HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Finnish goalies

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-14-2009, 07:22 AM
  #1
Ciccarelli
Registered User
 
Ciccarelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,154
vCash: 500
Finnish goalies

Ok, so I thought I could hype the finnish goalies abit, or actually more like hyping Finland as a producer of top level goalies.

I don't have any facts here but if I remember it correctly there were two (2) finnish goalies in the NHL only a few years ago; Jani Hurme and Miikka Kiprusoff both were only back-ups back then.

Nowadays there are several no.1 finnish goalies (Kipper, Bäckström, Rinne(?), Lehtonen, Toskala) and a big bunch of servicable backups not to mention young guys like Rask, Helenius and Niemi (not that young anymore) who will likely be no.1 goalies at some point of their career (well atleast Rask will be). There are also some guys who would at least be backups and even servicable no.1 NHL goalies in European elite leagues; Markkanen, Toivonen, Noronen, Norrena, Vehanen, Wallinheimo, Lassila the Tarkki brothers. I'm amazed noone has taken a look at Vehanen who - IMO - is as good as Bäckström.

I'm just wondering if I'm the only one who's confused about this, I mean where did they all come from all of a sudden, is the goalie coaching in Finland just that much better than in other European hockey countries? It just seems so weird that a country as small as Finland (5mil ppl, half less than in NY for example ) produces so many top quality goalies.

Ciccarelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 07:37 AM
  #2
EmeticDonut
Registered User
 
EmeticDonut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,720
vCash: 800
could it be that goalies aren't susceptible to the "everybody plays" doctrine of junior hockey in finland and they actually get proper training and mentoring.

EmeticDonut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 08:17 AM
  #3
feichter
Registered User
 
feichter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosnell View Post
I'm just wondering if I'm the only one who's confused about this, I mean where did they all come from all of a sudden, is the goalie coaching in Finland just that much better than in other European hockey countries?
I am a goalie myself, and have chatted w/some european and finnish goalies and coaches, so my understanding is as follows:

1) Finns, in general, get far more off-ice coaching then others...cardio, flexibility training, plyometric trainning, the works, for goalie related/dedicated exercises. They get much more then just 'here go to the gym and do weights and run a bit in the summer'.

2) This coaching begins much earlier in life then the rest of the world...hell, I never had a legit goalie coach dedicated to me till I was 14-15ish, and I'm not that old (29 right now).

3) On ice, much more of the overall practivce time is dedicated to 'goalie only' practice, and they don't just go and try to put in time at practice while waiting for the next drill to shoot pucks at them. In fact goalie-onkly ice times are the norm, not the exception over there, whereas here in North America, goalie only practices happen rarely.

4) Over time, this practice and hard work creates the focus, calmness and coolness on the ice that is characteristic of most of the Finn goalies in the NHL.

Hope that helps a bit, likely there is more, but these are a few thongs that stick in my mind.
-Matt.

PS: Toivonen, there's a name I haven't heard in awhile. I expected great things from him!

feichter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 08:43 AM
  #4
Ciccarelli
Registered User
 
Ciccarelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,154
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by feichter View Post
I am a goalie myself, and have chatted w/some european and finnish goalies and coaches, so my understanding is as follows:

PS: Toivonen, there's a name I haven't heard in awhile. I expected great things from him!
Wow, it's great to get some insight from a guy who clearly knows what he's talking about. I wonder if these coaching methods are a new thing or has the talent been there longer. Perhaps the guys like Sulander, Tammi and Myllys would've been top level goalies in the NHL but they really never got the chance to show what they're capable of in the big league.

And yeah about Toivonen, I probably shouldn't have included him in to my list, I'm pretty confident you wont hear about him across the pond ever again...There are far better guys in the Sm-liiga than him (Vehanen, Wallinheimo, Lassila, Tarkki bros.) he's far from special.

Ciccarelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 09:26 AM
  #5
KRM
Registered User
 
KRM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Gothenburg
Country: Sweden
Posts: 11,088
vCash: 500
Agree, far too many goalies lack finnish abilities today, only Nabokov, Theodore, Brodeur, and Osgood comes to mind.

KRM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 09:33 AM
  #6
vcx*
 
vcx*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Penguins Fan
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,783
vCash: 500
I'm still waiting for Lehto to come over, is it too late now?

vcx* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 09:38 AM
  #7
Fredrik_71
Registered User
 
Fredrik_71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,021
vCash: 500
I once worked out (wrestling) with a swedish goalieprospect and I was blown away by his conditioning. He was like a steelspring going like an energizer bunny for 2 hours straight. Amazing!!!

I will never underestimate the conditioning of a goalie again. And finns seems to be at the top of the food chain.

/Cheers

Fredrik_71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 09:42 AM
  #8
feichter
Registered User
 
feichter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 396
vCash: 500
Another thing that furthers the exosure too is that after the first few NHL goalies really broke into the big time (Kipper, etc..), the scouting in Finland really exploded, so that nhl scouts were mining goalies left and right. It was like the Quebec revolution for goalies about 15-20 years ago.

I think there's 2 things hurting that explosion right now though...#1 is that Finnish Jr players(FWDS, D, and G) were having kind of a 'down' time for the last few years (Granlund might be the beginning of the change for that). #2 is that the NHL transfer agreement that limits holding European rights to 2 years which means most prospects can't come over the CHL/AHL to test themselves vs. NA competition and adapt to the 'play style' here, b/c they are signed to home clubs...Sateri would be an example of that, Rask in the past as well.
-Matt.

feichter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 09:45 AM
  #9
vcx*
 
vcx*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Penguins Fan
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,783
vCash: 500
Try to sit in a squat/crouch position for at least 50 mins with a few breaks to round it out to a full session of 1hr. See how much your back, legs, ass...just your entire body, feels after something like that.

Sure there are a few out of shape goaltenders but for the most part, any and every goaltender I have ever met have a very low body fat % and are just very strong people core wise and flexibility.

I wouldn't limit it to just Fins.

vcx* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 09:51 AM
  #10
feichter
Registered User
 
feichter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 396
vCash: 500
Goalies tend to be what I would call 'deceptively strong'...never huge, but usually wiry+very well balanced and powerful/explosive for their size. I believe it's what's called 'functional strength'...not big to look at in the gym, but explosive+strong for size.
-Matt.

feichter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 10:19 AM
  #11
vcx*
 
vcx*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Penguins Fan
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,783
vCash: 500
That is why I said their core strength is amazing for how they look.
- VCX

vcx* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 11:03 AM
  #12
Ciccarelli
Registered User
 
Ciccarelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Finland
Posts: 1,154
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcx View Post
I'm still waiting for Lehto to come over, is it too late now?
He was never that good + his best years are behind him already. If I'm not mistaken Harri Säteri is between the pipes for Tappara most of the games. Make your conclusion.

Ciccarelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 11:25 AM
  #13
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,828
vCash: 500
I don't know all the specifics, but the Finns Hockey Accossiation demands that all organizations basically have atleast one educated goaltending coach. A organization needs a licence to get money from the main acc. That licence in Finland stipulates that a org should educate atleast a certain amount of coaches, and atleast 1 goaltending coach.

Thats a huge diffrence from Sweden for example. We have had a stoneage program, and very few goaltending coaches.

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 11:57 AM
  #14
Todd
 
Todd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 43
vCash: 500
all this coaching, and still the best goaltending continues to come from quebec. fins seem to have a lot more parity in the NHL now, but with the exception of kiprusoff (who you can argue is having an off year by his standards) most fin goalies are mid-level talent in the NHL.

Todd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 12:44 PM
  #15
Son of Donegal
Registered User
 
Son of Donegal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Watertown, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
all this coaching, and still the best goaltending continues to come from quebec. fins seem to have a lot more parity in the NHL now, but with the exception of kiprusoff (who you can argue is having an off year by his standards) most fin goalies are mid-level talent in the NHL.
Well, actually...when looking at save percentage AND GAA for goalies who ahve played more than 15 games so far this year...

In the top 20, the US (more specifically, the midwest) takes the cake with 5 goalies.
Then Ontario with 3, then Quebec, Russia and Finland with 2 each...and then Switzerland, France, British Columbia and Saskachewan with 1 each.

Son of Donegal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 12:56 PM
  #16
Lunatik*
 
Lunatik*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lethbridge
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
all this coaching, and still the best goaltending continues to come from quebec. fins seem to have a lot more parity in the NHL now, but with the exception of kiprusoff (who you can argue is having an off year by his standards) most fin goalies are mid-level talent in the NHL.
just to defend Kipper here for a second... since the Flames changed their system after the 'San Jose fiasco' the Flames have allowed 2.52 GA/G in Kipper starts... his GAA over that time is likely slightly lower due to a few overtime games... while that is not a great number it is a pretty respectable number on a team that is more offensive minded and prone to defensive mistakes

Lunatik* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 01:10 PM
  #17
Panopticon
Registered User
 
Panopticon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Helsinki
Country: Finland
Posts: 4,933
vCash: 500
I remember the year when in the AHL, out of the final four teams 3 had Finnish starters. Lehtonen, Toivonen and Niittymäki. And in the finals if I remember correctly it was Niittymäki vs. Lehtonen...

Too bad none of those guys really seem to be doing as well as I hoped they would. Although only Toivonen seems to be a lost cause. Like someone said he's not even a top goalie in the Finnish league this year.

Lehtonen suffers from playing on a really crappy team and being injured a lot. I'm still not giving up on him. And Niittymäki actually seems to be doing better again. I hope it lasts.

Panopticon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-14-2009, 02:52 PM
  #18
Jarrko Ruttu*
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by roshinaya View Post
could it be that goalies aren't susceptible to the "everybody plays" doctrine of junior hockey in finland and they actually get proper training and mentoring.
I think that's it.

Jarrko Ruttu* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:22 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.