told you so" posts and Ranger fans giving that validity, whether it turns out to be true or not. (Gomer)

They wont admit it but they hate it that he signed here and they want him to suck so they can feel vindicated. Don't chime in with their crap.

I want him to succeed here and I think he can. But we have lots of other issues that need to be addressed as well. Issues that were masked by some early wins and a front-loaded schedule.
Of course we hate it... wouldn't you hate it if we signed... Dubinsky? It goes both ways. We're not afraid to admit it (at least I am not).

Now as for your last point, he is doing exactly what he has been doing on the Devils. Not much better, but not much worse. He is the same Scott Gomez that once wore Red, Black, and White. The big thing is: Ranger fans expect so much from him, even though he is a veteran and has been fairly consistent throughout his career. Just because he is in the city, in a different uniform, and getting paid a lot more, doesn't mean he will be magically that much better.

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01-05-2009, 03:51 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by DevFan-RU- View Post
Are you saying the Rangers should straight up trade Gomez for Kovy? Because that is like buying a comb for a man who sold his hair to make a wig for you.

And are the Rangers willing to do what they did in the 2007 off season again? Sign a valuable player at an inflated free market price?
No, he was implying that we should trade Gomez to Atl to give them a center for Gomez and should get picks/prospects in return.

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01-05-2009, 03:54 PM
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Of course we hate it... wouldn't you hate it if we signed... Dubinsky? It goes both ways. We're not afraid to admit it (at least I am not).

Now as for your last point, he is doing exactly what he has been doing on the Devils. Not much better, but not much worse. He is the same Scott Gomez that once wore Red, Black, and White. The big thing is: Ranger fans expect so much from him, even though he is a veteran and has been fairly consistent throughout his career. Just because he is in the city, in a different uniform, and getting paid a lot more, doesn't mean he will be magically that much better.
Yeah, but Sather/Redden must also have seen something more from him (or at least thought that that one great season was indicative of what he could become). The fans expect more because he was signed to produce more.

I think the majority of his problems come from Renney not using him correctly, but there's no doubt that his level of play recently has looked less than inspired.

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01-05-2009, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
No, he was implying that we should trade Gomez to Atl to give them a center for Gomez and should get picks/prospects in return.
But I thought Kovy was a LW... unless I totally misinterpreted him.

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01-05-2009, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Yeah, but Sather/Redden must also have seen something more from him (or at least thought that that one great season was indicative of what he could become). The fans expect more because he was signed to produce more.

I think the majority of his problems come from Renney not using him correctly, but there's no doubt that his level of play recently has looked less than inspired.
Wait, are you talking about Redden now? Or Gomez? I'll assume Gomez as you may have meant "Renney" instead.

He's already a developed player, so him going above his already impressive career season 05/06, is not going to be something that is easily repeatable. Possible yes... but the statistics make it unlikely. What you see is what you get.

As for how Renney is using him, that's more on his use of Gomez's linemates. Gomez is an icebreaker, whose best role is to cut through the neutral zone and enter the offensive zone. He wont be flashy when attacking the net, and he isn't a shooter (though he can do both, it's just not his forte). He is a feeder and can only perform as well as the wingers he is playing with.

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01-05-2009, 04:03 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
What are you implying? That I'm a bad Ranger fan because I knew from the start that signing Gomez, as well as Drury and Redden, was a terrible idea?

You're just immature if you can't admit that their team is one of the best-run franchises in all of professional sports, while ours is among the worst. Their general manager is an icon, ours is a joke.

Newsflash, buddy. Your friend "Gomer," the one with the horrendous contract, is a debbie. That's one of the many reasons I don't like him. Like I wrote in another thread recently, can't stand Sather's obessesion with taking players from rivals that I hate. Didn't want Lindros, didn't want Holik, didn't want Kasparaitis, didn't want Gomez.
while i agree with most of your points, its really immature to not want your team to get players just b/c they played for a local rival.

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