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Teams with no hope

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Old
01-10-2009, 04:06 PM
  #51
Poignant Discussion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booootthh View Post
I'm sad to see hockey have such uneducated fans.
Pretty brutal

All teams have hope folks, anyone that says different is being ignorant

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Old
01-10-2009, 04:17 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Florida has Jacques Martin as their GM (enough said)
And your point is what? Please, give me your extensive knowledge of what he has done for us? Maybe if you research it a little, you'd see that he has done FAR more good for this team than bad, and you might want to delete your post soon after.

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Old
01-10-2009, 04:17 PM
  #53
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If you want to talk about a team with no hope... look at Tampa

no matter what talent you have, if you have a **** management and ownership, you will go nowhere

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Old
01-10-2009, 04:37 PM
  #54
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Knowing full well that coming from a Habs' fan, it will be perceived as a biased opinion, I will still say that it's the Toronto Maple Leafs.

They don't have a good team to start with, as their record can attest.

Unlike the Chicago, Washington and Pittsburgh of a few years ago or the LA Kings of today, they simply don't have the good young stars up and coming to get them out of that hole. As a matter of fact, they are ranked by this very site in the bottom half in prospects in the entire NHL and that, counting Luke Schenn who's already on the team.

On top of that, they go get a GM who's better known for depleting his prospect pool for a quick fix than to build a winner from the ground up. The difference is that his only assets aren't prospects, but actual players on the team such as Kaberle (who has a NTC) and possibly Toskala.

I really don't see how this team will get out of the bottom for a few years at the very least.

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Old
01-10-2009, 04:39 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balance of Judgement View Post
Leafs, Islanders, Thrashers, Lightning, Kings, Panthers
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycro View Post
Right...because Burke uses the Trade Forum for our opinions on what a player is worth.
Leaf/Canuck/Panthers/whatever NHL team fans are the ones that seem to over-rate said players's value.
I'm guilty of this as well...but I'm pretty sure that Burke has a better handle on where the Leafs and the NHL wants to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangersFan88 View Post
it is natural mathematic law

some teams will die (in my thoughts atlanta and florida)

there are some teams stuck in no-mans-land

they suck bad and never get to the playoffs
and
they dont suck that much to get #1 picks and good picks

they will end up chocking
Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Panthers, Leafs, Thrashers, Islanders
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finaplex View Post
Teams with no future whatsoever ever:

Atlanta Thrashers ... (They have a team WHY?!)

New York Islanders ... (Time to go away)

Florida Panthers ... (This team is done)


If you guys actually think either the Leafs or Sens have no future, you're just being stupid. The Leafs now have some proper management in place with proper coaching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegwillnotwinthecup View Post
Leafs look consistently depressing. They'll need to tear it all down before anything is possible. I'm pretty sure Burke can get them back to respectability.

Despite St. Louis's abysmal record this year, they're stacked with talented young players.

This may be controversial, but Dallas may be on their way out of the limelight. Zubov and Modano are retiring soon, and who knows how effective Morrow will be after his knee injury.

Islanders are a mess. Panthers can't hold a core together. Atlanta has got some great, young talent in the system but their management is mentally handicapped.

LA, Phoenix, and the aforementioned Blackhawks are moving into the spotlight after years of suckage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJOSHIE09 View Post
Florida, no question. I don't know anyone who plays for Florida. Partly because of ignorance, partly because they don't have any good players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LedZeppelin View Post
Atlanta, Florida, NY islanders are all so poorly managed that they will continue to be pathetic until they overhaul the works
What a bunch of completely uninformed posts. Apparently none of you pay attention to the standings (1 point out of 8th spots with games in hand), the Panthers themselves, and certainly not it's prospect pool. Booth, Weiss, Horton, Ballard, Frolik, Matthias, Repik, Marksstrom, and Ellerby are all a few names who'd like to step up and say hi. Educate yourselves a bit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Florida has Jacques Martin as their GM (enough said)
And this is the least educated post of the lot. Martin filled a bare cupboard with the prospect pool. He traded away constant penalty troubles in Salei and Gratton for a pick that was Marksstrom and Skrastins (for Salei) who's been very solid while here. Olli wasn't leading the team and so much has come out about his time here, it's obvious why we "didn't get more," (see Nonis and Sutter's comments, also player comments as well), yet we still got Ballard, who signed a 6 year extension right away, and Boynton who's been solid. Ryno for McCabe and a pick, Instead of having to deal with situations like Luongo and currently Bouw's, he locked up Weiss, Horton, Olesz, and Frolik for at least a few years. Look for Booth to get locked up longterm next. Almost forgot about Matthias and some of the picks that brought us Vokoun for an injured Bertuzzi. Yeah...enough said.

There's more, he's been a good GM, a little research set against the history would tell you that. Hiring DeBoer has been one of hisbest moves, this guy gets the most of his players and demands accountability. Both were lacking before.


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Old
01-10-2009, 04:42 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Knowing full well that coming from a Habs' fan, it will be perceived as a biased opinion, I will still say that it's the Toronto Maple Leafs.

They don't have a good team to start with, as their record can attest.

Unlike the Chicago, Washington and Pittsburgh of a few years ago or the LA Kings of today, they simply don't have the good young stars up and coming to get them out of that hole. As a matter of fact, they are ranked by this very site in the bottom half in prospects in the entire NHL and that, counting Luke Schenn who's already on the team.

On top of that, they go get a GM who's better known for depleting his prospect pool for a quick fix than to build a winner from the ground up. The difference is that his only assets aren't prospects, but actual players on the team such as Kaberle (who has a NTC) and possibly Toskala.

I really don't see how this team will get out of the bottom for a few years at the very least.
Nice try. The Leafs are rated around the top 15 mark in the prospect pool. We have a young core present today who are leading us offensively and defensively (Stajan, Grabo, Schenn, White, etc) and prospects coming up (Stralman, Kulemin, Tlusty, Pogge) and other prospects who might have a shot if they continue their development paths (Stefanovich and Hayes).

Plus we are looking at a top 5 pick in the summer again.

But since you admitted yourelf, I won't be even bothering with you anymore.

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Old
01-10-2009, 04:45 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Nice try. The Leafs are rated around the top 15 mark in the prospect pool. We have a young core present today who are leading us offensively and defensively (Stajan, Grabo, Schenn, White, etc) and prospects coming up (Stralman, Kulemin, Tlusty, Pogge) and other prospects who might have a shot if they continue their development paths (Stefanovich and Hayes).

Plus we are looking at a top 5 pick in the summer again.

But since you admitted yourelf, I won't be even bothering with you anymore.
You should inform yourself before commenting on my posts as I do verify the information before posting, unlike you obviously. Hockey's Future ranks the Leafs 17th and that's including Luke Schenn who's already in the NHL. Take Schenn, their top prospect, out of the equation and you fall way down.

Proof just for you...

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Old
01-10-2009, 04:47 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
And this is the least educated post of the lot. Martin filled a bare cupboard with the prospect pool. He traded away constant penalty troubles in Salei and Gratton for a pick that was Marksstrom and Skrastins (for Salei) who's been very solid while here. Olli wasn't leading the team and so much has come out about his time here, it's obvious why we "didn't get more," (see Nonis and Sutter's comments, also player comments as well), yet we still got Ballard, who signed a 6 year extension right away, and Boynton who's been solid. Ryno for McCabe and a pick, Instead of having to deal with situations like Luongo and currently Bouw's, he locked up Weiss, Horton, Olesz, and Frolik for at least a few years. Look for Booth to get locked up longterm next. Almost forgot about Matthias and some of the picks that brought us Vokoun for an injured Bertuzzi. Yeah...enough said.

There's more, he's been a good GM, a little research set against the history would tell you that. Hiring DeBoer has been one of hisbest moves, this guy gets the most of his players and demands accountability. Both were lacking before.

I have to admit I was basing Martin of the trades he made (Luongo for example).

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Old
01-10-2009, 04:48 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
I have to admit I was basing Martin of the trades he made (Luongo for example).
Again, you need to educate yourself about the team a bit, he didn't trade Luongo...that was Keenan.

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Old
01-10-2009, 04:49 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangersFan88 View Post
it is natural mathematic law

some teams will die (in my thoughts atlanta and florida)

there are some teams stuck in no-mans-land

they suck bad and never get to the playoffs
and
they dont suck that much to get #1 picks and good picks

they will end up chocking
That was what the Rangers problem was those seven years. They couldnt make the playoffs but alot of times they would finish 9th through 12th place. They never got a top three pick

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Old
01-10-2009, 04:50 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
You should inform yourself before commenting on my posts as I do verify the information before posting, unlike you obviously. Hockey's Future ranks the Leafs 17th and that's including Luke Schenn who's already in the NHL. Take Schenn, their top prospect, out of the equation and you fall way down.

Proof just for you...
The Leafs were in the bottom ten the season before and improved to being around the average of this league. Leafs have to improve on alot and trading (Kaberle for young assets) and drafting (top 5 pick for the coming draft) are going to help.

However they will be in the basement of the league for coming seasons and that just means higher draft picks and players to build around.

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Old
01-10-2009, 04:59 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Section311 View Post
That was what the Rangers problem was those seven years. They couldnt make the playoffs but alot of times they would finish 9th through 12th place. They never got a top three pick
The problem with the Rangers is that they viewed their prospect pool as a means to trade for NHL ready playoff performers every trade deadline.

In a 3 year span in the late 80's early 90's they drafted Doug Weight, Tony Amonte, Mattais Norstrom, and Sergei Zubov. I believe they traded all of them away for playoff pushes. They also traded Marc Savard who they drafted in the mid 90's.

The Rangers had more than enough high end talent coming in via the draft to be an elite team.

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Old
01-10-2009, 05:06 PM
  #63
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Why all the votes for Florida? If 1 point back with a game in hand equals "no hope" then they might as well call the rest of the season off and start the playoffs tomorrow.

I mean..... really?

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Old
01-10-2009, 05:46 PM
  #64
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The Thrashers and Isles are already rebuilding if i'm not mistaken.

I'm pretty pleased with our start

Bogosian
Little
Enstrom
Esposito
Pavelec
Leveille

After that we will likely get a better return for Kovalchuk than we did for Hossa so you can add a couple more quality pieces in when it happens.

Then we are likely getting a top three pick this year (hopefully Tavares or Hedman. I like to call it the Penguins approach. Suck and suck until you get talent. Our future isn't as hopeless as people are saying.


Last edited by ArVeeDee: 01-10-2009 at 05:53 PM.
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Old
01-10-2009, 05:48 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murderlizer View Post
Lightning.

That organization is a circus.
Still bitter I see... wow.

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Old
01-10-2009, 05:51 PM
  #66
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People here are way too hard on the Thrashers. Yeah the ownership sideshow is 2nd only to Tampa, and let's not start on Wadell, but the organization isn't looking that bad talent-wise. They have what could be a stud d-man in a few years in Bogosian, an emerging star in Little, and a 2 quality goalies in Lethonen and Pavelec. If they get a decent return for Kovalchuck at the deadline, they're only a year or two from play-off calibre.

Edit: ArVeeDee beat me to it, and I trust his view of the Thrashers organization way more than my outsider's perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArVeeDee View Post
The Thrashers and Isles are already rebuilding if i'm not mistaken.

I'm pretty pleased with our start

Bogosian
Little
Enstrom
Esposito
Pavelec
Leveille

After that we will likely get a better return for Kovalchuk than we did for Hossa so you can a couple more quality pieces in when it happens.

Then we are likely getting a top three pick this year (hopefully Tavares or Hedman. I like to call it the Penguins approach. Suck and suck until you get talent. Our future isn't as hopeless as people are saying.

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Old
01-10-2009, 06:00 PM
  #67
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Atlanta, Toronto and the New York Islanders.

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Old
01-10-2009, 06:02 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Jarrko Ruttu View Post
The Maple Leafs. They even spelled the team's name wrong.
Hilarious considering you can't even spell your username right.

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Old
01-10-2009, 06:09 PM
  #69
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Toronto.

Their farm team is weak (The Hockey News rated them one of the lowest in their last ratings) and they keep finishing in the 9 - 10 range (and it looks like they'll be around there again this season) which is the worst place to finish. If you're going to miss the playoffs then you need to really miss and get a good draft position.

Everyone talks about what a good job Fletcher did as interim GM but IMO he traded away way to many draft picks. The leaves have traded away quite a few draft picks under Fletcher and IMO they should have been stock piling as many draft picks as possible instead of trading any away.

For years the leaves have traded away pick after pick and that's why they're in the situation that they're in now.

Phoenix would get a mention too, but they won't exist after this season.

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01-10-2009, 06:13 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
Toronto.

Their farm team is weak (The Hockey News rated them one of the lowest in their last ratings) and they keep finishing in the 9 - 10 range (and it looks like they'll be around there again this season) which is the worst place to finish. If you're going to miss the playoffs then you need to really miss and get a good draft position.

Everyone talks about what a good job Fletcher did as interim GM but IMO he traded away way to many draft picks. The leaves have traded away quite a few draft picks under Fletcher and IMO they should have been stock piling as many draft picks as possible instead of trading any away.

For years the leaves have traded away pick after pick and that's why they're in the situation that they're in now.

Phoenix would get a mention too, but they won't exist after this season.
I dont know about Phoenix. I think they have the right nucleus with Turris, Mueller, and Hanzal, just to name a few. If anything, they might not have any type of hope in Phoenix, but they have a pretty good prospect pool.

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Old
01-10-2009, 06:15 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
Toronto.

Their farm team is weak (The Hockey News rated them one of the lowest in their last ratings) and they keep finishing in the 9 - 10 range (and it looks like they'll be around there again this season) which is the worst place to finish. If you're going to miss the playoffs then you need to really miss and get a good draft position.

Everyone talks about what a good job Fletcher did as interim GM but IMO he traded away way to many draft picks. The leaves have traded away quite a few draft picks under Fletcher and IMO they should have been stock piling as many draft picks as possible instead of trading any away.

For years the leaves have traded away pick after pick and that's why they're in the situation that they're in now.

Phoenix would get a mention too, but they won't exist after this season.
1) You read The Hockey News
2) Learn how to spell
3) Any draft picks traded by Fletcher were insignificant and the Schenn trade hosed the Islanders
4) The Leafs finished 23rd last year, big boy.
5) They are 24th right now, 9 points out of a playoff spot, and have been sinking since the start of the season yet they are going to finish 9-10th in the East hahaha

You're trying hard but you need to try harder.

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Old
01-10-2009, 06:30 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
Toronto.

Their farm team is weak (The Hockey News rated them one of the lowest in their last ratings) and they keep finishing in the 9 - 10 range (and it looks like they'll be around there again this season) which is the worst place to finish. If you're going to miss the playoffs then you need to really miss and get a good draft position.

Everyone talks about what a good job Fletcher did as interim GM but IMO he traded away way to many draft picks. The leaves have traded away quite a few draft picks under Fletcher and IMO they should have been stock piling as many draft picks as possible instead of trading any away.

For years the leaves have traded away pick after pick and that's why they're in the situation that they're in now.

Phoenix would get a mention too, but they won't exist after this season.
Boston hasn't even won a playoff series in this new millenium. Most of the people that hate the Leafs seem to cheer for less than stellar teams.

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Old
01-10-2009, 06:32 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Florida has Jacques Martin as their GM (enough said)
This made me LOL.

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Old
01-10-2009, 06:39 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
You sir, are a genius. I had no idea that a team who is loaded with offensive potential right now is going to be awesome in a year or two.

08-09 Coyotes = 05-06/06-07 Penguins
?

I don't see a Crosby or Malkin on the Coyotes roster, do you?

The Yotes remind me more of the Kings before the lockout, without the constant injuries.

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Old
01-10-2009, 06:48 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by LAX attack View Post
If you want to talk about a team with no hope... look at Tampa

no matter what talent you have, if you have a **** management and ownership, you will go nowhere
Kind of funny coming from a kings fan. At least Tampa has increased the prospect pool for the future (extremely thin at forward, had no puck moving d men, have a lot of goaltenders with strong potential).

Er, I should add, so have the kings, but it amazes me they aren't playing any better with all that talent right now. I guess that goes for both teams.


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