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Old
01-15-2009, 12:40 PM
  #26
FlyLife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosh Pit View Post
I love how Philly is always trying to give away Lupul and Jones. Even if this one example was made by a Leafs fan, it's hilarious.

No one wants them.
Yea nobody wants a 25 year old winger who is on pace for 27 goals and 50 points, or a solid (though not game-breaking) offensive d-man....nope, no need at all for those types of players.

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Old
01-15-2009, 12:40 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Brophy View Post
Kaberle is worthless at this point.
He's not worth JVR+ but c'mon, worthless? That's as stupid as this trade proposal.

The guy has 50+ points 3 years and running and is on pace to break the 50 point barrier this year. A puck moving defenseman of his caliber could fetch something nice.

Talk about underrating Kaberle.

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Old
01-15-2009, 01:03 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyIntellect11 View Post
To Toronto: Randy Jones, Mike Knuble, JVR, 1st rd

To Philadelphia: Tomas Kaberle

The Salaries Match and the Deal is a fair trade for both. Philly gets the D man they want and Toronto gets some contracts back, knuble which goes off the book, Jones a tough defenceman, a 1st that they were going to get, and a Prospect that replaces Jeff Carter from last year.
counter
to Toronto Randy Jones and a 2009 5th

to Philly Luke Schenn

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Old
01-15-2009, 01:03 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
counter
to Toronto Randy Jones and a 2009 5th

to Philly Luke Schenn
Seems fair

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Old
01-15-2009, 01:41 PM
  #30
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I almost didn't notice the "JVR" towards the end there. Reading that... well, I think that's the point where this crossed the line from regrettably stupid to ZOMGWTF.

Yes, Kaberle is a really good player, and is quite valuable. But... a younger puckmoving defenseman, a scoring winger, AND a first round pick, AND a top-3 blue chip prospect winger?

I kind of feel sorry for the Leafs fans that have to watch folks make proposals like this.


Alternatively, I offer the following roughly equivalent counteroffer - Timonen for Antropov, White, Grabovski, 1st. (And anybody who tries to reply with "that's nuts because..." or "it wouldn't work under the cap" or whatnot gets SET ON FIRE. )

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Old
01-15-2009, 01:43 PM
  #31
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what was the point of this?

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Old
01-15-2009, 01:55 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
what was the point of this?
A new and creative way of saying "lol n00b", I presume.

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Old
01-15-2009, 02:00 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I almost didn't notice the "JVR" towards the end there. Reading that... well, I think that's the point where this crossed the line from regrettably stupid to ZOMGWTF.

Yes, Kaberle is a really good player, and is quite valuable. But... a younger puckmoving defenseman, a scoring winger, AND a first round pick, AND a top-3 blue chip prospect winger?

I kind of feel sorry for the Leafs fans that have to watch folks make proposals like this.


Alternatively, I offer the following roughly equivalent counteroffer - Timonen for Antropov, White, Grabovski, 1st. (And anybody who tries to reply with "that's nuts because..." or "it wouldn't work under the cap" or whatnot gets SET ON FIRE. )
eh, i wouldn't do it. i like kimmo a lot more than that.

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Old
01-15-2009, 02:31 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by RawBo View Post
He's not worth JVR+ but c'mon, worthless? That's as stupid as this trade proposal.

The guy has 50+ points 3 years and running and is on pace to break the 50 point barrier this year. A puck moving defenseman of his caliber could fetch something nice.

Talk about underrating Kaberle.
ive been saying for a while he gets a decent propsect or young player and a 1st. maybe a little more or less depending on what the salary they take back is attached to.

i think after the carter rumors last year skewed everyones vision of what kaberles value is. if thats the expected return toronto is gonna get robbed not just disapointed. carters value has skyrocketed and kaberles has gone down.

heres an example of the skewed value. scotty upshall was strongly rumored to be traded even up for meszaros. meszaros is comparable talentwise and is younger and cheaper. the cap numbers dont match up so toronto will have to eat salary. upshall and jones for kaberle.

if toronto doesnt like what other teams are offering for kaberle theyd hate what the flyers offer.the flyers have less of a need for kaberle then other teams so his value to us is less then his actual value. a player with his skill set, no matter how skilled, just icing not cake right now.

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Old
01-15-2009, 02:34 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff VanRichards View Post
Yea nobody wants a 25 year old winger who is on pace for 27 goals and 50 points, or a solid (though not game-breaking) offensive d-man....nope, no need at all for those types of players.
You forgot to mention a lack of work ethic/streaky forward and an overpaid defenceman.

If they are so good, keep them. Why are they always in proposals?

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Old
01-15-2009, 02:35 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
ive been saying for a while he gets a decent propsect or young player and a 1st. maybe a little more or less depending on what the salary they take back is attached to.

i think after the carter rumors last year skewed everyones vision of what kaberles value is. if thats the expected return toronto is gonna get robbed not just disapointed. carters value has skyrocketed and kaberles has gone down.

heres an example of the skewed value. scotty upshall was strongly rumored to be traded even up for meszaros. meszaros is comparable talentwise and is younger and cheaper. the cap numbers dont match up so toronto will have to eat salary. upshall and jones for kaberle.

if toronto doesnt like what other teams are offering for kaberle theyd hate what the flyers offer.the flyers have less of a need for kaberle then other teams so his value to us is less then his actual value. a player with his skill set, no matter how skilled, just icing not cake right now.
Putting Meszaros in the same category as Kaberle is very laughable. Kaberle nearly doubled the guy in his career high points.

Kaberle is comparable to Markov, Markov being slightly better at the moment but thats a comparison

Andrej Meszros = Tomas Kaberle? Get out of here with that garbage. Meszros has some ways to go before you can compare him to a guy like Kaberle.

edit: Not to mention their getting paid basically the same which makes Kaberle even more valuable.


Last edited by MLSE: 01-15-2009 at 02:40 PM.
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Old
01-15-2009, 02:35 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyIntellect11 View Post
To Toronto: Randy Jones, Mike Knuble, JVR, 1st rd

To Philadelphia: Tomas Kaberle

The Salaries Match and the Deal is a fair trade for both. Philly gets the D man they want and Toronto gets some contracts back, knuble which goes off the book, Jones a tough defenceman, a 1st that they were going to get, and a Prospect that replaces Jeff Carter from last year.
Kimmo Timonen for Ian White, Nik Antropov, 1st in 2010 and Luke Schenn.




Didn't think so.

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Old
01-15-2009, 02:37 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosh Pit View Post
You forgot to mention a lack of work ethic/streaky forward and an overpaid defenceman.

If they are so good, keep them. Why are they always in proposals?
cap hits, depth in their positions, etc.

teams don't just trade their bad players.

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Old
01-15-2009, 02:37 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 27roenick97 View Post
eh, i wouldn't do it. i like kimmo a lot more than that.

...don't set me on fire (runs)
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Old
01-15-2009, 02:39 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyIntellect11 View Post
To Toronto: Randy Jones, Mike Knuble, JVR, 1st rd

To Philadelphia: Tomas Kaberle

The Salaries Match and the Deal is a fair trade for both. Philly gets the D man they want and Toronto gets some contracts back, knuble which goes off the book, Jones a tough defenceman, a 1st that they were going to get, and a Prospect that replaces Jeff Carter from last year.
A) Philly doesnt want another d-man, if we did we wouldnt have like 8 on the roster.

B) That is the equivelent or MORE then the Carter + 1st for Kaberle, Which all flyers fans are happy that got nixed.

C) JVR and a First is enough value wise IMO to land Kaberle

D) If the Flyers make a trade they need to unload about 3-4 Million in salary so that Brier can fit under the cap.


so.....

Stop proposing trades to the Flyers that involves D-men, unless it takes a currently healthy D-man back, or more then one.

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Old
01-15-2009, 02:41 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosh Pit View Post
You forgot to mention a lack of work ethic/streaky forward and an overpaid defenceman.

If they are so good, keep them. Why are they always in proposals?
Flyers are keeping Lupul. He isnt getting traded. Best friends with Richards and Homer just signed him to a new deal.

Jones is gone.

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Old
01-15-2009, 02:42 PM
  #42
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This is just a poor proposal.

First off, the Flyers have solved their needs on the blue line and are pretty darn good back there. The offense is top tier and does not need to be tinkered with, at all.

The only real need for the Flyers at this point is a goalie. They're soft between the pipes which is why they give up so many goals. I was at the Flyers/Pens game on Tuesday and, even though I'm a Biron fan and have defended him time and time again, I couldn't believe how poor he played...he's a good goalie but not Stanley Cup caliber...this years playoffs will prove whether or not last year's performance was a fluke or not.

They traded up in last years draft for a goalie, but he got drafted two spots ahead of their pick (Sbisa). The only package i'd like to see from here on out is to get the Flyers a main stay in the net. If we can get a Nabakov or Thomas type goalie, i think the Flyers have Stanley Cup written all over them. Until then, sub par goaltending on the regular.

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Old
01-15-2009, 02:50 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by RawBo View Post
Putting Meszaros in the same category as Kaberle is very laughable. Kaberle nearly doubled the guy in his career high points.

Kaberle is comparable to Markov, Markov being slightly better at the moment but thats a comparison

Andrej Meszros = Tomas Kaberle? Get out of here with that garbage. Meszros has some ways to go before you can compare him to a guy like Kaberle.

edit: Not to mention their getting paid basically the same which makes Kaberle even more valuable.
i guess you didnt read the part about skewed values. overrating the home players and undervaluing the other teams. but just to make the point.

kaberle
2000 Toronto NHL 82 6 39 45
1999 Toronto NHL 82 7 33 40
1998 Toronto NHL 57 4 18 22

meszaros
2007 Ottawa NHL 82 9 27 36
2006 Ottawa NHL 82 7 28 35
2005 Ottawa NHL 82 10 29 39

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01-15-2009, 02:57 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
i guess you didnt read the part about skewed values. overrating the home players and undervaluing the other teams. but just to make the point.

kaberle
2000 Toronto NHL 82 6 39 45
1999 Toronto NHL 82 7 33 40
1998 Toronto NHL 57 4 18 22

meszaros
2007 Ottawa NHL 82 9 27 36
2006 Ottawa NHL 82 7 28 35
2005 Ottawa NHL 82 10 29 39
Are you trying to prove his point? 40 and 45 is higher then 35, 36, and 39. Also had Kaberle played all 82 in 98 his numbers would be roughly 35.

Also notice how Meszaros numbers have declined, and are crap this year also? I thought players with a high degree of promise and talent got better as the years went by?

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Old
01-15-2009, 03:55 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Here's the thing: Philly won't do it. I'd give up all you said except JVR....Like we've said before, we don't really need a Kaberle, we have a ton of puck movers on D, we need more of the rough,shut-down D-Man.
Would Philly look at Finger? Obviously not for anything like the OP...but would they have interest in him? I'd say Frogren too...but he's too much of a bargain for the Leafs to give up for nothing.

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Old
01-15-2009, 04:08 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My Sweet Shadow View Post
Would Philly look at Finger? Obviously not for anything like the OP...but would they have interest in him? I'd say Frogren too...but he's too much of a bargain for the Leafs to give up for nothing.
how has finger looked? all i've heard is that he was overpaid as a free agent.

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Old
01-15-2009, 04:09 PM
  #47
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Why would the Leafs want Knuble??

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Old
01-15-2009, 04:37 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
i guess you didnt read the part about skewed values. overrating the home players and undervaluing the other teams. but just to make the point.

kaberle
2000 Toronto NHL 82 6 39 45
1999 Toronto NHL 82 7 33 40
1998 Toronto NHL 57 4 18 22

meszaros
2007 Ottawa NHL 82 9 27 36
2006 Ottawa NHL 82 7 28 35
2005 Ottawa NHL 82 10 29 39
That's not making any point to me. Kaberle's number incline and Andrej's decline. TB fans would dance in the streets if Meszaros ever put up Kaberle numbers, the guy put up 67 points in a season. Your assuming that Meszaros will pull out a second gear to put up more points, while Kaberle is already a top scoring Defenseman.

Kaberle has a way higher trade value. No questions, you highly underrate Kaberle.

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Old
01-15-2009, 04:58 PM
  #49
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Kaberle has a fair bit of value, more than Dan Boyle had last summer, if you want a recent comparison. So a prospect, roster player, and first isn't unreasonable at all. The fact that a lot of people make stupid proposals revolving around him doesn't make him a bad player.

And really, Meszaros has an outside shot at being as good as Kaberle, which isn't very good considering he gets paid more than Kaberle does right now. Thats not a good comparison.

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Old
01-15-2009, 05:10 PM
  #50
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It's a horrible comparison.

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