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The Ovechkin Race

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Old
04-01-2004, 02:17 AM
  #276
Jaded-Fan
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An update for those who care for the numbers. The magic number for last is 1 for the Pens.

Tie breakers favor the Pens over the Caps, but not over Chicago, so a tie in points with the Caps will not give the Caps last, but a tie in points with Chicago will give Chicago last place. Today theoretically could end the run for last, but not of course the positioning for 2nd to last on, as both the Caps and Chicago are playing today.

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Old
04-01-2004, 02:38 AM
  #277
NYR2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
after tonight's game there is NO doubt in my mind they are tanking it.

They might not get called on it, but a team with Doan, Langkow, Comrie, etc. that can't even score or play or try is getting me VERY suspicious.

I know more than a few people around the league have noticed very well.

Let me put it this way, without making an accusation. If Wayne Gretzky was not affiliated with the Coyotes you'd be hearing a lot more rumblings. But this league can be VERY corrupt and good ol' boyish at times and you're looking at the end result.
It's ****ing pissing me off!! I've been sad and crying all night, now I'm just PISSED. There is no way in hell that team can play THAT BAD for so long. You know what? I may have been wanting the Rangers to lose the rest of their games, but at least they will go out with their heads held high because they were TRYING in these games. What a bunch of losers the Yotes are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
I've been paying close attention to them for a month now because i heard something through the grapvine that bothered me {i cant repeat it on here}.
You can't do that, man!!! Not fair!!

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Old
04-01-2004, 06:51 AM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR2
I hate that team.
Don't hate us! It is all part of a plan to keep the Rangers fans on their toes up to the last game... April fool that I am!
Seriously, the tanking thing is a valuable argument when you consider that half of the coyotes team is from Alberta and were fans of Flames or Oilers when kids.
But you can also wonder as well what the Rangers would have done on a three games trip in west Canada in four days playing against full on playoffs chasing teams. I don't think it was ever going to be easy to get anything from those games.

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Old
04-01-2004, 08:05 AM
  #279
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Even if there isn't much hope left, here they are:
Attached Images
File Type: gif march31.gif‎ (52.3 KB, 51 views)

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Old
04-01-2004, 11:54 AM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
after tonight's game there is NO doubt in my mind they are tanking it.

They might not get called on it, but a team with Doan, Langkow, Comrie, etc. that can't even score or play or try is getting me VERY suspicious.

I know more than a few people around the league have noticed very well.

Let me put it this way, without making an accusation. If Wayne Gretzky was not affiliated with the Coyotes you'd be hearing a lot more rumblings. But this league can be VERY corrupt and good ol' boyish at times and you're looking at the end result.

I thought the NHL of old, where Montreal basically ***** the league of all the good up and coming talent, was long gone. This isn't on the same level, but disheartening nonetheless.

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Old
04-01-2004, 12:39 PM
  #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
I've been paying close attention to them for a month now because i heard something through the grapvine that bothered me {i cant repeat it on here}.
Not even through PMs?

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Old
04-01-2004, 01:37 PM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR2
There is no way in hell that team can play THAT BAD for so long.
Huh?

NYR, last 10 games: 1-6-0-3 (4 points)
PHO, last 10 games: 1-6-2-1 (4 points)

NYR, last 20 games: 4-12-0-4 (12 points)
PHO, last 20 games: 1-12-4-3 (9 points)

So despite the Rangers "trying" and Phoenix "really tanking it", there is only a 3 point difference in the last 5 weeks.

Considering the tiny benefit to the franchise, deliberately losing in an attempt to draft 5th instead of 6th doesn't make a lot of sense. Sure, there's the lottery, but come on: 8.1%. This is obviously just a result of a team with below average talent (in part because the prospects are getting ice time) and way below average motivation. The players don't care if the franchise drafts 5th or 6th, and they are the ones who determine whether the team wins or loses.

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Old
04-01-2004, 02:08 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salad+Croutons
Huh?

NYR, last 10 games: 1-6-0-3 (4 points)
PHO, last 10 games: 1-6-2-1 (4 points)

NYR, last 20 games: 4-12-0-4 (12 points)
PHO, last 20 games: 1-12-4-3 (9 points)

So despite the Rangers "trying" and Phoenix "really tanking it", there is only a 3 point difference in the last 5 weeks.

Considering the tiny benefit to the franchise, deliberately losing in an attempt to draft 5th instead of 6th doesn't make a lot of sense. Sure, there's the lottery, but come on: 8.1%. This is obviously just a result of a team with below average talent (in part because the prospects are getting ice time) and way below average motivation. The players don't care if the franchise drafts 5th or 6th, and they are the ones who determine whether the team wins or loses.
Yeah, true, but look at the amount of goals scored. Only once in Phoenix's last 14 games have they scored more than 2 goals. The Rangers have scored more than 2 goals six times in their last 14 games.

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Old
04-01-2004, 03:54 PM
  #284
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You know what? I haven't been mad at this team since the deadline like I was all year long, they've actually been trying and hustling. Phoenix is tanking it, period. Those are my feelings along with others.

Eh, who freakin cares anymore. It's been one thing after another this year, and they've all been bad. I don't know why I expected one good thing to happen to the Rangers this year, a chance at Ovechkin. I can't wait until the playoffs.


Oh, yeah....Go Blackhawks.

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Old
04-01-2004, 04:05 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salad+Croutons
Huh?

NYR, last 10 games: 1-6-0-3 (4 points)
PHO, last 10 games: 1-6-2-1 (4 points)

NYR, last 20 games: 4-12-0-4 (12 points)
PHO, last 20 games: 1-12-4-3 (9 points)

So despite the Rangers "trying" and Phoenix "really tanking it", there is only a 3 point difference in the last 5 weeks.

Considering the tiny benefit to the franchise, deliberately losing in an attempt to draft 5th instead of 6th doesn't make a lot of sense. Sure, there's the lottery, but come on: 8.1%. This is obviously just a result of a team with below average talent (in part because the prospects are getting ice time) and way below average motivation. The players don't care if the franchise drafts 5th or 6th, and they are the ones who determine whether the team wins or loses.
There's a BIG difference considering that we've completely dismantled our roster. The Coyotes have added a 30-goal scorer up front and a top-notch d-man to a team that was competing for a playoff spot earlier in the season, yet they're just recently come off a 15-game winless skid only to start another streak.

And don't say that there's little difference between drafting 5th and drafting 6th. Most scouts will tell you that there's big dropoff in talent after the top 5 in this draft.

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Old
04-01-2004, 07:45 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak
Most scouts will tell you that there's big dropoff in talent after the top 5 in this draft.
Sure but that doesn't mean that the five most talented guys are going to be taken at the first five picks.

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Old
04-01-2004, 10:48 PM
  #287
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and then there were two . . . the battle for last place and the most balls in the lottery is now down to chicago and Pittsburgh. Caps eliminated, and Pittsburgh needs a tie or loss, or for chicago to tie or win, over the next two games that each have. Otherwise the 48.2% chance goes to Chicago.

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Old
04-02-2004, 12:15 AM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13
Yeah, true, but look at the amount of goals scored. Only once in Phoenix's last 14 games have they scored more than 2 goals. The Rangers have scored more than 2 goals six times in their last 14 games.
If you look at the Coyotes' record, you'll see that the team really went into the toilet in mid-February, and never recovered. January wasn't very good either, but the schedule was tough; every loss was to a playoff-bound team.

They are 1-15-4-4 since Feb 14, and have averaged 1.75 GPG in that period. Why? Nagy was injured on Feb 16, and up to that point he had contributed one quarter of the team's goals (24/101). Comrie has played well, but by the time he showed up the team had already imploded.

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Old
04-02-2004, 01:22 AM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salad+Croutons
If you look at the Coyotes' record, you'll see that the team really went into the toilet in mid-February, and never recovered. January wasn't very good either, but the schedule was tough; every loss was to a playoff-bound team.

They are 1-15-4-4 since Feb 14, and have averaged 1.75 GPG in that period. Why? Nagy was injured on Feb 16, and up to that point he had contributed one quarter of the team's goals (24/101). Comrie has played well, but by the time he showed up the team had already imploded.
how many new players that are inexperienced or a clear downgrade for the present have the coyotes added or how many top notch players have they lost?how do they even compare to the rangers??? i doubt nagy is the reason why they are doing terrible

they are clearly tanking it, why is that so hard to admit??? i wish i could say the same for my team

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Old
04-02-2004, 02:20 AM
  #290
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The Rangers should never be used as an example of a typical hockey team. They were below average despite having multiple superstars and the highest payroll in NHL history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall
they are clearly tanking it, why is that so hard to admit??? i wish i could say the same for my team
I don't think you have thought this through very carefully, if at all. Who exactly do you think is deliberately trying to lose? The players, or management?

If it is the players, please present an argument that explains their motivation, or how the coaches persuaded them to stop trying. If it is management, provide a list of the personnel moves designed to prevent the team from winning (compared to the moves made by other non-playoff teams), and explain how the franchise's long term interests would be served by moving up one spot in the draft at the expense of entertaining current fans and assuring players that the team isn't trying to prevent them from reaching the production bonuses in their contracts.

I suggest that your claim would make sense only if Phoenix management was incredibly, astonishingly moronic. This seems unlikely.


Last edited by c9orf: 04-02-2004 at 02:24 AM.
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Old
04-02-2004, 02:29 AM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salad+Croutons
The Rangers should never be used as an example of a typical hockey team. They were below average despite having multiple superstars and the highest payroll in NHL history.


I don't think you have thought this through very carefully, if at all. Who exactly do you think is deliberately trying to lose? The players, or management?

If it is the players, please present an argument that explains their motivation, or how the coaches persuaded them to stop trying. If it is management, provide a list of the personnel moves designed to prevent the team from winning (compared to the moves made by other non-playoff teams), and explain how the franchise's long term interests would be served by moving up one spot in the draft at the expense of entertaining current fans and assuring players that the team isn't trying to prevent them from reaching the production bonuses in their contracts.

I suggest that your claim would make sense only if Phoenix management was incredibly, astonishingly moronic. This seems unlikely.
you know it all don't you, i guess you are right then

phx is clearly not tanking it, due to the overwhelming loss to Landislav Nagy, the coyotes have not found themselves despite having the likes of Comrie, Langkow, Doan... clearly not enough arsenal to supplement the loss of the great Nagy

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Old
04-02-2004, 02:37 AM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall
you know it all don't you, i guess you are right then

phx is clearly not tanking it, due to the overwhelming loss to Landislav Nagy, the coyotes have not found themselves despite having the likes of Comrie, Langkow, Doan... clearly not enough arsenal to supplement the loss of the great Nagy
Clearly they're not.

Don't even bother anymore. We have our opinions, this person has his/hers.

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Old
04-02-2004, 04:41 AM
  #293
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Attached Images
File Type: gif april1st.gif‎ (41.8 KB, 31 views)

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Old
04-02-2004, 05:22 AM
  #294
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Salad for me the disturbing thing in phoenix isn't just the loses its the fact that the whole team isn't even trying out there. I mean AT ALL.

Yeah we can point to Nagy and we can point to a schedule or whatever we want to, but the team STILL has Doan and Comrie and Langkow and some level of talent out there.

That team has been invisible if ever I've seen one. The Rangers {for all their losing} have been getting signs of life from the likes of Murray and Pock and Tyutin.

Phoenix isn't showing anything out there. It's not so much the losing so much as the lack of scoring, the lack of defense, etc.

Phoenix is a bad team right now, make no mistake, but their play looks VERY fishy out there. I mean it looks so blatently obvious that it is beyond funny. I also find it ironic that they just happen to be be doing this with lottery spot on the line for perhaps the best draft player since Thornton in 97.

I cant make the same accusation against Washington or Pitts or any other top 6 team, but Phoenix's play seriously seems....."off".

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Old
04-02-2004, 08:09 AM
  #295
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Is this thread about fans of a team who was predicted to finish 6th in the Eastern conference by ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/s...ge=2003pvw/nyr) blaming a team who was predicted to end up 14th in the western Conference (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/s...ge=2003pvw/pho) because this latest one is playing too bad? :lol

Both teams have been tanking it big time. To get rid of the best players at the trade deadline is tanking, to play with half a bad AHL team as a roster is tanking.
To try to defend both team records is desperation.

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Old
04-02-2004, 08:38 AM
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParisSaintGermain
To get rid of the best players at the trade deadline is tanking, to play with half a bad AHL team as a roster is tanking.
At least from the Rangers point of view, that's REBUILDING, not tanking. Tanking would be making a concious effort to not win a game. I haven't seen enough PHX games to know if they're guilty of it, but the Rangers are certainly not.

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Old
04-02-2004, 09:59 AM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParisSaintGermain
Is this thread about fans of a team who was predicted to finish 6th in the Eastern conference by ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/s...ge=2003pvw/nyr) blaming a team who was predicted to end up 14th in the western Conference (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/s...ge=2003pvw/pho) because this latest one is playing too bad? :lol

Both teams have been tanking it big time. To get rid of the best players at the trade deadline is tanking, to play with half a bad AHL team as a roster is tanking.
To try to defend both team records is desperation.
you arent going to rile anyone up, like melrose said above that is called "rebuilding", a concept that you are very familiar with i'm sure considering all the times your franchise has needed to do in its very short existance

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Old
04-02-2004, 12:21 PM
  #298
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I posted this in the prospect board... but i figured it was relevant to here as well...

here is a mock lottery:

http://gigaphoid.dyndns.org/profet/draft

It polls espn.com for the latest standings so it should always be up to date.

here is the source if anyone cares:

PHP Code:
<?php

$TOTAL_PICKS 
1000;

$teams getUpdatedStandings();
        
$numberOfPicks=array( $TOTAL_PICKS .25
              
$TOTAL_PICKS .188,
              
$TOTAL_PICKS .142,
              
$TOTAL_PICKS .107,
              
$TOTAL_PICKS .081,
              
$TOTAL_PICKS .062,
              
$TOTAL_PICKS .047,
              
$TOTAL_PICKS .036,
              
$TOTAL_PICKS .027,
              
$TOTAL_PICKS .021,
              
$TOTAL_PICKS .015,
              
$TOTAL_PICKS .011,
              
$TOTAL_PICKS .008,
              
$TOTAL_PICKS .005);    

for(
$x=0$x<14$x++)
{
    for(
$y=0$y<$numberOfPicks[$x]; $y++)
    {
        
$picks[] = $x;
    }
}

shuffle($picks);

$pick rand(0$TOTAL_PICKS-1);

$winnersPosition $picks[$pick];

$winnersNewPosition $winnersPosition 4;
if(
$winnersNewPosition 0)
   
$winnersNewPosition 0;

moveElementInArray($teams$winnersPosition$winnersNewPosition);

printHTML($teams);

function 
moveElementInArray(&$array$oldPosition$newPosition)
{
    
$removed array_splice($array$oldPositioncount($array), array_slice($array$oldPosition+1));

    
$item $removed[0];

    
$rear array_splice($array$newPosition);
    
    
$array[] = $item;
    
    
$array array_merge($array$rear);
}

function &
getUpdatedStandings()
{
    
$teams=array( 
     array(
city => 'Pittsburgh'name => 'Penguins'abrv => 'pit'),
     array(
city => 'Washington'name => 'Capitals'abrv => 'was'),
     array(
city => 'Chicago'name => 'Blackhawks'abrv => 'chi'),
     array(
city => 'Columbus'name => 'Bluejackets'abrv => 'cob'),
     array(
city => 'Phoenix'name => 'Coyotes'abrv => 'pho'),
     array(
city => 'New York'name => 'Rangers'abrv => 'nyr'),
     array(
city => 'Anaheim'name => 'Mighty Ducks'abrv => 'ana'),
     array(
city => 'Florida'name => 'Panthers'abrv => 'fla'),
     array(
city => 'Carolina'name => 'Hurricanes'abrv => 'car'),
     array(
city => 'Atlanta'name => 'Thrashers'abrv => 'atl'),
     array(
city => 'Minnesota'name => 'Wild'abrv => 'min'),
     array(
city => 'Los Angeles'name => 'Kings'abrv => 'los'),
     array(
city => 'Buffalo'name => 'Sabres'abrv => 'buf'),
     array(
city => 'Nashville'name => 'Predators'abrv => 'nas'),
     array(
city => 'New York'name => 'Islanders'abrv => 'nyi'),
     array(
city => 'Edmonton'name => 'Oilers'abrv => 'edm'),
     array(
city => 'St. Louis'name => 'Blues'abrv => 'stl'),
    );

    
$lines file('http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/standings?season=2004&group=conference&column=playoffs&order=true&seasontype=2');
    
    
$inStandingsTable false;
    
$inTeamRow 0;
    
    foreach(
$lines as $line)
    {
        if(
$inTeamRow != 0)
        {
            
$inTeamRow++;
            if(
$inTeamRow == 3)
            {
                   
preg_match('/^.*?class=text\>(.*?)\<.*$/'$line$matches);
                  
$teamWins $matches[1];
            }
        }


        if( 
strpos($line'<img src="http://espn.go.com/i/blackdot.gif" width=600 height=1>') !== false)
            
$inStandingsTable true;
        else if(
$inStandingsTable && preg_match('/^.*?clubhouse\?team=(.*?)>.*$/'$line$matches))
        {
            
$teamAbbreviation $matches[1];
            
$inTeamRow=1;
        }
        else if(
$inTeamRow && preg_match('/^.*?bgcolor=.*?\>(.*?)\<.*$/'$line$matches))
        {
            
$teamPoints $matches[1];
            
            for(
$teamNum=0$teamNum<count($teams); $teamNum++)
            {
                if (
$teams[$teamNum][abrv] == $teamAbbreviation)
                {
                    
$teams[$teamNum][points] = $teamPoints;
                    
$teams[$teamNum][wins] = $teamWins;
                }
            }
        
            
$inTeamRow=0;
        }
        else if( 
strpos($line'<!-- jw sortColumns: playoffSeed -->') !== false)
            
$inStandingsTable false;
    }    
    
    
usort($teams'teamComparePts');

    return 
array_slice($teams014);
}

function 
teamComparePts($a$b)
{
    if(!isset(
$a[points]) && !isset($b[points]))
        return 
0;
    else if(!isset(
$a[points]))
        return 
1;
    else if(!isset(
$b[points]))
        return -
1;
    else if (
$a[points] > $b[points])
        return 
1;
    else if (
$a[points] < $b[points])
        return -
1;
    else if (
$a[wins] > $b[wins])
        return 
1;
    else if (
$a[wins] < $b[wins])
        return -
1;
    else    
        return 
0;
}



function 
printHTML()
{
    global 
$teams;
    global 
$winnersPosition;
    global 
$winnersNewPosition;
?>
<html>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
body {font-family: sans-serif}
th {background-color:#6495ED}
td {text-align:center}
.oddRow {background-color:#A9A9A9}
.evenRow {background-color:#D3D3D3}
.winnerRow {color:#00008B}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body>
    <table align='center' width='350' cellspacing='0'>
       <tr>
        <th>Position</th>
        <th>City</th>
        <th>Team</th>
       </tr>
    <?php
        
for($x=0$x count($teams); $x++)
        {
            
$position $x 1;
            
            
$rowStyle;

            if((
$x 2) == 0)
                
$rowStyle "evenRow";
            else
                
$rowStyle "oddRow";
            if (
$x == $winnersNewPosition)
                
$rowStyle .= ' winnerRow';
                
                    
            echo 
"<tr class='$rowStyle'>\n\t";                 
            echo 
"<td>$position";
            echo 
"</td>";
            echo 
'<td>' $teams[$x][city] . '</td>';
            echo 
'<td>' $teams[$x][name] . '</td>';
            echo 
"</tr>\n";
        }
    
?>
    </table>
    
    <p align='center'>
    <?php
    
echo 'The ' $teams[$winnersNewPosition][city] . ' ' $teams[$winnersNewPosition][name] . ' have won the lottery and gone from position ' . ($winnersPosition 1) . ' to position ' . ($winnersNewPosition 1) . '.';
    
?>
    </p>
</body>
</html>    
<?php
}
?>

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Old
04-02-2004, 01:55 PM
  #299
ParisSaintGermain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall
you arent going to rile anyone up, like melrose said above that is called "rebuilding", a concept that you are very familiar with i'm sure considering all the times your franchise has needed to do in its very short existance
Ok I take this point. The notion of 'rebuilding' is wide enough to fit whatever anyone want inside it even I don't think Sather started the season thinking it was going to be a rebuilding year . The CBA worry is forcing a lot of unsuccessful teams to join the Coyotes in this 'rebuilding' path. If fans are paying huge attention to tomorrow's games I saddly doubt players feel the same way. Anything can happen tomorrow and for whoever finishes fifth from bottom, it is still a long way before getting Ovechkin.


To conclude, I want to thank JayceNYR for his great effort during all this thread. His valuable and accurate updates have been much appreciated.

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Old
04-02-2004, 02:25 PM
  #300
Jaded-Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParisSaintGermain
To conclude, I want to thank JayceNYR for his great effort during all this thread. His valuable and accurate updates have been much appreciated.

As a Pens fan, I want to say the same. I came here over the last month for the updated posting of the standings and results, this by far was the best one around.

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