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Question about icing

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Old
01-05-2009, 01:20 AM
  #1
Blackjack
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Question about icing

I'll try to make this quick...

I was playing a game last night, on penalty kill and I was forechecking. I applied some good pressure to the puck carrier and he fired the puck out of his end and down the ice. I was right in line with the puck and watched it sail down the ice, nowhere close to anyone. We have no-touch icing so I eased up, threw my arm up, and yelled "ice! ice!". The ref yelled "No!" and waved his arms.

I was really irritated and banged my stick blade on the ice as I scooted back to the defensive zone. They actually won possession and nearly scored on the play. After our goalie covered the puck I composed myself as much as I could and skated over to the ref asking why the icing was waved off. He told me that it was because we had 4 skaters in the defensive end.

I was flabbergasted. First of all, I was forechecking on the PK, and there couldn't have possibly been 4 men in the defensive end unless we had too many on the ice. Second of all, I've never heard of the number of players in the defensive end impacting an icing call. It was always my understanding that if the puck didn't pass anyone, and no one could have gotten to it before it crossed the goal line, it was icing. Period. Has anyone heard of this?

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01-05-2009, 01:32 AM
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IniNew
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Don't think we can help you with shotty reffing in your league.

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01-05-2009, 01:34 AM
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devsfan4life
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Yeah ref is just an idiot... it shouldnt have been icing.

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01-05-2009, 01:39 AM
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Gunnar Stahl 30
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if you were forechecking hard, and he dumped it, assuming because of the pressure you were applying, how were there 4 players in the defensive zone anyway? werent you atleast in the neutral zone?

eitehr way it should have been an icing

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01-05-2009, 09:37 AM
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Gino 14
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If the puck was playable by one of your players in the defensive zone and they made no attempt to play it when the ref thought it was palyable, that's probably why he waved it off. Your team's mistake for not playing the puck isn't a reason to call for bad officiating. Also, you said they were out of their zone which means it's possible that the shot was over center ice which would also negate icing, again, not bad reffing. It's easy to blame the ref, but it appears your team stopped playing and the other team didn't, so they must have know what was going on.

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01-05-2009, 10:13 AM
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Blackjack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gino 14 View Post
If the puck was playable by one of your players in the defensive zone and they made no attempt to play it when the ref thought it was palyable, that's probably why he waved it off. Your team's mistake for not playing the puck isn't a reason to call for bad officiating. Also, you said they were out of their zone which means it's possible that the shot was over center ice which would also negate icing, again, not bad reffing. It's easy to blame the ref, but it appears your team stopped playing and the other team didn't, so they must have know what was going on.
As I said in the OP, I watched the puck go down the ice and it wasn't near anyone. If the ref felt that someone could have played it, that would be fine since it's a judgment call. But that's not what he said. He said something about us having 4 men in the defensive zone. I was just wondering if there was anything to that since I've never heard of that rule before.

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01-05-2009, 11:09 AM
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Toonces
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Late night beer league?

You wouldn't beleive the reasons I've heard over the years for not calling an icing. Acually, you probably would, but I gotta say I haven't heard that one before. The later the games are, the more they tend to let slide.

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01-05-2009, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonces View Post
Late night beer league?

You wouldn't beleive the reasons I've heard over the years for not calling an icing. Acually, you probably would, but I gotta say I haven't heard that one before. The later the games are, the more they tend to let slide.
And the player calling ice, ice himself on a borderline call wouldn't help his cause, now would it?

Seriously, if you had 4 men in the defensive zone, one of them would have been able to play the puck, especially if it's coming in from past the red line. If the puck is playable by either team it's not an icing.

If you have 4 guys down there, one should be able to play the puck. The ref was right, this shouldn't have been an icing.

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01-05-2009, 11:54 AM
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Toonces
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Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
And the player calling ice, ice himself on a borderline call wouldn't help his cause, now would it?

Seriously, if you had 4 men in the defensive zone, one of them would have been able to play the puck, especially if it's coming in from past the red line. If the puck is playable by either team it's not an icing.

If you have 4 guys down there, one should be able to play the puck. The ref was right, this shouldn't have been an icing.
Sure, we don't know what happened, or exactly where the three other guys on the ice were so it's not possible to do anything but conceptualize based on the information provided. I guess 4 might have been in the zone if you count the goalie, but if they weren't anywhere near the puck, and it's fired down from the opposite end, I thought that's still icing.

It sounds like it should have been icing, at least based on how I interpret the rule, but I admit that I either could be wrong in my interpretation, or the information provided isn't factually accurate, due to perception or otherwise.

Anyway, I was just currious if it was a late night game, because they tend to be called differently, at least around here. I don't think it's worth making a big deal over though.

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01-05-2009, 02:41 PM
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Gino 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post
I was just wondering if there was anything to that since I've never heard of that rule before.
What you could have done differently was play the puck till the whistle blows it dead. You're not going to win a pissing contest with the ref, you're only going to make it worse on you and your team mates.

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01-05-2009, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gino 14 View Post
What you could have done differently was play the puck till the whistle blows it dead. You're not going to win a pissing contest with the ref, you're only going to make it worse on you and your team mates.
Agreed.
Besides, there's probably a lot less "by the book" reffing at the lower levels (not sure what level the OP plays at). If his team had a sizable lead, a considerable skill advantage or if the penalty that put him on the PK was especially blatant that might prompt the ref to overlook an icing call.

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01-06-2009, 08:09 PM
  #12
Blackjack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gino 14 View Post
What you could have done differently was play the puck till the whistle blows it dead. You're not going to win a pissing contest with the ref, you're only going to make it worse on you and your team mates.
Not sure why you think I was in a pissing contest with the ref. I was on the forecheck and gliding back toward my end, as soon as I realized the ref wasn't calling icing I put my head down and played until our goalie covered up. I had two opposing players behind me. After I asked the ref why he didn't call icing and got his response I didn't complain or mention it again. I was just shocked by what he told me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonces View Post
Sure, we don't know what happened, or exactly where the three other guys on the ice were so it's not possible to do anything but conceptualize based on the information provided. I guess 4 might have been in the zone if you count the goalie, but if they weren't anywhere near the puck, and it's fired down from the opposite end, I thought that's still icing.

It sounds like it should have been icing, at least based on how I interpret the rule, but I admit that I either could be wrong in my interpretation, or the information provided isn't factually accurate, due to perception or otherwise.

Anyway, I was just currious if it was a late night game, because they tend to be called differently, at least around here. I don't think it's worth making a big deal over though.
It was a late night game, C level league (basically two levels up from beginner, but we would get murdered by a decent varsity high school team). I guess I'm just getting frustrated. They let so much stuff go that I'm starting to wonder what I'm paying for. Open hockey would be much cheaper than this.

A few weeks ago I was backchecking, the opposing player was in the high slot, and was about to receive a pass from the low corner. I put my shoulder under his arm and dropped him to the ice as the puck slid harmlessly past. No call. He was screaming bloody murder and I don't blame him.

And yes, being that all you have to go on is what I tell you, it is entirely possible that my account is wrong and the puck went right past one of my teammates. If the ref had told me one of my teammates could have played it, I would have been fine with that.

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01-06-2009, 08:46 PM
  #13
Red Dragon
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It could have been cause he felt you showed him up by saying "ice! ice!". Or it could have been that you or a teammate gave up on the puck, whta I usually do is take a longer angle don't make it too obvious though or you can just make it look like you are skating fast by taking longer strides.

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01-07-2009, 02:24 AM
  #14
Sixty Six
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i'm assuming the ref felt one of the players in your end could or should have made a play on the puck and decided to waive it off

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01-07-2009, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post
I'll try to make this quick...

I was playing a game last night, on penalty kill and I was forechecking. I applied some good pressure to the puck carrier and he fired the puck out of his end and down the ice. I was right in line with the puck and watched it sail down the ice, nowhere close to anyone. We have no-touch icing so I eased up, threw my arm up, and yelled "ice! ice!". The ref yelled "No!" and waved his arms.
As a linesman, I'd wave it off solely because you tried to show me up by raising your arm and yelling "ICE!", and if you're a centreman, I'll kick you out of the next draw you line up to take as well.

NOTHING pisses an official off more than players or coaches trying to make their calls for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post
I was really irritated and banged my stick blade on the ice as I scooted back to the defensive zone. They actually won possession and nearly scored on the play. After our goalie covered the puck I composed myself as much as I could and skated over to the ref asking why the icing was waved off. He told me that it was because we had 4 skaters in the defensive end.

I was flabbergasted. First of all, I was forechecking on the PK, and there couldn't have possibly been 4 men in the defensive end unless we had too many on the ice. Second of all, I've never heard of the number of players in the defensive end impacting an icing call. It was always my understanding that if the puck didn't pass anyone, and no one could have gotten to it before it crossed the goal line, it was icing. Period. Has anyone heard of this?
He may have miscounted how many players you had in your defensive zone, but if there are enough players in the area of the puck and nobody even makes an attempt to get to it, I am waving off that icing every time. Also, if the rest of your PK crew was on a line change, that waves off the icing as well as the players on the ice are opting for a change instead of playing the puck.

It also depends on how fast the puck is going. If I'm the linesman chasing the puck, in most cases if I get to the top of the circle before the puck crosses the goal line, I'm waving it off. I'll only call an icing where I'm catching up to the puck if the intent of the shot was nothing but icing.

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01-07-2009, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackjack View Post

We have no-touch icing so I eased up, threw my arm up, and yelled "ice! ice!".
I'm a bit confused, were you a referee?

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01-07-2009, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
As a linesman, I'd wave it off solely because you tried to show me up by raising your arm and yelling "ICE!", and if you're a centreman, I'll kick you out of the next draw you line up to take as well.

NOTHING pisses an official off more than players or coaches trying to make their calls for them.

It also depends on how fast the puck is going. If I'm the linesman chasing the puck, in most cases if I get to the top of the circle before the puck crosses the goal line, I'm waving it off. I'll only call an icing where I'm catching up to the puck if the intent of the shot was nothing but icing.
I can understand getting pissed about something but does that really entitle an on-ice official to act in a way contrary to the rules or in a vindictive manner? If you would in fact do as you state above you dont belong in the stripes.

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01-07-2009, 09:43 PM
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I can understand getting pissed about something but does that really entitle an on-ice official to act in a way contrary to the rules or in a vindictive manner? If you would in fact do as you state above you dont belong in the stripes.
What he said.

There is no excuse to call the game differently because of what a player said. I have never done that, nobody should.

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01-08-2009, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeD View Post
I can understand getting pissed about something but does that really entitle an on-ice official to act in a way contrary to the rules or in a vindictive manner? If you would in fact do as you state above you dont belong in the stripes.
If that's the case, then hundreds, if not into the thousands of officials out there officiating any kind of elite hockey (IE: Midget AAA and up), don't "belong in the stripes".

Some people really have no idea what happens on the ice during games. If you're a player out there showing up officials and you're not getting many calls, you shouldn't be wondering why. Whether anybody thinks it's ethical or not, it happens at all elite levels, right from Midget AAA to the NHL.

That said, I noticed you kept the area quoted about me beating the puck to the line. That is a criteria linesmen at high levels use to determine icing. If I'm catching up to the puck and/or beating the defenceman to the puck, it's not icing. Even if the shooter is intentionally icing the puck, the defenceman needs to make an effort.


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01-08-2009, 06:05 AM
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Gino 14
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Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
As a linesman, I'd wave it off solely because you tried to show me up by raising your arm and yelling "ICE!", and if you're a centreman, I'll kick you out of the next draw you line up to take as well.

NOTHING pisses an official off more than players or coaches trying to make their calls for them.
That's nothing I would ever admit to. Fortunately, I don't have to since I've never done it. And, throwing a player out on the following face-off is childish behavior at best. If you can't control the game by the rules you have no business being out there.

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01-10-2009, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Gino 14 View Post
That's nothing I would ever admit to. Fortunately, I don't have to since I've never done it. And, throwing a player out on the following face-off is childish behavior at best. If you can't control the game by the rules you have no business being out there.
Then I guess 9 out of 10 linesmen in pro/college/junior hockey have childish behaviour.

Like I said, at the elite levels, some people just have no idea what happens during a hockey game.

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01-10-2009, 10:25 PM
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I am also and official, and Stripes is correct. I would toss him from the draw too.

Just remember, players can be dicks, but refs can be bigger dicks.

Two years ago, a players intentionally cracked me in the shins off a faceoff, and he hasn't taken a draw from me since.

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01-11-2009, 08:40 PM
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Just remember, players can be dicks, but refs can be bigger dicks.
Refs can be dicks for no reason as well.

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01-11-2009, 08:50 PM
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ArGarBarGar
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Like what a lot of people said, you aren't the ref. Don't try to make calls for them.

I made it a habit to yell at a ref for a lot of my penalties and they put me in the box more often for it.

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01-12-2009, 12:34 AM
  #25
Stripes
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Refs can be dicks for no reason as well.
While officials are human too, a referee offering a player disrespect for no reason is something that seldom happens. Those guys are few and far between and the only officials who go anywhere to make a career out of it are the officials who are there for the players as much as they are to do something they love to do.

That said, I defend my actions in such situations as the one discussed here. If players disrespect the officials, they shouldn't expect any respect in return. However, every game is a new game. I don't hold grudges from one game to the next. I will give every player a chance to play his game. I only react to what is offered to me in terms of respect and disrespect from players in each game.

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