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Old
01-15-2009, 08:22 AM
  #151
Levitate
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Yeah I think it's silly to compare Zherdev to guys like Ovechkin and then feel disappointed because he's not leading the league in points.

I don't think it's for lack of trying, but he just doesn't have the instincts that someone like Ovechkin does. That's what really separates good players from the superstars, not just talent. And again, I feel like it's not a case where he's just not trying hard enough, or doesn't care enough, it's just a mindset that he doesn't have and it's no use banging our heads against a wall because of it.

He's not really an engima, he' s just a talented player who lacks the instincts it takes to put him into the category of superstar. In the meantime, he can probably put up 70-90 points and be a productive hockey player, and that's fine with me. He doesn't have to be a superstar to be an important part of the team.

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01-15-2009, 10:47 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Yeah I think it's silly to compare Zherdev to guys like Ovechkin and then feel disappointed because he's not leading the league in points.

I don't think it's for lack of trying, but he just doesn't have the instincts that someone like Ovechkin does. That's what really separates good players from the superstars, not just talent. And again, I feel like it's not a case where he's just not trying hard enough, or doesn't care enough, it's just a mindset that he doesn't have and it's no use banging our heads against a wall because of it.

He's not really an engima, he' s just a talented player who lacks the instincts it takes to put him into the category of superstar. In the meantime, he can probably put up 70-90 points and be a productive hockey player, and that's fine with me. He doesn't have to be a superstar to be an important part of the team.
I think you're wrong. You look at what he does now and make your conclusions. In fact Zherdev is limited in his production by his work assignment. That is done intentionally to reduce his value and sign him long term cheap. Same was attempted in CBJ, but he didn't sign long term with them. I don't know if Rangers sign him on Sather's terms, but he will be a Ranger at some point.
Zherdev will be a superstar in this league eventually. That doesn't mean he will be better then Ovechkin, but he would be at Malkin level pretty soon. He is as good as Crosby already.

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01-15-2009, 10:56 AM
  #153
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don't believe the conspiracy theory, 94. Zherdev is playing with Dubi now in the same role in which he broke out at the beginning of the season. He's back there now because Renney is looking for Zherdev to break out again.

And if there was a conspiracy theory, Cally wouldn't be playing with Gomez, which again is in hopes that Gomez will get going which would benefit Cally.

Zherdev is an inconsistent player. He was in Columbus, and he still is today. He's still a young player, although is getting to the point where you can't say that the reason he's inconsistent is because he's young.

We need to realize that sometimes a highly skilled guy cannot play at a high level for 20 minutes per night, 82 games per year. And some fold under pressure, etc. Zherdev hasn't showed that special talent that Crosby, Ovechkin, Datsyuk and others have - which is to make the opposition fear you each time you're on the ice, because he's not a threat everytime he's on the ice.

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01-15-2009, 11:09 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I think you're wrong. You look at what he does now and make your conclusions. In fact Zherdev is limited in his production by his work assignment. That is done intentionally to reduce his value and sign him long term cheap. Same was attempted in CBJ, but he didn't sign long term with them. I don't know if Rangers sign him on Sather's terms, but he will be a Ranger at some point.
Zherdev will be a superstar in this league eventually. That doesn't mean he will be better then Ovechkin, but he would be at Malkin level pretty soon. He is as good as Crosby already.
Yes, what's more likely, that Zherdev's a talented player who just doesn't quite have all the tools to be a superstar in the league, or that the Rangers are purposefully holding down his production (and hurting the entire team) so that they can sign him to a cheap contract.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm let me think about that

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01-15-2009, 11:21 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I think you're wrong. You look at what he does now and make your conclusions. In fact Zherdev is limited in his production by his work assignment. That is done intentionally to reduce his value and sign him long term cheap. Same was attempted in CBJ, but he didn't sign long term with them. I don't know if Rangers sign him on Sather's terms, but he will be a Ranger at some point.
Zherdev will be a superstar in this league eventually. That doesn't mean he will be better then Ovechkin, but he would be at Malkin level pretty soon. He is as good as Crosby already.
This is literally as ridiculous of a post as I've ever seen.

First the off the wall conspiracy theory that the Rangers are purposely holding down Zherdev's production in order to sign him cheap...and then the incredible statement that Zherdev will be as good as Malkin and is already as good as Crosby.

Zherdev is what he is...a very talented player that will produce at a point per game clip for a long time. He doesnt possess the instincts or the consistency to be bunched in a group with Ovechkin, Malkin, and Crosby.

Those guys will be all-timers by the time everything is said and done.

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01-15-2009, 11:29 AM
  #156
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<3 Zherdev

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01-15-2009, 12:06 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
don't believe the conspiracy theory, 94.
No one conspires against Zherdev. But hockey is no different then any other business and people relations are the same. When you signed two 7 million players, you want first of the proof that you're not a moron. Your coach understand that and tries to get your terrible signings to produce for you. That was the primary objectives for Renney for the last two seasons. The rest, including Zherdev production, is secondary. Last season Jargr would bail the Drumez out. This season from time to time when Drumez were dead beyond recuprication and team was sinking Renney would get back to Zherdev-Dubi duo for help, but pleasing the boss is the most important for any employee, so Zherdev was told to play defence, which he does well. That is how Zherdev LOOKS inconsistent. He is inconsistent because his job is changing. Should Gomez be traded for Shanahan or be gone somehow else and Zherdev be told "You are the man", then he would be playing on 1st line with Dubi and Naslund and put up points like Ovechkin or any other top player already signed.

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01-15-2009, 12:17 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Zherdev is what he is...a very talented player that will produce at a point per game clip for a long time. He doesnt possess the instincts or the consistency to be bunched in a group with Ovechkin, Malkin, and Crosby.
What is so special about Crosby? Is he exiting to watch? Is he difficult to defend against? Does he go through defenders with ease? Does he make the players around him better? Even if you biased enough and answer "Yes", you should realize that Sidney is no Ovechkin. But Ovechkin is the best hockey player ever. The distance between him and Crosby is huge. There is the room for Zherdev in between the two. The only limitation for him is his body.

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01-15-2009, 12:30 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
What is so special about Crosby? Is he exiting to watch? Is he difficult to defend against? Does he go through defenders with ease? Does he make the players around him better? Even if you biased enough and answer "Yes", you should realize that Sidney is no Ovechkin. But Ovechkin is the best hockey player ever. The distance between him and Crosby is huge. There is the room for Zherdev in between the two. The only limitation for him is his body.
Is that you Alex?

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01-15-2009, 12:41 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Yes, what's more likely, that Zherdev's a talented player who just doesn't quite have all the tools to be a superstar in the league, or that the Rangers are purposefully holding down his production (and hurting the entire team) so that they can sign him to a cheap contract.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm let me think about that
Agree totally with your post to the poster you quoted. Zherdev has crazy sticks skills and a good offensive game but he lacks defense. He was really inconsistent in Columbus and he defensive woes showed up alot. With the rangers, he still has his defensive issues but they are not exploited as much since he is playing with a better team that covers up for his mistakes at times.

To think a team would hold back his production to sign him cheap, is crazy. You play to win not sign players cheap. I must ask 94now, do you have anymore of what you are smoking b/c it seems to be really good.

I am not a ranger fan but i have feeling his agent is looking at a ranger of 5-6 million and his agent does have some bargaining chips if he is the leading point guy on the team at the end of year since you know he is going to compare his contract to other contracts on your team. IMO

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01-15-2009, 12:48 PM
  #161
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What the hell are you going on about 94now

The difference between Ovechkin and Zherdev is massive right now. Ovechkin is the best player in the league. Zherdev is probably not even in the top 30

As for him compared to Crosby, I'd say they're almost even in terms of skill, except one is a goal scorer and other is a playmaker. Ovechkin is much more passionate and physical though, hence why he's so fun to watch. He doesn't whine incessantly like Crosby does every time he faces adversity, he goes out and punishes players by throwing massive hits

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Agree totally with your post to the poster you quoted. Zherdev has crazy sticks skills and a good offensive game but he lacks defense. He was really inconsistent in Columbus and he defensive woes showed up alot. With the rangers, he still has his defensive issues but they are not exploited as much since he is playing with a better team that covers up for his mistakes at times.
I'm actually very impressed with his defense. Compared to anyone else on this team he doesn't have defensive issues.

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01-15-2009, 01:04 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
What is so special about Crosby? Is he exiting to watch? Is he difficult to defend against? Does he go through defenders with ease? Does he make the players around him better? Even if you biased enough and answer "Yes", you should realize that Sidney is no Ovechkin. But Ovechkin is the best hockey player ever. The distance between him and Crosby is huge. There is the room for Zherdev in between the two. The only limitation for him is his body.
Dude even I am someone who loves Zherdev and his talent, while also believing Crosby is exceedingly over-hyped. But what you are saying is absurd! Zherdev>Crosby? Come on lets get back to reality here.

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01-15-2009, 01:38 PM
  #163
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Dude even I am someone who loves Zherdev and his talent, while also believing Crosby is exceedingly over-hyped. But what you are saying is absurd! Zherdev>Crosby? Come on lets get back to reality here.
I didn't say he is. I think he will be and the two are comparable as of now. Let's leave it there. No sense to argue. The time will show. Zherdev must get Carter deal or better.

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01-15-2009, 01:43 PM
  #164
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I think in his prime Zherdev could maybe be a 35-40 goal, 70-85 point guy. I doubt he'd ever be a top 5 in the league kind of guy though.

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01-15-2009, 01:45 PM
  #165
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Wow this thread has taken an insane turn.

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01-15-2009, 01:46 PM
  #166
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I didn't say he is. I think he will be and the two are comparable as of now. Let's leave it there. No sense to argue. The time will show. Zherdev must get Carter deal or better.
No sense to argue that Zherdev is as good as Sidney Crosby? You're damn right there isn't.

In other news, there's no sense in arguing that I'm the King of England.

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01-15-2009, 01:55 PM
  #167
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No sense to argue that Zherdev is as good as Sidney Crosby? You're damn right there isn't.

In other news, there's no sense in arguing that I'm the King of England.
Any idiot can be king of england, bad analogy. Sidney is an above average forward, but not top 5 in my book. Nieither is Zherdev. Yet, I wouldn't trade Nick for Crosby, would you?

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01-15-2009, 02:01 PM
  #168
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Any idiot can be king of england, bad analogy. Sidney is an above average forward, but not in top 5 in my book. Yet, I wouldn't trade Nick for Crosby, would you?
Um, what?!?

So the 21-year old superstar who has a Hart and an Art Ross on his resume is nothing more than "above average," and apparently I might be the King of England because anyone can be. My head hurts for you.

And not only would I trade Zherdev for Crosby if it was offered, I'd fall to my knees and thank God that we've managed to benefit from Pittsburgh being mind-numbingly stupid. And so would every other Ranger fan with an iota of common sense.

A word of advice: as Chandler Bing once said, you have to stop the Q-tip when you feel resistance.


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01-15-2009, 02:12 PM
  #169
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Um, what?!?

So the 21-year old superstar who has a Hart and an Art Ross on his resume is nothing more than "above average,"
I watch almost every Pittsburgh game (missed last night). Crosby wont win anything this season. Zherdev is Rangers MVP, while Malkin is more valuable for Penguins then Crosby.

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01-15-2009, 02:22 PM
  #170
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Any idiot can be king of england, bad analogy. Sidney is an above average forward, but not top 5 in my book. Nieither is Zherdev. Yet, I wouldn't trade Nick for Crosby, would you?
It is becoming clear to me that 94now is pulling everyone's leg, and that we'd be best served by not paying him any further attention. On the off chance that I am mistake, and you are in fact serious with these posts, you have completely gone off the deep end.

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01-15-2009, 02:23 PM
  #171
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I watch almost every Pittsburgh game (missed last night). Crosby wont win anything this season. Zherdev is Rangers MVP, while Malkin is more valuable for Penguins then Crosby.
Even if that were true, Malkin is more valuable because, like Crosby, he's a top-5 player in the world. Zherdev is the most valuable forward on the Rangers (Lundqvist is the team MVP), but that doesn't make him anywhere near as good as Crosby.

And for all this talk about Zherdev somehow becoming better than him one day, I might add that he's also three years older than Crosby.

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01-15-2009, 02:24 PM
  #172
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It is becoming clear to me that 94now is pulling everyone's leg, and that we'd be best served by not paying him any further attention. On the off chance that I am mistake, and you are in fact serious with these posts, you have completely gone off the deep end.
I'm inclined to agree with you. I promise to stop feeding the bears.

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01-15-2009, 02:24 PM
  #173
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I watch almost every Pittsburgh game (missed last night). Crosby wont win anything this season. Zherdev is Rangers MVP, while Malkin is more valuable for Penguins then Crosby.
that still doesn't take away the fact that Crosby is one of the three best Hockey players in the world, avgs over a ppg and is one of the best passers in the game. Honestly as much as i hate Crosby (and I really really really hate him) he is still an amazing player who would instantly make this a much much better team.

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01-15-2009, 02:24 PM
  #174
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The argument that Zherdev is not feared is wrong in my opinion. He is not on a high flying team like some of the players mentioned here, Ovie's team is constantly scoring high in games and getting scored on as well.

And watch the games, When Z has the puck all the defenders are taking stock of where he is. People realize leaving him alone is a bad idea. Does he deserve a raise...no , he should get slightly more than he's making now until he can proove he deserves more.

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01-15-2009, 02:38 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyLikesHockey View Post
The argument that Zherdev is not feared is wrong in my opinion. He is not on a high flying team like some of the players mentioned here, Ovie's team is constantly scoring high in games and getting scored on as well.

And watch the games, When Z has the puck all the defenders are taking stock of where he is. People realize leaving him alone is a bad idea. Does he deserve a raise...no , he should get slightly more than he's making now until he can proove he deserves more.
His salary of $3.25M is going to go up more than slightly, whether you think he deserves it or not.

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