HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Blueshirts, Zherdev Talk New Contract

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-13-2009, 11:03 AM
  #51
McRanger
Registered User
 
McRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,792
vCash: 500
I don't think Zherdev has much leverage. Russia's league is in deeper trouble than anything over here and his should be a rather low key offseason, especially with RFAs.

McRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 11:07 AM
  #52
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I know that people are in love with this kid and dying to keep him, but Sather should be patient. The FA market is really strong when it comes to forwards. That means that teams might see a guy like Zherdev as a second or third option as there will be a lot of guys out there that they could sign without having to relinquish picks to get them.

I'd hate to see Sather set the market by signing a RFA.

Wait it out. People complain about the money spent in Drury and Gomez, well Zherdev is another inconsistent forward albeit an immensely talented one.
The only way this is true is if Sather signs Zherdev to some ridiculous amount. If it's reasonable, then Sather should sign him sooner rather than later.

I also don't think that the Rangers traded for Zherdev just to let him walk after 1 season, or to view him as expendable after 1 season. They want to keep him, no doubt.

I think if they could get him between $4-5 mill then that's fine. He's making $3.25 now so he's going to want a raise of some sort, and if he finishes with his highest career point totals, he has a case for a decent raise at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
You're leaving out both the change in the economy (and therefore cap projections) and, more importantly, the RFA vs. UFA factor. I think we can get it done for $4MM per or less (depending on number of years).

Here's hoping!
I'm not sure that the change in the economy is going to affect what players are asking for, at least not yet. There's no reason for them to say "oh I know times are tough, I'll ask for less money". Hell no, if anything, they'll want more money to be financially secure. It's only when teams can't/won't pay them higher salaries that they'll ask for less.

Of course, that's why Sather shouldn't overpay now, but again, if the price is reasonable, then getting a deal done now makes sense.

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 11:20 AM
  #53
we want cup
We do not Sow
 
we want cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 10,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I'm not sure that the change in the economy is going to affect what players are asking for, at least not yet. There's no reason for them to say "oh I know times are tough, I'll ask for less money". Hell no, if anything, they'll want more money to be financially secure. It's only when teams can't/won't pay them higher salaries that they'll ask for less.
But with the economic problems, if/when the cap goes down, every cap dollar becomes more valuable. A 5 million dollar contract when the cap is $56 million is different from the same contract when the cap is $50 million, value-wise.

we want cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 11:21 AM
  #54
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
You're leaving out both the change in the economy (and therefore cap projections) and, more importantly, the RFA vs. UFA factor. I think we can get it done for $4MM per or less (depending on number of years).

Here's hoping!
Staal just signed for $4 mil per season. Zherdev has longer history, and is more skilled. I think Zherdev will get more than Staal. But Staal's salary just set the table for this years RFA signings.

I think zherdev will get about $5mil/year for 5 years. That would let him become a ufa at 29 (i think) which is perfect to get that one last big contract.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 11:26 AM
  #55
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
I really don't see how anyone here thinks Zherdev will be making more than Boyes. Are you guys kidding me? We're talking about a 40-goal scorer. Those are not easy to come by, and he's making 4 mill.

I love Zherdev, and he might end up being the better player overall between the two, but a 40-goal scorer is extremely valuable in this league.

At MOST, I could see him making 4.5 mill.

Then again, this is Sather we're talking about, so I'm sure I'm wrong

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 11:29 AM
  #56
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I really don't see how anyone here thinks Zherdev will be making more than Boyes. Are you guys kidding me? We're talking about a 40-goal scorer. Those are not easy to come by, and he's making 4 mill.

I love Zherdev, and he might end up being the better player overall between the two, but a 40-goal scorer is extremely valuable in this league.

At MOST, I could see him making 4.5 mill.

Then again, this is Sather we're talking about, so I'm sure I'm wrong

when did boyes sign his contract? and what did his stats look like before he signed? I really don't know these answers not being saracastic.

I think you have too look at what he did when he signed the contract not what he did after he signed the contract.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 11:31 AM
  #57
McRanger
Registered User
 
McRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I really don't see how anyone here thinks Zherdev will be making more than Boyes. Are you guys kidding me? We're talking about a 40-goal scorer. Those are not easy to come by, and he's making 4 mill.

I love Zherdev, and he might end up being the better player overall between the two, but a 40-goal scorer is extremely valuable in this league.

At MOST, I could see him making 4.5 mill.

Then again, this is Sather we're talking about, so I'm sure I'm wrong
Sather has a history of overpaying RFA's? If anything he has a history of being unnecessarily stingy with them.

McRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 11:33 AM
  #58
Melrose_Jr.
Registered User
 
Melrose_Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Providence, RI
Country: United States
Posts: 10,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I also don't think that the Rangers traded for Zherdev just to let him walk after 1 season, or to view him as expendable after 1 season. They want to keep him, no doubt.
He'll still be Ranger property. The Rangers will be compensated for his loss in every possible scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I'm not sure that the change in the economy is going to affect what players are asking for, at least not yet.
But it certainly will affect what GM's offer.

Melrose_Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 11:33 AM
  #59
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
But with the economic problems, if/when the cap goes down, every cap dollar becomes more valuable. A 5 million dollar contract when the cap is $56 million is different from the same contract when the cap is $50 million, value-wise.
But the cap isn't changing all that much yet.

In a year or two, I think things could be different, but I don't think salaries will change too much just yet.

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 11:42 AM
  #60
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Sather has a history of overpaying RFA's? If anything he has a history of being unnecessarily stingy with them.
He might not have a history of overpaying RFA's, but he has a history of making poor decisions more often than he does making good decisions, IMO.

After the Gomez/Drury/Redden signings nothing would surprise me with this dude.

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 11:48 AM
  #61
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
He'll still be Ranger property. The Rangers will be compensated for his loss in every possible scenario.
My point is that I feel pretty confident the Rangers see Zherdev as an important key to this teams future, every bit as important as guys like Dubinsky and Staal. So I think they'll want to get him locked up for a good while, and I don't have a problem with that as long as it's not for $6+ mill or something

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 11:49 AM
  #62
McRanger
Registered User
 
McRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
He might not have a history of overpaying RFA's, but he has a history of making poor decisions more often than he does making good decisions, IMO.

After the Gomez/Drury/Redden signings nothing would surprise me with this dude.
Is there any move Sather could make that you would actually be happy with?

McRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 11:54 AM
  #63
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Is there any move Sather could make that you would actually be happy with?
Sure. I loved, absolutely loved the Zherdev trade. In my opinion, it was a total ripoff. I think a lot of you guys really overrated Tyutin.

I also loved the move to jump up and get Marc Staal. Great trade, great decision. Drafting Dubinsky, Callahan, getting Girardi. All good moves.

But, those good moves are overshadowed by the fact that in 8 years of tenure leading the team, that's pretty much all we've gotten here (I don't believe discovering Lundqvist should be credited to Sather). It isn't much, especially after the first part of his tenure was such a spectacular failure. And now, as I see it, he's put this team squarely on the path to mediocrity, and painted himself into an extremely undesirable corner, totally mismanaging the salary cap.

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 11:59 AM
  #64
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
when did boyes sign his contract? and what did his stats look like before he signed? I really don't know these answers not being saracastic.

I think you have too look at what he did when he signed the contract not what he did after he signed the contract.
Boyes signed his deal in March of '08. He's making $4 mill for the next 4 years. He finished the season with 43 goals and 65 points. He's on pace for 38 and 70 this year. He has a horrific +/- but his team is in last place and has tons of injuries, including their best d-man this season.

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 12:04 PM
  #65
McRanger
Registered User
 
McRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Sure. I loved, absolutely loved the Zherdev trade. In my opinion, it was a total ripoff. I think a lot of you guys really overrated Tyutin.

I also loved the move to jump up and get Marc Staal. Great trade, great decision. Drafting Dubinsky, Callahan, getting Girardi. All good moves.

But, those good moves are overshadowed by the fact that in 8 years of tenure leading the team, that's pretty much all we've gotten here (I don't believe discovering Lundqvist should be credited to Sather). It isn't much, especially after the first part of his tenure was such a spectacular failure. And now, as I see it, he's put this team squarely on the path to mediocrity, and painted himself into an extremely undesirable corner, totally mismanaging the salary cap.
I somewhat agree with what you are saying, but do you remember what the team was like when Sather got here? The situation has improved IMMENSELY. Both on the ice and in the system. Its similar to the problem people have with Renney. He may not be a perfect coach (sometimes his decisions are mind boggling) but he is a good coach and is a massive improvement over what we have had for years.

With all the complaining about Sather killing our Salary cap, we have yet to even get burned by it. What has Gomez, Drury or Reddens contracts stopped us from doing? Who knows what happens this spring or the organization has planned for this summer. This summer will be the big test.

McRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 12:05 PM
  #66
Celestial Black
Registered User
 
Celestial Black's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 6,824
vCash: 500
Hope they can get it done by next week.

Celestial Black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 12:06 PM
  #67
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Seven years 40 million or more. He is better then Horcoff, he is Jagr replacement.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 12:06 PM
  #68
Melrose_Jr.
Registered User
 
Melrose_Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Providence, RI
Country: United States
Posts: 10,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
My point is that I feel pretty confident the Rangers see Zherdev as an important key to this teams future, every bit as important as guys like Dubinsky and Staal. So I think they'll want to get him locked up for a good while, and I don't have a problem with that as long as it's not for $6+ mill or something
I don't disagree, but I wouldn't say I'm confident in those feelings. Whether he it was by accident or by design, the "big 5" are the keys to the future for Sather. Young players who need big raises just don't fit into the financial forecast, so if they can't be paid, they need to be swapped for a cheaper asset.

Melrose_Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 12:07 PM
  #69
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,043
vCash: 500
Nah, I don't believe that's the case. Don't ask me exactly how, but I think that Sather will find a way to keep the young players he wants, as long as they are actually producing and proving themselves to be important parts of the future.

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 12:12 PM
  #70
Banks3rdLineCenter
 
Banks3rdLineCenter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 2,052
vCash: 500
Zherdev at 5 mil or under per year needs to get done. Anything above 5 mil and I think we're getting into dangerous ground. And as you can see, I'm a big fan of the guy.

Banks3rdLineCenter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 12:18 PM
  #71
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I really don't see how anyone here thinks Zherdev will be making more than Boyes. Are you guys kidding me? We're talking about a 40-goal scorer. Those are not easy to come by, and he's making 4 mill.

I love Zherdev, and he might end up being the better player overall between the two, but a 40-goal scorer is extremely valuable in this league.

At MOST, I could see him making 4.5 mill.
Completely agreed - especially since we're no longer in an escalating cap environment (which was my earlier point about the economy).

Good Lord, I agreed with Sting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Then again, this is Sather we're talking about, so I'm sure I'm wrong
Ah good, we're back to normal. Honestly, Sting, I think you overstate your disagreements with Slats - most especially as it relates to Slats' likelihood of overpaying a RFA. You're basing all of this on the contracts he's handed out to UFAs. If he had never signed any of the big four, it appears that you would approve on the vast majority of the moves he's made. Furthermore, if you look at all the RFA contracts he's handed out (Tyutin, Prucha, Girardi) they're all good deals.

BrooklynRangersFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 12:21 PM
  #72
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Boyes signed his deal in March of '08. He's making $4 mill for the next 4 years. He finished the season with 43 goals and 65 points. He's on pace for 38 and 70 this year. He has a horrific +/- but his team is in last place and has tons of injuries, including their best d-man this season.
ok. but look at the years before that. he went from 26 down to 17. that's why he was kept at only $4mil. But remember that Staal just got a $4mil deal and he just had 42 pts and 28 pts. That's POINTS. he just set this years RFA mark. Staals asinine deal is really going to screw up the market for RFA's. Staal is still only on a pace for 45 pts. But agents will use his deal (not Boyes') to make their case.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 12:22 PM
  #73
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Completely agreed - especially since we're no longer in an escalating cap environment (which was my earlier point about the economy).

Good Lord, I agreed with Sting.



Ah good, we're back to normal. Honestly, Sting, I think you overstate your disagreements with Slats - most especially as it relates to Slats' likelihood of overpaying a RFA. You're basing all of this on the contracts he's handed out to UFAs. If he had never signed any of the big four, it appears that you would approve on the vast majority of the moves he's made. Furthermore, if you look at all the RFA contracts he's handed out (Tyutin, Prucha, Girardi) they're all good deals.

I don't think that was a good deal. Afterall most people wanted to get rid of him (including myself) b/c he was making tooo much money for what he provided.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 12:24 PM
  #74
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
I don't think that was a good deal. Afterall most people wanted to get rid of him (including myself) b/c he was making tooo much money for what he provided.
It was a damn good deal based on Prucha's numbers at the time.

Whether or not Prucha then went downhill/was set back by Shanny & Renney is a different issue entirely.

BrooklynRangersFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2009, 12:25 PM
  #75
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
I somewhat agree with what you are saying, but do you remember what the team was like when Sather got here? The situation has improved IMMENSELY. Both on the ice and in the system. Its similar to the problem people have with Renney. He may not be a perfect coach (sometimes his decisions are mind boggling) but he is a good coach and is a massive improvement over what we have had for years.

With all the complaining about Sather killing our Salary cap, we have yet to even get burned by it. What has Gomez, Drury or Reddens contracts stopped us from doing? Who knows what happens this spring or the organization has planned for this summer. This summer will be the big test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Ah good, we're back to normal. Honestly, Sting, I think you overstate your disagreements with Slats - most especially as it relates to Slats' likelihood of overpaying a RFA. You're basing all of this on the contracts he's handed out to UFAs. If he had never signed any of the big four, it appears that you would approve on the vast majority of the moves he's made. Furthermore, if you look at all the RFA contracts he's handed out (Tyutin, Prucha, Girardi) they're all good deals.
I can answer you both at once.

BRF, you say I agree with the majority of moves other than the big four, and that's kind of true, KIND OF, but the big four to me is a sign that the "buy your way to the top" philosophy has never left this franchise, and that is a tremendous mistake in judgment. Maybe that's Dolan's influence, maybe it isn't. The bottom line is Sather is in charge, and I think he is taking the team in the wrong direction. He is taking the team towards years of mediocre regular seasons and early playoff round exits.

A team where the best forward is Scott Gomez is not going to win any Stanley Cups, and a team that pays Scott Gomez, Chris Drury, and Wade Redden a combined 21 million is not going to possibly be able to afford actual star players.

Now McRanger, you say we don't know what Sather has planned. That's true. If he surprises me, which obviously I hope he does, I want what's best for the team, then I'll be the first to salute him. But I don't see how having 3 of the 5 worst contracts in the NHL could possibly help you do.

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.