HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

Ron Francis vs. Mats Sundin (prime)

View Poll Results: Francis or Sundin?
Ron Francis 154 78.17%
Mats Sundin 36 18.27%
Even 7 3.55%
Voters: 197. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-15-2009, 09:45 PM
  #26
arrbez
bad chi
 
arrbez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,668
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to arrbez
Good comparison, both guys who probably have much more "career" value than "prime value". I'd go with Francis, but it's not as far off as some would have you believe. I don't think Francis was as good as many seem to think, but still a great player nonetheless. Neither was ever one of the truly elite players in the league, just consistently excellent for a long, long time.

arrbez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2009, 09:56 PM
  #27
Epoch
Registered User
 
Epoch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,220
vCash: 500
Francis.

Epoch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2009, 09:56 PM
  #28
the_speedster
Registered User
 
the_speedster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,285
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Swede View Post
Yeah of course being on a team with the likes of Jagr and Lemieux certainly doesn't help hey?
ever take a look at his stats and reputation before and after pittsburgh?

the_speedster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2009, 09:59 PM
  #29
Bohemian93
Registered User
 
Bohemian93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 568
vCash: 500
sundin isnt even close definately francis

Bohemian93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2009, 10:00 PM
  #30
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 43,011
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
Good comparison, both guys who probably have much more "career" value than "prime value". I'd go with Francis, but it's not as far off as some would have you believe. I don't think Francis was as good as many seem to think, but still a great player nonetheless. Neither was ever one of the truly elite players in the league, just consistently excellent for a long, long time.
I agree. I'm confused as to why people don't think this is close. Francis had a more productive career, but a big part of that is due to the fact that he played forever.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2009, 10:01 PM
  #31
The Big Swede
Registered User
 
The Big Swede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Gatineau,Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_speedster View Post
ever take a look at his stats and reputation before and after pittsburgh?
Still

Sundin had Valk and Hoglund as wingers,I dont think we can go much worse then that.

Saying Francis better by miles is laughable

The Big Swede is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2009, 10:02 PM
  #32
the_speedster
Registered User
 
the_speedster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,285
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I agree. I'm confused as to why people don't think this is close. Francis had a more productive career, but a big part of that is due to the fact that he played forever.
won awards, stanley cups, scored tons of pts per season (with/without the pens) (along with having to be the offenses' defensive conscience....

the_speedster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2009, 10:02 PM
  #33
Rayne*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,298
vCash: 500
Francis no question.

Rayne* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2009, 10:03 PM
  #34
The Big Swede
Registered User
 
The Big Swede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Gatineau,Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_speedster View Post
won awards, stanley cups, scored tons of pts per season (with/without the pens) (along with having to be the offenses' defensive conscience....
I cant believe this is such an issue when comparing players

The Big Swede is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-15-2009, 11:54 PM
  #35
AK
Registered User
 
AK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 15,538
vCash: 500
Ronny Franchise.

When he was in his prime, just about nobody was better than him.

(Gretz, Mario, Jagr, Howe, Orr, etc.)

AK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2009, 12:01 AM
  #36
IBLeaf*
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oakville, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,378
vCash: 500
Sundin had little to work with and still produced.

IBLeaf* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2009, 08:05 AM
  #37
JaymzB
Registered User
 
JaymzB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Toronto
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 2,610
vCash: 500
I personally don’t think either player had a particularly awesome “Prime” (don’t get me wrong, they were/are great players), but they are both know more for their consistency than their primes. If I had too choose I’d go with Francis, but its pretty close in my book.

JaymzB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2009, 08:11 AM
  #38
DG
Registered User
 
DG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,777
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcarder View Post
Stanley Cups:
Francis: 2
Sundin: 0
And I'm sure it was mainly Francis that decided those two Cups?

Also,
Cups
Draper: 4
Sundin: 0

Therefore, I'd take Kris Draper.

I vote Francis, but this is not a good argument.

DG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2009, 08:49 AM
  #39
tony d
Summer Camp
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 41,534
vCash: 500
Ron Francis but it's closer than the poll results, thus far, would indicate.

tony d is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2009, 09:46 AM
  #40
arrbez
bad chi
 
arrbez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,668
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to arrbez
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
Ronny Franchise.

When he was in his prime, just about nobody was better than him.

(Gretz, Mario, Jagr, Howe, Orr, etc.)

What?

See, Ron Francis was never nearly as good in his prime as some people seem to think. He never even broke the top-5 in Hart voting. In their primes, contemporaries like Gilmour and Oates were better players, and I don't consider them the best of the era.

arrbez is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2009, 10:29 AM
  #41
loadie
Official Beer Taster
 
loadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New Brunswick
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,246
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Swede View Post
Yeah of course being on a team with the likes of Jagr and Lemieux certainly doesn't help hey?
Of course it does, but Francis helped push the team over the top IMHO.

__________________

The French Canadian rule: Read about it, go to bed smarter.

http://ultimatehockeynetwork.com/the...-or-fiction-2/
loadie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2009, 11:46 AM
  #42
Nordic*
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tellus
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 13,722
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopold Stotch View Post
Francis went up against the likes of Fuhr, Roy, Hasek, Belfour, Brodeur, etc. for the most of his career. So, yeah, definitely useless. I also love how you act like he played with Jagr and Lemieux(and he was actually on the second line quite a bit while they were on the first) his whole career. You realize he spent most of his career on an island either with Hartford or Carolina?
He started in the NHL 1982 or something, are you seriously claiming that goalies were anywhere close to what they are today and the last few years?

The 80:s were wide friggin open.


Regardless what team Francis was on, I'll bet my ass he always had better linemates. Atleast since Sundin left Quebec.


But Francis is canadian, ofcourse he's better. Miles ahead, hands down and twice on sundays... something like that.

Nordic* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2009, 11:54 AM
  #43
Fredrik_71
Registered User
 
Fredrik_71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,029
vCash: 500
I choose Mats but I'm a big Mats Sundin fan. But considering Sundins clutch performance internationally and the fact that he played for maybe the worst leafs ever, I'll have to choose him. Nothing against Francis though but he is to anonymous for me. A good hockeyplayer for the pens.

/Cheers

Fredrik_71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2009, 11:55 AM
  #44
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
The guy who won the Cup.

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2009, 12:01 PM
  #45
Nordic*
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tellus
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 13,722
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
The guy who won the Cup.

People who uses cups to tell who's the better player...it's just dumb.

Like someone else said.

Draper has 4 cups, he must be better than both Francis & Sundin.


Francis wasn't even a ppg-player one single year since he left Pittsburgh.

Sundin was 10 times the player internationally.

Nordic* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2009, 12:37 PM
  #46
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
People who uses cups to tell who's the better player...it's just dumb.

Like someone else said.

Draper has 4 cups, he must be better than both Francis & Sundin.


Francis wasn't even a ppg-player one single year since he left Pittsburgh.

Sundin was 10 times the player internationally.
What's dumb is to think that it's the only reason.

When stats are similar, the proven winner, the guy leading his team through grueling playoffs is the guy that I want on my team, the guy who has proven that he knows how to win, how to step it up when it hurts most, that's the guy that I qualify as the better of the two.

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2009, 12:46 PM
  #47
El Maestro
Registered User
 
El Maestro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: France
Posts: 4,049
vCash: 500
Francis imo.

El Maestro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2009, 01:13 PM
  #48
Vagrant
The Czech Condor
 
Vagrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 20,380
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Vagrant
Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
What?

See, Ron Francis was never nearly as good in his prime as some people seem to think. He never even broke the top-5 in Hart voting. In their primes, contemporaries like Gilmour and Oates were better players, and I don't consider them the best of the era.
It is laughable that Gilmour and Oates would be considered better players in your mind than Francis. The Top 5 in Hart voting is a little skewed as well by the presence of some of the greatest players of all time being in the same era. Gretzky, Mario, Messier, Yzerman, Hasek, Sakic and the brief dominance of Eric Lindros pretty much made the Top 5 in Hart voting impossible to crack. Those five above pretty much rotated in and out of the Hart trophy voting.

Francis' reputation is forever tarnished, in a laughable fashion, by playing alongside Mario and Jagr.

Vagrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2009, 02:03 PM
  #49
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 34,291
vCash: 256
Ron Francis

Habs 4 Life is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-16-2009, 02:05 PM
  #50
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 34,291
vCash: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Swede View Post
Yeah of course being on a team with the likes of Jagr and Lemieux certainly doesn't help hey?

Well Sundin could have been traded to Detroit but refused to waive his NTC,screw him

Habs 4 Life is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:01 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.