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Blueshirts, Zherdev Talk New Contract

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Old
01-15-2009, 03:55 PM
  #176
94now
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
that still doesn't take away the fact that Crosby is one of the three best Hockey players in the world, avgs over a ppg and is one of the best passers in the game. Honestly as much as i hate Crosby (and I really really really hate him) he is still an amazing player who would instantly make this a much much better team.
I don't hate Crosby, but neither do I admire him. Unlike many posters here who make their point of view based on what they read in papers or (more likely) hear in other media, I try to look on things without predisposition. Crosby is a good player, but he is not living up to expectations. He is not a new TGO. No only that, he is no Lemeux, no Messer, not even Lecavalier. He wasn't same Sydney after his ankle injury. May be it will take time for him to prove me wrong, but as of now he is in the same group as Zherdev, Carter, Getzlaf and some others of the same age more or less. Ovechkin and Malkin are the stand alone figures. My point remains the same: Zherdev is worth more then 5 million/year.


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01-15-2009, 04:21 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Synergy27 View Post
On the off chance that I am mistake, and you are in fact serious with these posts, you have completely gone off the deep end.
Yes, you're mistaken. I was forced to go off deep end by those who failed to pay attention, but only to make my point. Not the first time and not the last.

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01-15-2009, 04:26 PM
  #178
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For the record, career points per game:

Crosby: 1.37
Messier: 1.07
Lecavalier: 0.85

Let's take it a step further... Points in first full season:

Crosby: 102
Messier: 33
Lecavalier: 28

Sidney Crosby is also the youngest captain in NHL history. Assuming his scoring pace slows to 1.20 points/game for his career (I'm probably selling him short), and he plays 1500 games (which he'll likely do), he'll wind up with like 1800 career points. Barring unforeseen in jury, Crosby will retire as one of the 10 greatest players to play the game.

Honestly, 94now, your argument is one of the most ridiculous I've ever seen on these boards. I'm trying not to be a dick, but just, I mean, Jesus Christ...

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01-15-2009, 05:27 PM
  #179
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Nikky wants to be here, is good news to me.

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01-15-2009, 06:22 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
For the record, career points per game:

Crosby: 1.37
Messier: 1.07
Lecavalier: 0.85


Let's take it a step further... Points in first full season:

Crosby: 102
Messier: 33
Lecavalier: 28

Sidney Crosby is also the youngest captain in NHL history. Assuming his scoring pace slows to 1.20 points/game for his career (I'm probably selling him short), and he plays 1500 games (which he'll likely do), he'll wind up with like 1800 career points. Barring unforeseen in jury, Crosby will retire as one of the 10 greatest players to play the game.

Honestly, 94now, your argument is one of the most ridiculous I've ever seen on these boards. I'm trying not to be a dick, but just, I mean, Jesus Christ...
i do agree with you, but Crosby has only been in the NHL a few years with good teams. its unfair to compare his ppg to someone who was in the league for almost 20 years and was on some less then stellar teams.

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01-15-2009, 06:54 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by 045 DEUCE NYR View Post
i do agree with you, but Crosby has only been in the NHL a few years with good teams. its unfair to compare his ppg to someone who was in the league for almost 20 years and was on some less then stellar teams.
Pittsburgh was the second worst team in the league Sidney's rookie season, a year where he lead the team in scoring by 46 points. The next best forwards on the team were John LeClair ( age 36) and Mark Recchi (age 37). The team sucked because they had a dearth of talent, but Sidney still dominated. I knocked .17 points per game off of Sid's projection to account for the inevitable down seasons toward the end of his career (also taking into account that he's 21 and far from peak performance).

I'm not arguing that he's better than Messier--I only mentioned Mess in response to 94now. I'm just pointing out that Sidney has had one of the most remarkable career beginnings in the history of the league, and it's likely that he'll wind up as an all-time great.

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01-15-2009, 07:00 PM
  #182
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Nikky wants to be here, is good news to me.
Yup...best part of the whole article.

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01-15-2009, 07:22 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Pittsburgh was the second worst team in the league Sidney's rookie season, a year where he lead the team in scoring by 46 points. The next best forwards on the team were John LeClair ( age 36) and Mark Recchi (age 37). The team sucked because they had a dearth of talent, but Sidney still dominated. I knocked .17 points per game off of Sid's projection to account for the inevitable down seasons toward the end of his career (also taking into account that he's 21 and far from peak performance).

I'm not arguing that he's better than Messier--I only mentioned Mess in response to 94now. I'm just pointing out that Sidney has had one of the most remarkable career beginnings in the history of the league, and it's likely that he'll wind up as an all-time great.
agreed.

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01-15-2009, 07:32 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
For the record, career points per game:

Crosby: 1.37
Messier: 1.07
Lecavalier: 0.85

Let's take it a step further... Points in first full season:

Crosby: 102
Messier: 33
Lecavalier: 28

Sidney Crosby is also the youngest captain in NHL history. Assuming his scoring pace slows to 1.20 points/game for his career (I'm probably selling him short), and he plays 1500 games (which he'll likely do), he'll wind up with like 1800 career points. Barring unforeseen in jury, Crosby will retire as one of the 10 greatest players to play the game.

Honestly, 94now, your argument is one of the most ridiculous I've ever seen on these boards. I'm trying not to be a dick, but just, I mean, Jesus Christ...
Many of my arguments seem ridiculous up until they become norm. Numbers do not tell whole story.

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01-15-2009, 07:35 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Many of my arguments seem ridiculous up until they become norm. Numbers do not tell whole story.
Haha, okay man.

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01-15-2009, 11:24 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Haha, okay man.
I am sorry for short reply... Busy evening...
Crosby is a talented forward, but getting into bottom 10 best in history (excellent achievement) by your projection wasn't what he was viewed by most scouts. He was supposed to be #1.
Yes, he had a great start. His start was orchestrated by not only Penguins, but the entire NHL. I'm known around here saying that Colton Orr could be a scorer with proper help by his club. Orr is below average NHLer, while Crosby is above that average (average NHL level is very high, this is the best league in the universe). Imagine what Crosby could do if the team would work to get him on top! Help from the club was enormous and support from NHL was there as well. That NHL support is crucial for player success. Zebras knew what bosses wanted without any e-mails sent. Ds throughout the league were briefed by coaches that guy gets special treatment, be careful with him... Soon it became apparent that if you careful with the kid he will smoke you, and he did!
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying he got it easy, but 102 point should be shared with Mario, Souppy, Bettman, Terrien as well as those who set him up and scored from his primary passes and provided primary assists when he had secondary. What is the proof to this? Look at this season. NHL moved on to next marketing target - Ovechkin or whatever they move to and Sidney started yelling at the refs. He didn't get that entitlement is over, he is a kid thinking that candy will be his forever. The team still supports him, but not as much. PIT lost biggest Crosby helper Malone and some other guys, Gonchar is out and here we go... Crosby became what he is a very good player, above average forward. BUT SO IS ZHERDEV. Nick never had team support Crosby had for two reasons: first, team support costs the team, it goes down in standings when focus is moved from winning the games to producing scoring leaders (it also costs the club some $$$ to keep the young budding star from contract disputes); second, Zherdev's terrible English made him unattractive as a marketing object (same could be with Lecavalier, but this is a speculation on my part). Zherdev knows, if he signs with Rangers to Sathers satisfactions, Rangers make him a superstar in return, he has all pedigrees needed and NYR could be a right kennel. However, there are other unfulfilled stars out there, like Kovalchuk, so it is not easy to negotiate with foxes like Sather, especially if you only 24 years old.


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01-16-2009, 09:33 AM
  #187
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you're really a very silly person.

for all your talk about Crosby, he's still second in the league in scoring and is a much better player than Zherdev. It's easy to see that while watching the two of them play.

I think Crosby has disappointed a little bit in terms of not being the dominant force people thought he'd be, but at the very very least he's still top 5 in the league right now and probably reads the ice better than anyone else in the entire league.

Zherdev, not so much, and I really like the guy.

you're really just being silly and I like to think you're just making this up to have fun with people.

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01-16-2009, 09:45 AM
  #188
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he is a conspiracy theorist. by any chance is your favorite book Catcher in the Rye?

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01-16-2009, 10:26 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
His salary of $3.25M is going to go up more than slightly, whether you think he deserves it or not.
Would any other teams offer more than that for Zherdev?

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01-16-2009, 10:31 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by 045 DEUCE NYR View Post
he is a conspiracy theorist. by any chance is your favorite book Catcher in the Rye?
Conspiracy is just an unannounced agreement. It is part of life. Parents conspire against their children routinely every day. What do you think the business meetings are?
Hockey is a business. As in any of such establishment the primary objectives of the bosses is to keep thier jobs and maintain thier power. They do MINIMUM of the reqirement for that. If Dolan happy with second round of PO, we will never go any further other than by accident. Hockey is the game so it is probable, although it may not be possible. That is how this team is built

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01-16-2009, 10:38 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Conspiracy is just an unannounced agreement. It is part of life. Parents conspire against their children routinely every day. What do you think the business meetings are?
Hockey is a business. As in any of such establishment the primary objectives of the bosses is to keep thier jobs and maintain thier power. They do MINIMUM of the reqirement for that. If Dolan happy with second round of PO, we will never go any further other than by accident. Hockey is the game so it is probable, although it may not be possible. That is how this team is built

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01-16-2009, 10:40 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Conspiracy is just an unannounced agreement. It is part of life. Parents conspire against their children routinely every day. What do you think the business meetings are?
Hockey is a business. As in any of such establishment the primary objectives of the bosses is to keep thier jobs and maintain thier power. They do MINIMUM of the reqirement for that. If Dolan happy with second round of PO, we will never go any further other than by accident. Hockey is the game so it is probable, although it may not be possible. That is how this team is built
Um, actually, conspiracy by its very definition is illegal or implicitly sinister. And certainly in colloquial English the word carries a nefarious connotation. An "unannounced agreement" is an unannounced agreement, not a conspiracy.

Anyway, this is so completely off topic. I'm done in this thread.

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01-16-2009, 10:44 AM
  #193
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for all your talk about Crosby, he's still second in the league in scoring and is a much better player than Zherdev. It's easy to see that while watching the two of them play.

.
I do watch them play and I do not see any difference other then body size. Skill wise Zherdev is equal in both stickhandling and skating. Nick is better passer, while Sidney shoots better. Therefore one is more of the scorer, while other is better playmaker.
You switch the two and Zherdev will put tons of points in Pittsbirgh, while Crosby would produce little here.
To reiterate my point, this league has only two superstars currently: Ovechkin #1 and Malkin distant #2. Crosby belongs to group of stars that includes Carter, Perry, Getzlaf, Horcoff and other 5 million guys. He may be better then Z, but not beyond comparison. Zherdev is equal or better then 5 million group of guys. Therefore Zherdev's worth is between 5 and 6 million/year.


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01-16-2009, 10:52 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I do watch them play and I do not see any difference other then body size. Skill wise Zherdev is equal in both stickhandling and skating. Nick is better passer, while Sidney shoots better. Therefore one is more of the scorer, while other is better playmaker.
You switch the two and Zherdev will put tons of points in Pittsbirgh, while Crosby would produce little here.
To reiterate my point, this league has only two superstars currently: Ovechkin #1 and Malkin distant #2. Crosby belongs to group of stars that includes Carter, Perry, Getzlaf, Horcoff and other 5 million guys. He may be better then Z, but not beyond comparison. Therefore Zherdev's worth is between 5 and 6 million/year.
To compare Horcoff to Perry and Getzlaf, or Carter, is absurd, but to compare him to Crosby is simply hilarious.

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01-16-2009, 11:02 AM
  #195
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I do watch them play and I do not see any difference other then body size. Skill wise Zherdev is equal in both stickhandling and skating. Nick is better passer, while Sidney shoots better. Therefore one is more of the scorer, while other is better playmaker.
You switch the two and Zherdev will put tons of points in Pittsbirgh, while Crosby would produce little here.
To reiterate my point, this league has only two superstars currently: Ovechkin #1 and Malkin distant #2. Crosby belongs to group of stars that includes Carter, Perry, Getzlaf, Horcoff and other 5 million guys. He may be better then Z, but not beyond comparison. Zherdev is equal or better then 5 million group of guys. Therefore Zherdev's worth is between 5 and 6 million/year.
definately got that backwards. Crosby is considered to be the best passer in the NHL, and his weakspot is shooting. He doesn't have a great shot.

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01-16-2009, 11:05 AM
  #196
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To compare Horcoff to Perry and Getzlaf, or Carter, is absurd, but to compare him to Crosby is simply hilarious.
I don't compare those players, just thier contracts.

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01-16-2009, 11:08 AM
  #197
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definately got that backwards. Crosby is considered to be the best passer in the NHL, and his weakspot is shooting. He doesn't have a great shot.
Same with Zherdev.

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01-16-2009, 11:11 AM
  #198
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Um, actually, conspiracy by its very definition is illegal or implicitly sinister. And certainly in colloquial English the word carries a nefarious connotation. An "unannounced agreement" is an unannounced agreement, not a conspiracy.

Anyway, this is so completely off topic. I'm done in this thread.
You are? Sorry to hear that. Check the second definition of the word.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conspiring

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01-16-2009, 11:20 AM
  #199
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Wayne Gretzky was just a little primadonna who benefited from the league wanting him to be great and the players who played against him just psyched themselves out because they bought into the unfounded hype.

LeBron James is really just a slightly above average player who was supposed to be the greatest of all time but is really no better than Vince Carter.

I know these things because I actually watched the games, unlike some people here who just go by what others tell them.

See? I can do it too.

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01-16-2009, 11:45 AM
  #200
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Wayne Gretzky was just a little primadonna who benefited from the league wanting him to be great and the players who played against him just psyched themselves out because they bought into the unfounded hype.
.
NHL was different in the 80ies when your were in your parents plans. No marketing of today's magnitude was attempted back then. The Run-n-Gun style was dominant. Goalies of that NHL wouldn't make AHL, if getting any pro contract, of nowadays. Having said that, Gretz did have team support, although Messier was more complete player (same with Malkin, although caracter wise Mess will never be compared to any skater).

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