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Backman and Tyutin

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Old
01-14-2009, 02:41 PM
  #1
Wolfpack21
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Backman and Tyutin

I was wonder how much these two players are worth now.

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01-14-2009, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpack21 View Post
I was wonder how much these two players are worth now.
Backman basically nothing......late round pick........

Tyutin is solid........2nd rounder or player of that value

not Zherdev ......Rangers win that deal......Fritsche was throw in but could do well on other teams

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01-14-2009, 02:50 PM
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Tyutin is worth a lot more than a 2nd rounder.
Great player, great contract.

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01-14-2009, 03:17 PM
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Arguably, both teams won the Zherdev-Tyutin trade. Z started hot and has cooled, but is still a great asset for the Rangers. Tyutin started slow and is improving, and is one of the Jackets' best defensemen.

Backman? His salary dump was necessary to get Tyutin. Beyond that, he'll be gone next year, and that'll likely be his best contribution.

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01-14-2009, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plato View Post
Tyutin is worth a lot more than a 2nd rounder.
Great player, great contract.
I agree totally..a top or 2nd pair D-man...plays both ways..can play physical...Plays both PP and PK..Plays 24 mins a night and does a good job..a real good fit for Columbus as Zherdev was for the Rangers, even i I would still rather have Tyutin then any Ranger D-man outside of Staal..Good deal for both teams..

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Old
01-14-2009, 03:46 PM
  #6
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The majority of rangers fans, and some ignorant jackets fans, think that Howson got fleeced in that deal.

Like someone already stated, Zherdev started hot but has cooled and has started to bring his cloak of invisibility to many games. Other than a few flashes of sheer brilliance, he doesn't consistently do it on a night in and night out basis. Basically he is doing the same thing he did in Columbus. That team STILL has trouble scoring in spite of all their offensive 'firepower'.

Rangers have played 45 games and have scored 120 goals.
The jackets have played 43 games and have scored 115 goals.

As I watch Tyutin night in and night out I become more and more impressed with him. He goes back and takes a hit to make a play every time and rarely does he NOT come up with the puck. The guy is really solid. No, he isn't the one-timing pp monster that we need, but he is improving with each passing week. He makes so many good little plays that help the team win it is really fun to watch. Plus he is a great guy and his teammates love him, and he loves winning.

Backman, on the other hand, started off okay, then got really bad for awhile and then got okay again. People bag on him worse than he deserves most night because he is the whipping boy. Every mistake he makes get shouted from the rooftops, but when other guys make the same mistakes, it goes unmentioned.

He was a salary dump for the Rangers and the jackets took their chances with him. He is gone after this year (if not before) and the jackets will have a heck of a d man on their team for a few more years.

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01-14-2009, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
Like someone already stated, Zherdev started hot but has cooled and has started to bring his cloak of invisibility to many games. Other than a few flashes of sheer brilliance, he doesn't consistently do it on a night in and night out basis. Basically he is doing the same thing he did in Columbus. That team STILL has trouble scoring in spite of all their offensive 'firepower'.

.
If Tom Renney coached the 1985 Oilers,his system would have stifled them.

Zherdev is the most talented Rangers forward.

Tyutin is a nice player.

The deal was Tyutin for Zherdev.Backman for Fritsche was a change of scenery part of the deal.

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Old
01-14-2009, 04:06 PM
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Tyutin won't be traded for at least a few years, Backman could be had for a 7th rounder.

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01-14-2009, 04:24 PM
  #9
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
The majority of rangers fans, and some ignorant jackets fans, think that Howson got fleeced in that deal.

Like someone already stated, Zherdev started hot but has cooled and has started to bring his cloak of invisibility to many games. Other than a few flashes of sheer brilliance, he doesn't consistently do it on a night in and night out basis. Basically he is doing the same thing he did in Columbus. That team STILL has trouble scoring in spite of all their offensive 'firepower'.

Rangers have played 45 games and have scored 120 goals.
The jackets have played 43 games and have scored 115 goals.

As I watch Tyutin night in and night out I become more and more impressed with him. He goes back and takes a hit to make a play every time and rarely does he NOT come up with the puck. The guy is really solid. No, he isn't the one-timing pp monster that we need, but he is improving with each passing week. He makes so many good little plays that help the team win it is really fun to watch. Plus he is a great guy and his teammates love him, and he loves winning.

Backman, on the other hand, started off okay, then got really bad for awhile and then got okay again. People bag on him worse than he deserves most night because he is the whipping boy. Every mistake he makes get shouted from the rooftops, but when other guys make the same mistakes, it goes unmentioned.

He was a salary dump for the Rangers and the jackets took their chances with him. He is gone after this year (if not before) and the jackets will have a heck of a d man on their team for a few more years.
I agree with everything you say on Tyutin, so maybe I am one of the few Ranger fans that think that think Coulumbus at least got as good as it gave in the deal..(I totally disregard Backman and Fritsche)

However, where I disagree with you is on Zherdev..yes, his scoring rate has gone down as the season has gone along but very little is his fault...He has been the Rangers best offense player on a NIGHTLY basis and frequently is the only guy that can generate any chances (and the only guy worth watching)..it's guys like Drury, Gomez, Naslund and others that are at fault....More importantly, don't care what he previously did, but he rarely takes shifts off...He has worked hard defensively and has done some good backchecking at times..

I'm just saying that it seems that both teams got a real good young player that should help for years..Columbus really needed the D and the Rangers desperately needed a player like Zherdev..

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Old
01-14-2009, 04:27 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plato View Post
Tyutin is worth a lot more than a 2nd rounder.
Great player, great contract.
Fully agree.

I've seen many HFboard poster undervalue top-4 D-men (and no Randy Jones is not a top-4 D-man).

Tyutin is worth a mid-first rounder at least. Young, good contract, good stats, decent pedigree and NOT undersized.

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Old
01-14-2009, 04:28 PM
  #11
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We'll give you Fritsche back along with Kalinin for Tyutin

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Old
01-14-2009, 04:32 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
If Tom Renney coached the 1985 Oilers,his system would have stifled them.
I fail to see how Zherdev's in and out play has anything to do with the system. Bottom line is, he plays when he wants to and always has.

Quote:
Zherdev is the most talented Rangers forward.
He was the most talented jackets forward too, and???

Quote:
Tyutin is a nice player.
He is solid and helps the jackets in many ways that don't show up on the scoresheet.

Quote:
The deal was Tyutin for Zherdev.Backman for Fritsche was a change of scenery part of the deal.
Jackets wanted Tyutin. Sather wanted Zherdev but needed to get rid of Backman's money so the only way the deal was done was to take Backman. Fritsche was a bit of a salary dump for the jackets.

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01-14-2009, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers32185 View Post
We'll give you Fritsche back along with Kalinin for Tyutin
Throw in Dubinsky and Staal and you've got a deal.

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Old
01-14-2009, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
However, where I disagree with you is on Zherdev..yes, his scoring rate has gone down as the season has gone along but very little is his fault...He has been the Rangers best offense player on a NIGHTLY basis and frequently is the only guy that can generate any chances (and the only guy worth watching)..it's guys like Drury, Gomez, Naslund and others that are at fault....More importantly, don't care what he previously did, but he rarely takes shifts off...He has worked hard defensively and has done some good backchecking at times..
There is no doubt that the guy can generate scoring chances on his own, he did the same thing in Columbus, but I have watched a lot of Ranger games and sure, he shows up with his flash of brilliance, like he always has done, but he does the bare minimum a lot of nights...just enough to not get benched.

The color guy on your broadcast (Joe is it) practically gets on his knees and does you-know-what whenever Zherdev is on the ice for doing the ordinary things that a good hockey player should do regardless. It is sickening actually the way he sells Zherdev.

In the end, the jackets weren't going to pay Zherdev the 5 million he is going to be looking for at the end of this year anyway. He wasn't part of the jackets long term plans and I am glad you like him, I always love watching him handle the puck. I can't think of anyone who handles it the way he does.

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01-14-2009, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
The majority of rangers fans, and some ignorant jackets fans, think that Howson got fleeced in that deal.

Like someone already stated, Zherdev started hot but has cooled and has started to bring his cloak of invisibility to many games. Other than a few flashes of sheer brilliance, he doesn't consistently do it on a night in and night out basis. Basically he is doing the same thing he did in Columbus. That team STILL has trouble scoring in spite of all their offensive 'firepower'.

Rangers have played 45 games and have scored 120 goals.
The jackets have played 43 games and have scored 115 goals.

As I watch Tyutin night in and night out I become more and more impressed with him. He goes back and takes a hit to make a play every time and rarely does he NOT come up with the puck. The guy is really solid. No, he isn't the one-timing pp monster that we need, but he is improving with each passing week. He makes so many good little plays that help the team win it is really fun to watch. Plus he is a great guy and his teammates love him, and he loves winning.

Backman, on the other hand, started off okay, then got really bad for awhile and then got okay again. People bag on him worse than he deserves most night because he is the whipping boy. Every mistake he makes get shouted from the rooftops, but when other guys make the same mistakes, it goes unmentioned.

He was a salary dump for the Rangers and the jackets took their chances with him. He is gone after this year (if not before) and the jackets will have a heck of a d man on their team for a few more years.
You have very bold opinions for a person who doesn't know wtf he's talking about...

First of all, majority of Ranger fans do NOT think we fleeced the Blue Jackets. Yes, there will be a few idiots, but most Ranger fans realize what we gave up in Tyuts, but also see that Zherdev was by far a bigger need. We would do that deal 1000 more times, but at the same time we know the Blue Jackets are happy with the move as well.

Zherdev has not "cooled off" in any aspect but statistical. He's been playing the same he has the whole season, but there is only so much one player can do. Earlier in the year the other players were contributing while more recently it's everyone else that has been invisible; NOT Zherdev. In a complete contradiction of what you claim, Nik Zherdev has been the most consistent forward on the team this year. But what would I know, I've only watched this team the whole year

Your advanced statistical analysis of our offense is great... and has absolutely nothing to do with Zherdev. Tampa Bay's offense has sucked , so I guess Lecavalier has been ineffective this year as well? There are 11 other forwards I blame for a lack of offense before I blame Zherdev. Your overview of Zherdev this season proves that you either have an extraordinary bias against Zherdev or you haven't watched the Rangers at all this year.

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01-14-2009, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
The majority of rangers fans, and some ignorant jackets fans, think that Howson got fleeced in that deal.

Like someone already stated, Zherdev started hot but has cooled and has started to bring his cloak of invisibility to many games. Other than a few flashes of sheer brilliance, he doesn't consistently do it on a night in and night out basis. Basically he is doing the same thing he did in Columbus. That team STILL has trouble scoring in spite of all their offensive 'firepower'.

Rangers have played 45 games and have scored 120 goals.
The jackets have played 43 games and have scored 115 goals.

As I watch Tyutin night in and night out I become more and more impressed with him. He goes back and takes a hit to make a play every time and rarely does he NOT come up with the puck. The guy is really solid. No, he isn't the one-timing pp monster that we need, but he is improving with each passing week. He makes so many good little plays that help the team win it is really fun to watch. Plus he is a great guy and his teammates love him, and he loves winning.

Backman, on the other hand, started off okay, then got really bad for awhile and then got okay again. People bag on him worse than he deserves most night because he is the whipping boy. Every mistake he makes get shouted from the rooftops, but when other guys make the same mistakes, it goes unmentioned.

He was a salary dump for the Rangers and the jackets took their chances with him. He is gone after this year (if not before) and the jackets will have a heck of a d man on their team for a few more years.
No offense but I don't think you watch too many Ranger games.

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Old
01-14-2009, 04:44 PM
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Not to sound all touchy-feely, but why does everything devolve into a we win-you lost debate?

As far as the meat of the deal goes -- Z for Tyutin -- I think both the CBJ and NYR management teams are happy and I think both fanbases, for the most part, are okay with it as well, though I know there is a group of CBJ fans who still aren't happy.

Overall though, I think it is a win-win.

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01-14-2009, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Your overview of Zherdev this season proves that you either have an extraordinary bias against Zherdev or you haven't watched the Rangers at all this year.
You'll find both simultaneously among some Jackets fans, so that's not entirely impossible.

That said, most of our impressions of the deal were at the time it was made and shortly after the season started, back when we kept seeing several Rangers fans going on and on about how Zherdev was going to be this ultimate superstar and ha ha them stupid Columbus types don't know what they lost. Glad to see that's not a majority opinion (or at least not anymore).

(To give some credit, we did get a few guys who stopped by with a few rave reviews for Tyutin, but they got a little bit outnumbered. Every team fanbase has its problem children, I guess.)

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01-14-2009, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post

Zherdev has not "cooled off" in any aspect but statistical. He's been playing the same he has the whole season, but there is only so much one player can do.
So that's cool...he has been doing the same things now as he has been all year? You mean the same things that had lead to him being benched several times in a row? Cool.

Someone has an extraordinary bias of Zherdev and it certainly isn't me. I know (and have seen this year) exactly what he is like.

Sounds like someone is buying into the idiot color guys' sales pitch.

Hey, if you are happy with him that's great. I am happy with the trade as well. I love Tyutin.

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01-14-2009, 04:51 PM
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No offense but I don't think you watch too many Ranger games.
None taken. I watch enough.

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01-14-2009, 04:56 PM
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So that's cool...he has been doing the same things now as he has been all year? You mean the same things that had lead to him being benched several times in a row? Cool.

Someone has an extraordinary bias of Zherdev and it certainly isn't me. I know (and have seen this year) exactly what he is like.

Sounds like someone is buying into the idiot color guys' sales pitch.

Hey, if you are happy with him that's great. I am happy with the trade as well. I love Tyutin.
Hahaha this is great keep it up Sparky, your on fire.

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01-14-2009, 04:57 PM
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There is no doubt that the guy can generate scoring chances on his own, he did the same thing in Columbus, but I have watched a lot of Ranger games and sure, he shows up with his flash of brilliance, like he always has done, but he does the bare minimum a lot of nights...just enough to not get benched.

The color guy on your broadcast (Joe is it) practically gets on his knees and does you-know-what whenever Zherdev is on the ice for doing the ordinary things that a good hockey player should do regardless. It is sickening actually the way he sells Zherdev.

In the end, the jackets weren't going to pay Zherdev the 5 million he is going to be looking for at the end of this year anyway. He wasn't part of the jackets long term plans and I am glad you like him, I always love watching him handle the puck. I can't think of anyone who handles it the way he does.
Apparently you haven't watched a lot of Ranger games. I know this is hard for many to understand but it is possible to make your point about a trade being fair without having to say something negative about one of the players. Your trying to make a point about the trade being fair (one I agree with by the way) by getting on Zherdev instead of focusing on Tyutin's positives. Everything your saying about Zherdev is just flat out wrong.

When this trade went down there were tons of uninformed people flocking into the thread saying how badly the Rangers fleeced the Blue Jackets. Most of those people weren't Ranger fans and most didn't watch Tyutin play. Unfortunately like most trade reactions around here one team had to win and one team had to lose. Zherdev was the more skilled and more popular name so people automatically assumed the Rangers fleeced the Blue Jackets. Since we all know it is impossible for a trade to be fair for both sides on HFBoards. One team must win and another must lose and the losing teams fan base must then be abused about how badly they lost the trade. Like a moth to a flame, people just can't resist making outrageous and uninformed statements in trade threads.

This trade was never lopsided. The Rangers got what they needed in Zherdev, a dynamic talented forward who helps lessen the blow of losing Jagr. The Blue Jackets got what they wanted, a steady top 4 D-Man who is signed to a very cap friendly contract.

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01-14-2009, 04:57 PM
  #23
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The grass is always greener...erm...in Columbus.

I never knew how much Tyutin meant to this team until he left. Now it feels as if there is an empty spot near Girardi every time he plays I don't know how Tyutin was drafted by the Rangers since they draft like **** most of the time. I hope he comes back when his contract is over

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01-14-2009, 04:59 PM
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You'll find both simultaneously among some Jackets fans, so that's not entirely impossible.

That said, most of our impressions of the deal were at the time it was made and shortly after the season started, back when we kept seeing several Rangers fans going on and on about how Zherdev was going to be this ultimate superstar and ha ha them stupid Columbus types don't know what they lost. Glad to see that's not a majority opinion (or at least not anymore).

(To give some credit, we did get a few guys who stopped by with a few rave reviews for Tyutin, but they got a little bit outnumbered. Every team fanbase has its problem children, I guess.)
Without going into details, I get more frustrated every day I log onto the Rangers boards and see what idiots decided to expose their lack of hockey knowledge. If you frequent the Rangers boards you'll quickly come to find that many posters base their opinions on as short of a period as possible. Henrik Lundqvist is falling apart because of 1 bad game, Michal Rozsival should be waived after a bad game despite being top 10 in NHL scoring for defensemen, Prucha should get more playing time... no wait Dawes... no Fritsche... no Prucha... etc. etc. etc. What I'm getting at here is that Fedor Tyutin had, at best, a mediocre run the last few months of last year and was specifically lackluster during the playoffs. Some Ranger fans were HOPING he would get traded. For some fans, the 2.5 years Tyutin had where he looked wonderful were forgotten for a few fluky months he had at a whole 24 years old. Many Ranger fans wanted Dawes as the odd man out, and now he's "without a doubt a mainstay" in the lineup. There are some great posters on the Rangers board, but believe me, there are more than enough idiots on the board to go around. The fans with half of a brain knew how good of a defenseman Tyutin would be for Columbus, but we also knew that Tyutin was without a doubt a necessary sacrifice.

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01-14-2009, 05:01 PM
  #25
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Apparently you haven't watched a lot of Ranger games. I know this is hard for many to understand but it is possible to make your point about a trade being fair without having to say something negative about one of the players. Your trying to make a point about the trade being fair (one I agree with by the way) by getting on Zherdev instead of focusing on Tyutin's positives. Everything your saying about Zherdev is just flat out wrong.

When this trade went down there were tons of uninformed people flocking into the thread saying how badly the Rangers fleeced the Blue Jackets. Most of those people weren't Ranger fans and most didn't watch Tyutin play. Unfortunately like most trade reactions around here one team had to win and one team had to lose. Zherdev was the more skilled and more popular name so people automatically assumed the Rangers fleeced the Blue Jackets. Since we all know it is impossible for a trade to be fair for both sides on HFBoards. One team must win and another must lose and the losing teams fan base must then be abused about how badly they lost the trade. Like a moth to a flame, people just can't resist making outrageous and uninformed statements in trade threads.

This trade was never lopsided. The Rangers got what they needed in Zherdev, a dynamic talented forward who helps lessen the blow of losing Jagr. The Blue Jackets got what they wanted, a steady top 4 D-Man who is signed to a very cap friendly contract.
I agree. Like I said. I think it is a fair trade. Zherdev is doing what he does. Shows flash, goes invisible, shows flash, does the minimum, has a few good games. That is Zherdev--this isn't a secret.

Rangers fans are making it out like he is doing things in Manhattan that Jackets fans never seen before. He is who he is. Has the potential to score 80-90 points, but will probably be content with himself if he throws up 60-70 every year. I am not sure why people are so offended by this thought.

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