HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)

Will Ales Hemsky become a superstar?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-20-2009, 03:34 AM
  #51
nvan97
Registered User
 
nvan97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
Still no "superstar" Jagr was a superstar, Ovechkin is a superstar. Hemsky will never be on that sort of level. Superstars don't have excuses about line mates to elevate them to that "superstar" status.
Honestly, you need to stop talking. You don't provide any real value to conversations. I think everyone knows that you don't like Hemsky so what don't you go troll on some other poll? Your definition of superstar is different from others, that doesn't make them wrong, but it does make you sound like an ignorant moron.

nvan97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 03:39 AM
  #52
Morozov
The Devil Killer
 
Morozov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,093
vCash: 50
Send a message via MSN to Morozov
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvan97 View Post
Honestly, you need to stop talking. You don't provide any real value to conversations. I think everyone knows that you don't like Hemsky so what don't you go troll on some other poll? Your definition of superstar is different from others, that doesn't make them wrong, but it does make you sound like an ignorant moron.
So I don't like Hemsky because I don't think he is as good as Spezza, Hossa, Staal, St Louis amongst others? in that case by your logic I am thinking there must be very few people who like Hemsky. Everyones definition of superstar may well vary but anyone who thinks a winger who has never had a ppg season in the NHL is a "superstar" is the "ignorant moron" please refer me to a forward who was generally considered a "superstar" who never had a ppg season

Morozov is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 03:40 AM
  #53
SK13
Mo'Linguish
 
SK13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,948
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
Nah. Superstar is above that. That is reserved for players who are the elite of the elite. Gretzky, Lemieux, Bourque etc.

A franchise player is a player that a franchise builds or can build around. There are a lot of those guys, though some better than others.

Hemsky is the Oilers franchise player right now, which is the main reason why they continue to struggle to make the playoffs.
Yes, and Vincent Lecavalier being the Franchise Player in Tampa is why they can't make it, and Kovalchuk in Atlanta, and Crosby/Ovechkin in 2005/2006. Meanwhile, Carolina might do it with their star player on pace for barely 70 points.

Give your head a shake.

SK13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 03:41 AM
  #54
Valic
BOOOOOOOOOO
 
Valic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Trick Pony View Post
So is Marian Gaborik a superstar (excluding the injury factor)?
Yes.

Valic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 03:53 AM
  #55
nvan97
Registered User
 
nvan97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
So I don't like Hemsky because I don't think he is as good as Spezza, Hossa, Staal, St Louis amongst others? in that case by your logic I am thinking there must be very few people who like Hemsky. Everyones definition of superstar may well vary but anyone who thinks a winger who has never had a ppg season in the NHL is a "superstar" is the "ignorant moron" please refer me to a forward who was generally considered a "superstar" who never had a ppg season
No you don't like him because you've made it clear at every possibility that you don't think much of him. Honestly, how many times have you watched Hemsky play this season? I recognize that you think the only thing that matters was what did he do last season, or has he ever had a PPG season? Truth be told there were a lot of people thinking Messier was a superstar in his 3rd season after seasons of 33 and 63 points the previous years. I'm not saying that Hemsky is in Messier's realm but a player can become a superstar over the course of the season. And Messier only had 88pts in 78 games and was an all-star, as well as being voted as a 1st team all star at the end of the season. Is that a good enough example for you?

nvan97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 04:04 AM
  #56
El Maestro
Registered User
 
El Maestro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: France
Posts: 4,049
vCash: 500
Unfortunately I don't think that he will ever be a superstar.

El Maestro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 04:10 AM
  #57
One Trick Pony*
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
Lol no you tried to claim that Getzlaf in his sophomore year with 15 minutes of ice time a game turned Penner into a 29 goal scorer, and that was your excuse for why Hemsky could not boost Penner past that because supposedly Penner doesn't have the natural talent to pot 30 and Getzlaf made him into a 29 goal scorer who you said was better than Hemsky by a "wide margin" you basically discussed Getzlaf from that year as if he was the monster that is playing on the Ducks today which obviously isn't the case.

You must be heading to ignore soon if you keep raising these silly all over the show points that you continue to make, also this little most just came across as you being a whiny kid tbh.

Also I like Hemsky and this is one of those crap situations where players you like keep getting compared to players who you think are much better so you speak of how you prefer the other guy and end up sounding like your bashing somebody you like. I love watching Hemsky but he doesn't deserve to be rated with Spezza, St Louis, Staal, Hossa until he has the achievements they have to back it up. Half a season at a ppg does not make you on the same level as guys who have had 90-100 point seasons and playoff success. Hemsky has the talent of some of these guys but so does Zherdev. I don't see anyone coming out suggesting Zherdev deserves mentioning with the likes of Spezza or Hossa just yet.
Getzlaf and Perry meshed with Penner...end of discussion. Quit whining on why Penner isn't a 40 Goal scorer already with the Oil. If you didn't notice my statement on that poll, I mentioned that both Horcoff and Penner are garbage 3rd line checkers without Hemsky (as did countless others). Do you actually think most of those players could play at their current level if Hemsky wasn't on the team?

Zherdev doesn't get mention because it is well-renowned he has an attitude problem, and is just another Euro floater with zero determination. Hemsky actually has earned the respect of many coaches, players and GM's in the league. You don't do that by being a Nik Zherdev.

One Trick Pony* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 04:11 AM
  #58
Morozov
The Devil Killer
 
Morozov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,093
vCash: 50
Send a message via MSN to Morozov
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvan97 View Post
No you don't like him because you've made it clear at every possibility that you don't think much of him. Honestly, how many times have you watched Hemsky play this season? I recognize that you think the only thing that matters was what did he do last season, or has he ever had a PPG season? Truth be told there were a lot of people thinking Messier was a superstar in his 3rd season after seasons of 33 and 63 points the previous years. I'm not saying that Hemsky is in Messier's realm but a player can become a superstar over the course of the season. And Messier only had 88pts in 78 games and was an all-star, as well as being voted as a 1st team all star at the end of the season. Is that a good enough example for you?
How have I made it at all clear that I don't think much of him? if people would stop comparing him to players who have achieved far more than him then it would be a whole lot easier to make better comments about him. Of course I do love people who inform me of what players I do and do not like though, I am sure you are far more in the know of my personal likes and dislikes than I am myself. So your not saying Hemsky is in the realm of Messier but your using Messier as an example to try and prove your point about Hemsky lol, you said it yourself that Hemsky isn't in the same realm as Messier so it is hardly worth the comparison and you know it, hell you admitted it yourself in that very post.

Morozov is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 04:15 AM
  #59
Morozov
The Devil Killer
 
Morozov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,093
vCash: 50
Send a message via MSN to Morozov
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Trick Pony View Post
Getzlaf and Perry meshed with Penner...end of discussion. Quit whining on why Penner isn't a 40 Goal scorer already with the Oil. If you didn't notice my statement on that poll, I mentioned that both Horcoff and Penner are garbage 3rd line checkers without Hemsky (as did countless others). Do you actually think most of those players could play at their current level if Hemsky wasn't on the team?

Zherdev doesn't get mention because it is well-renowned he has an attitude problem, and is just another Euro floater with zero determination. Hemsky actually has earned the respect of many coaches, players and GM's in the league. You don't do that by being a Nik Zherdev.
Getzlaf and Perry meshed with Penner like Spezza meshes with Heatley and Alfy you mean? at what point did I "whine" that Penner isn't a 40 goal scorer, I couldn't care less if he is a 40 goal scorer or not I have no reason to like or dislike the Oilers. Do you think Hemsky is the magical only one who can keep Horcoff and Penner playing at there current outstanding (lol) levels?

Zherdev doesn't get mentioned because people know he hasn't done enough to warrant being mentioned with the better stars in the league, just like Hemsky hasn't . The difference being these boards lack a large plethora of Rangers fans who want to go about doing stupid things like claiming Zherdev is far better than players who have put up multiple 80-90-100 point seasons. Your assessment of Zherdev seems completely pre Rangers also. Being ranked amongst the stars of the league is earned not given based on half a season at a ppg and a bunch of not really impressive seasons before that simply because you play for a Canadian franchise who's fans feel they deserve some sort of super talent. Seriously it is really hard taking somebody who considers Stamkos, Bogo and Turris as busts as anything more than a clueless git.

Morozov is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 04:46 AM
  #60
Chea*
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,131
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Trick Pony View Post
My classification of Franchise player.

Franchise player: Someone who can carry the team on their back and win many games all by themselves. 10 forwards (Ovechkin,Malkin,Crosby,Iginla,Thornton,Lecavalier ,Kovalchuk,Zetterberg,Heatley,
Datsyuk) 5 Defenseman (Lidstrom,Pronger,Chara,Niedermayer, Zubov) 3 Goalies(Luongo,Brodeur,Lundqvist)

A superstar is just below that level. A Forward who can score 80-90 Points. A defenseman who can get Top nominations for the Norris Trophy, a Goalie who really stands out in the league but is not part of the best.
I don't think Lecavalier and Heatley fit that category. Now that their teams are struggling their production goes down a lot.

Chea* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 05:04 AM
  #61
Legionnaire
Kill! Jeff, Kill!!!
 
Legionnaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: LA-LA Land
Country: United States
Posts: 34,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Yes, and Vincent Lecavalier being the Franchise Player in Tampa is why they can't make it, and Kovalchuk in Atlanta, and Crosby/Ovechkin in 2005/2006. Meanwhile, Carolina might do it with their star player on pace for barely 70 points.

Give your head a shake.
Some players have what it takes, and some don't. It happens every year. Yes, it's a team sport, but your franchise player has to be the guy to get you to the next level.

Legionnaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 05:49 AM
  #62
SK13
Mo'Linguish
 
SK13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,948
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
Some players have what it takes, and some don't. It happens every year. Yes, it's a team sport, but your franchise player has to be the guy to get you to the next level.
I'm sorry, but that's crap.

We're talking about a guy who was the best forward for this team the year that got within 2 goals of a Stanley Cup. Lecavalier has actually won it, his team will miss again. Iginla missed it god knows how long, including in his best season. When you don't have a playoff team, you won't make it - I don't care if Wayne Gretzky in his prime is your franchise player.

This year, they have a team that should make the playoffs and what do you know... they're in the playoffs with the fifth best point per game percentage in the conference (tied with Minnesota, and we currently have the tiebreaker).

SK13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 06:44 AM
  #63
Legionnaire
Kill! Jeff, Kill!!!
 
Legionnaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: LA-LA Land
Country: United States
Posts: 34,989
vCash: 500
Pronger was the franchise player that year. Hemsky has taken them nowhere as the franchise player.

Pronger is a winner. He wins pretty much everywhere he goes.

See the difference? Pronger is a franchise player whereas Hemsky is a complementary player who has unsuccessfully been thrust into the role of a franchise player, unfortunately for Oilers fans. So basically, until someone like Gagner steps up and takes over that role, the Oilers are consistently going to struggle to make the playoffs.


And you're right about Lecavalier, Ovechkin, Iginla. When they first entered the league, they were not up to the task of being the franchise player yet. YET. However, they have proven throughout time that they have what it takes to take a team to the next level.


Last edited by Legionnaire: 01-20-2009 at 06:56 AM.
Legionnaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 08:19 AM
  #64
Oiltalk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
Pronger was the franchise player that year. Hemsky has taken them nowhere as the franchise player.

Pronger is a winner. He wins pretty much everywhere he goes.

See the difference? Pronger is a franchise player whereas Hemsky is a complementary player who has unsuccessfully been thrust into the role of a franchise player, unfortunately for Oilers fans. So basically, until someone like Gagner steps up and takes over that role, the Oilers are consistently going to struggle to make the playoffs.


And you're right about Lecavalier, Ovechkin, Iginla. When they first entered the league, they were not up to the task of being the franchise player yet. YET. However, they have proven throughout time that they have what it takes to take a team to the next level.
Funny. I was going to bring up Pronger not being able to do anything as the Blues franchise player for years in terms of taking his team to that next level. It takes more than a franchise player to reach that next level.

Iginla has proven that he is a franchise player, and that the Flames needed Kiprusoff in net to get to that next level.

Oiltalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 08:26 AM
  #65
detredWINgs
Registered User
 
detredWINgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 14,214
vCash: 500
Hemsky is definitely not a superstar, nor do I expect him ever to be.

detredWINgs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 10:22 AM
  #66
Tedi
Registered User
 
Tedi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,710
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
What about the Hossas in the league? Hemsky isn't on that level either.
No need debating with someone who has the east conference blinders on. What excuse is Pit making for missing the playoffs with 2 bonafide "superstars" this year. Hemsky is not a "superstar" yet but he is an elite player with tremendous skill and given the right linemates has the potential to be a top ten scorer. But I'm sure FOX and ESPN haven't told you that yet so it is probably not true.

Tedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 10:24 AM
  #67
HFPM
Registered User
 
HFPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Leduc...
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,642
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to HFPM
No.

Stop making Hemsky threads.

HFPM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 10:30 AM
  #68
Novak Djokovic
MARC METHOT's #1 FAN
 
Novak Djokovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,100
vCash: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynegetic Dawg View Post
Really? Hemsky has a better PPG average this season on a team that has scored considerably fewer goals.
Oh..wow!

Novak Djokovic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 10:34 AM
  #69
Shoalzie
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Portland, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 14,026
vCash: 500
He just reminds me a lot of a guy like Patrik Elias...a little slight in stature but very skilled. Elias has never been a "superstar" but when he's healthy, produces with the upper echelon players in the league. Hemsky is the best player on the Oilers in my view...he looked great in his return on Sunday. He can ultimately be a top 20-25 player but superstar is really reserved for a select group...Sid, Geno, Alex, Lidstrom, Thornton, Lecavalier, Iginla, Brodeur, Luongo.

Shoalzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 10:47 AM
  #70
superhakan
Gaudreauby Baker
 
superhakan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,600
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltalk View Post
Funny. I was going to bring up Pronger not being able to do anything as the Blues franchise player for years in terms of taking his team to that next level. It takes more than a franchise player to reach that next level.

Iginla has proven that he is a franchise player, and that the Flames needed Kiprusoff in net to get to that next level.

But You have to realize when iginla potted 50 for the first time, his linemates were Dean Mcammond, and Craig Conroy. he really made a poor team, good.

superhakan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 10:58 AM
  #71
Tedi
Registered User
 
Tedi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,710
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoalzie View Post
He just reminds me a lot of a guy like Patrik Elias...a little slight in stature but very skilled. Elias has never been a "superstar" but when he's healthy, produces with the upper echelon players in the league. Hemsky is the best player on the Oilers in my view...he looked great in his return on Sunday. He can ultimately be a top 20-25 player but superstar is really reserved for a select group...Sid, Geno, Alex, Lidstrom, Thornton, Lecavalier, Iginla, Brodeur, Luongo.
A fair assesment in comparing him to Elias but remember he is only 25. Joe Thornton played 5 seasons before his first 100 pt. season so he may get there he may not. Hemsky does have a tendancy to get injured too so that could hurt his chances at breaking 100. Should have similar stats compared to last year baring any further injury, so 2 solid seasons in row could set up something big next year or perhaps he has reached the pinnacle of his success. I still think he can surpass 100 pts. given the right circumstances, the jury is still out in my opinion.

Tedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 01:13 PM
  #72
nvan97
Registered User
 
nvan97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
How have I made it at all clear that I don't think much of him? if people would stop comparing him to players who have achieved far more than him then it would be a whole lot easier to make better comments about him. Of course I do love people who inform me of what players I do and do not like though, I am sure you are far more in the know of my personal likes and dislikes than I am myself. So your not saying Hemsky is in the realm of Messier but your using Messier as an example to try and prove your point about Hemsky lol, you said it yourself that Hemsky isn't in the same realm as Messier so it is hardly worth the comparison and you know it, hell you admitted it yourself in that very post.
You evidently have a hard time remembering what you had written earlier so here's a refresher:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
please refer me to a forward who was generally considered a "superstar" who never had a ppg season
I was bringing up an exaample of a player that was indeed regarded as a superstar prior to having a PPG season but rather in the midst of one. You asked I replied. But rather than addressing my response you go off on some tangent about "why bring up Messier if the two aren't comparable?"

nvan97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 01:32 PM
  #73
Myshkin*
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,790
vCash: 500
Morozov, you can't reason with these Oiler fans. These are the guys who think Horcoff is a PPG player, despite never actually hitting a PPG mark. Did you see the projected stats they had for their team before the season started, it was ridiculous.

Most of these fans just look at the stats, I can't think of any other way ANYBODY could possibly think Hemsky is on Hossa's level. The guy is a machine, one of the best all around players in the game, has scored less than 30 goals once in the last seven years, plays amazing in his own end, and he plays for a team that values DEFENSE first, yet he's still got 22 goals and is hitting a PPG, exactly what the Wings want of him!

I also don't really care that Hemsky's got an amazing 37 points in 35 games, fact is Hossa has 45 points. However you want to look at it, Hossa has MORE points this year, than Hemsky.

I'll take a guy I know can be in the lineup and play a great all around game who is also one of the best snipers in the entire league over a guy who's hit 20 goals ONCE and can't seem to stay in the lineup.

Myshkin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 03:16 PM
  #74
One Trick Pony*
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myshkin View Post
Morozov, you can't reason with these Oiler fans. These are the guys who think Horcoff is a PPG player, despite never actually hitting a PPG mark. Did you see the projected stats they had for their team before the season started, it was ridiculous.

Most of these fans just look at the stats, I can't think of any other way ANYBODY could possibly think Hemsky is on Hossa's level. The guy is a machine, one of the best all around players in the game, has scored less than 30 goals once in the last seven years, plays amazing in his own end, and he plays for a team that values DEFENSE first, yet he's still got 22 goals and is hitting a PPG, exactly what the Wings want of him!

I also don't really care that Hemsky's got an amazing 37 points in 35 games, fact is Hossa has 45 points. However you want to look at it, Hossa has MORE points this year, than Hemsky.

I'll take a guy I know can be in the lineup and play a great all around game who is also one of the best snipers in the entire league over a guy who's hit 20 goals ONCE and can't seem to stay in the lineup.
So NOW we're talking about overall game?

So overall, you still believe Spezza is better than Hemsky defensively, or has ever been?

One Trick Pony* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 03:22 PM
  #75
Myshkin*
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
So NOW we're talking about overall game?

So overall, you still believe Spezza is better than Hemsky defensively, or has ever been?
People tried to say Hemsky is on Hossa's level. Please.

Spezza is a much better player than Hemsky ever will be, one bad year for Spezza made people forget how dominant he is.

Get real.

Myshkin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:45 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.