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Puck out of the zone

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Old
01-14-2009, 01:27 PM
  #26
dbr2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
That happens when there isn't a safe pass to be made going into the neutral zone. They throw it back, the forwards circle back a bit, and they start over. It's a basic hockey maneuver, but the problem with our team is 1) it happens way more than it should and 2) our forwards don't seem to react faster than the opponent's forwards fairly often, and it gets us pinned back in our zone or forced to just throw the puck up the ice
Ahh-okay I understand now. I just needed to have someone clarify, the point of that play to me. I just wish they would carry the puck up into the offensive zone. But, that could possibly screw, various things that are going on-on the ice. But thanks for clearing it up man.

With that being said, it is pretty damn embarrassed when a team this good, continues to struggle to get the puck outta the zone. Now I don't get to watch other teams play other teams so, I may be a little biased. But, the other games I have seen, I'd might say we're the worst team with getting puck the out.

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Old
01-14-2009, 01:46 PM
  #27
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Quote:
That happens when there isn't a safe pass to be made going into the neutral zone. They throw it back, the forwards circle back a bit, and they start over. It's a basic hockey maneuver, but the problem with our team is 1) it happens way more than it should and 2) our forwards don't seem to react faster than the opponent's forwards fairly often, and it gets us pinned back in our zone or forced to just throw the puck up the ice
The key with that play is the forwards circling deep enough. Cutting up ice on your own blue line doesn't help the Dmen. I would love to see them skate deeper into our own zone on a botched breakout.

Quote:
it's called the hinge, and they're like that because they act as a safety valve, just in case anything bad happens like a turnover.
Last man never stickhandles out of the zone.

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01-14-2009, 01:53 PM
  #28
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I thin the problem is 2 fold just from watching them play the last 2 years. Befor mid November of this year our team didn't EVER try to make passes inside our own zone. As soon as our dmen got the puck the forwards would take off looking for a homerun pass. THIS is what was expected the "new" NHL to be evolving into and it appeared that Stevens had the team trying to take advantage of this new "run and gun" style of play. Yes we ended up with a lot of break-aways and odd man rushes as a result but we also ended up giving up a lot more giveaways too.

The Redwings became THE model for how to play inthis "new" NHL. They keep their forwards back and THEY collect the puck from the dmen and the FORWARDS carry the puck up the ice rather than dump and chase. On defense, to counter the long outlet passes they pull back and flood the passing lanes causing turnovers.

Now as for the Flyers and their struggles, they are late-comers to the Redwings philosophy of play. We started this year with the "run and gun" style but after about a month of failing under it we shifted our style of play to be more responsible and to play the outlet/collection game that the Wings employ. This is still a new style ofr the Flyers and they struggle with it at times. Trust me, they are about one billion times better than they were. I damn near had a stroke every game my BP would get so high just watching them fail with Steven's "run and gun" style. I'm actually very very happy with their progress and by next year (when I TRULY expect them to be ready to win the cup) they sould have all the kinks worked out.

I think the second thing that is wrong is also based in coaching. I think Stevens is too loose in allowing stuff like blind passes both in our zone and the offensive zone. Everyone knows that if you make a blind pass there is a real chance that you'll put it right on an opposing players sitck and give him a golden opportunity. EVERY player knows this yet they still try to get fansy and do it or they panic and do it. STEVEN's needs to step up and lay down they law that you NEVER EVER do it and if you do you'll be benched no matter what. I don't care if it's Richards who does it he should be benched for it and I guarrentee you that after one or 2 benching he'd stop doing it in his own zone and he'd cut his turnovers in half. Obviously players who do it because they panic probably wouldn't be able to stop doing it and it would become obvious very quickly that they'd have to go (this is the catagory I believe Jones would fall into).

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Old
01-14-2009, 02:14 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corduroy View Post
If this is started some where and I missed -- my aplogies:

Can anyone tell me why this team STRUGGGGGGGGLES to get the puck out of the zone? Isnt there enough talent to atleast make a pass or two - and get the redline before icing the puck?


Look forward to the discussion


On a side note -- ever notice how tape to tape passes are lacking?
i think the bigger problem is this team's struggle to keep the puck in the offensive zone with puck possession...this team goes stretches of the season where they only score on the rush or PP...they refuse to dump and chase.

there are going to be games when a team is just doesn't give you any lanes to get through the neautral zone and there are going to be games when you just aren't clicking with your passes...at some point during the game you have to realize and just dumo the puck deep and go get it...the flyers have plenty of speed and enough size to dump the puck and get on top of the other team's dmen..

last night this team refused to dump it in and pIT was playing a really good game defensively in the neutral zone...the coach has to get the players to adjust to that at some point.

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Old
01-14-2009, 02:15 PM
  #30
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complicated question simple answer. most of our forwards have to take half a turn to recieve an outlet pass because of the difference in righties and lefties. that half a turn means half a step for the defender and someone who is as fast as our forwards can make a play with half a step. the answer is to to try and hit a player in stride so he doesnt lose momentum which isnt really allowed for in our breakout scheme.

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Old
01-14-2009, 02:49 PM
  #31
Mike Richards 18
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Break out possibly for playing against Trap 1 2 2

just an idea but when we start to break out if we sent a winger to the far blue line to back up the defense give more space to move the puck thru the neutral zone. if thats not working good enough then make that long pass to that winger and he just puts a quick deflection no negate the icing and the other to fwds with speed built up forecheck and create a very physical board game that will eventually cause mistakes. Does this sound like it would work to anyone else??

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Old
01-14-2009, 03:16 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Assuming you mean throwing it around behind the net...that's a reverse...and it's a defenseman's bestfriend.
Kukkonen thought that Stevens' wife was a defenseman's best friend. Boy was he wrong.

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Old
01-14-2009, 03:18 PM
  #33
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Carle, who was supposed to be somewhat of a solution to this, was absolutely miserable at it last night.

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Old
01-14-2009, 03:25 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trilliam Shakesbeer View Post
Carle, who was supposed to be somewhat of a solution to this, was absolutely miserable at it last night.
everyone was terrible. I don't think I saw one complete pass. Everyone on this team, needs to start playing safe hockey.

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Old
01-14-2009, 03:49 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Richards 18 View Post
Break out possibly for playing against Trap 1 2 2

just an idea but when we start to break out if we sent a winger to the far blue line to back up the defense give more space to move the puck thru the neutral zone. if thats not working good enough then make that long pass to that winger and he just puts a quick deflection no negate the icing and the other to fwds with speed built up forecheck and create a very physical board game that will eventually cause mistakes. Does this sound like it would work to anyone else??
No because with 4 people in the neutral zone the other team is going to take their chances with you forcing a pass to the high forward. The deflect it in the zone idea isn't necesarrily bad, but the man deflecting it in isn't going to be able to effectively forecheck, which makes it a 2 on 2 down low, meaning your going to need a very favorable deflection to both keep it away from the goalie and give a forward a legitimate shot at getting the puck.

Your idea would be better then w/e crap they tried last night to gain the zone, but the point of the trap is to force teams into short quick passes, something the Flyers as a team do not excel at. Our wingers get too far from the D, often the most effective breakouts are when we can force a turn over and then find a forward with speed, but the reason the breakout is successful is because the forwards and D are close enough that the passes can be successful.

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Old
01-14-2009, 05:55 PM
  #36
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I'm going to tell you what the issues are. Phlocky did a nice job of explaining part of it, but the real issue is really simple. Here goes...

The space between the defenders and the forwards is too large. Passes are too high risk.

Here is the result of these, and when you think about each thing, realize how much you see it PER GAME.

1. Defense passes to forward at the red line, along the boards. Forward is STOPPED, trying to corral the puck. Nobody is rushing near him to possibly accept a drop pass, because now the other 2 forwards are STOPPED waiting for this gentleman to corral the puck and BEGIN SKATING again.

2. Defense passes to forward at opposing BLUE line, along the boards. Forward is not only STOPPED, but the pass is too high risk to even bother being corraled. We ice the puck, with the first forechecker in the zone not even bothering to chase.

3. (Offensive zone issue) We dump the puck in. Our forecheck does not get set up. Our forwards run in a horizontal line across every time into the zone, and with the staggering opponent defense, the back defender passes the puck up to the defender near the blue line, effectively trapping all three forwards in the zone. Odd-man rush for opponent.

4. On defense...the forwards are chasing the opponent players into the zone (because they're caught anyway) and the defenders are backing up, giving them room to move and create plays. That is why some games, we see a ton of shots against, and the difference in shots isn't even close. They may not be QUALITY scoring chances (we cut down the lanes very well, along with blocking shots), but they're still shots. The good players manage to beat our goaltending.

5. Finally, on offense, because we run this awful horizontal line that just runs into the zone, any type of poke check on the one player effectively ends the rush, and because the defense is still back not providing support (which should be the 3rd forwards job at the point in a real hockey system), we do not have sustained forecheck or offensive pressure. Which, is another reason why we have the TALENT to score many goals, and we do when we have PUCK POSSESSION on a power play.

If I missed anything or am wrong, please discuss.

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Old
01-15-2009, 06:22 PM
  #37
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Or don't discuss! JERKS!

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01-15-2009, 06:24 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Carle Winslow View Post
Or don't discuss! JERKS!

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Old
01-15-2009, 06:26 PM
  #39
Raffl House
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opus View Post
Help us illerate to hockey wipe boards people out, thanks.

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Old
01-15-2009, 06:40 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carle Winslow View Post
Help us illerate to hockey wipe boards people out, thanks.


I have no idea what that sentence means.

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Old
01-15-2009, 06:42 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carle Winslow View Post
Help us illerate to hockey wipe boards people out, thanks.
Jeez, C-Dub, bars open all day in Langhorne, man?

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Old
01-15-2009, 06:44 PM
  #42
Raffl House
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post


I have no idea what that sentence means.
I'll break it down.

Help -- assist, show, explain, model for learning purposes.

illiterate -- not understanding, not knowing, possibly stupid, possibly wrong

hockey wipe boards -- see standard breakout diagram, or any other sports related marker and wipe board

people -- multiple persons

thanks -- show of appreciation

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Old
01-15-2009, 06:45 PM
  #43
Raffl House
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post


I have no idea what that sentence means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Jeez, C-Dub, bars open all day in Langhorne, man?
I now realize, that I butchered the word ILLITERATE. Thats pretty awful.

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Old
01-15-2009, 06:46 PM
  #44
Opus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carle Winslow View Post
Help us illerate to hockey wipe boards people out, thanks.
We don't speak this language in Canada...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carle Winslow View Post
I'll break it down.

Help -- assist, show, explain, model for learning purposes.

illiterate -- not understanding, not knowing, possibly stupid, possibly wrong

hockey wipe boards -- see standard breakout diagram, or any other sports related marker and wipe board

people -- multiple persons

thanks -- show of appreciation
THIS helps.

You rock Carle!

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Old
01-15-2009, 06:47 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carle Winslow View Post
I now realize, that I butchered the word ILLITERATE. Thats pretty awful.


I was poking a slice of fun.

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Old
01-15-2009, 06:48 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carle Winslow View Post
I now realize, that I butchered the word ILLITERATE. Thats pretty awful.


No worries, mate.

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Old
01-15-2009, 06:53 PM
  #47
Raffl House
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Originally Posted by opus View Post
We don't speak this language in Canada...



THIS helps.

You rock Carle!
I took the time to do it, I'm glad I'm getting recognition. I mean, when you put 110% into something you are doing, the results come. At the end of the day, you don't win if you don't score goals, and if the other team puts goals in your net, then most likely, you lose.


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