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Shanahan vs. Sundin

View Poll Results: Who was better?
Shanahan was just plain better 77 56.20%
Sundin was just plain better 25 18.25%
Shanahan had a better career but lower peak 30 21.90%
Sundin had a better career but lower peak 11 8.03%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-20-2009, 01:35 PM
  #26
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Shanny had a better peak and his career easily eclipses Sundin's.

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Old
01-20-2009, 01:37 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myshkin View Post
Shanny had a better peak and his career easily eclipses Sundin's.
Whatever dude. Cant expect a wingsfan to back down on this one

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Old
01-20-2009, 01:43 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by vippe View Post
Whatever dude. Cant expect a wingsfan to back down on this one
Can't expect a Swede to back down on this one.

I don't see what Sundin's peak even is. Other than his second season, he's been basically a 30 goal 4 5assist guy.

Shanny was a goal scoring, tough, gritty, power forward and at his peak was a 40-50 goal scorer.

With Sundin you could just pencil him in for 75 points.

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Old
01-20-2009, 01:55 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myshkin View Post
Can't expect a Swede to back down on this one.

I don't see what Sundin's peak even is. Other than his second season, he's been basically a 30 goal 4 5assist guy.

Shanny was a goal scoring, tough, gritty, power forward and at his peak was a 40-50 goal scorer.

With Sundin you could just pencil him in for 75 points.
Or a canadian for that matter

So it's okay to say 52g 102 point seasons is a peak but a 47g and 114 point season is not?

Thats the thing with shanny, u couldnt pencil him in anywhere. Either he scored his 75 points or he was down on 50-60.

I say they are close but I do think Sundin was the better player on alot worse team. Shannys career speaks for itself. He is the clearcut winner there.

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Old
01-20-2009, 02:30 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by vippe View Post
Or a canadian for that matter

So it's okay to say 52g 102 point seasons is a peak but a 47g and 114 point season is not?

Thats the thing with shanny, u couldnt pencil him in anywhere. Either he scored his 75 points or he was down on 50-60.

I say they are close but I do think Sundin was the better player on alot worse team. Shannys career speaks for itself. He is the clearcut winner there.
I look more at the goal totals than just points. Like I said he was a goal scoring power forward, and he also spent a lot of time in the box.

His peak was basically 5 years with 40+ goals(this includes 20 in the lock out year, I'm just assuming he hits 40) along with back to back 50+ goal season.

When he came to Detroit his numbers actually declined, so the team argument isn't really valid. When there are a lot of great or good players on one team, individual stats usually decline a bit.

So I'm taking a 5 year period that I believe was his peak and to me Sundin never had a stretch of 5 years as good.

Difference of opinion though, but I am a huge Swede fan!

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Old
01-20-2009, 02:33 PM
  #31
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Shanahan

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Old
01-20-2009, 02:38 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myshkin View Post
I look more at the goal totals than just points. Like I said he was a goal scoring power forward, and he also spent a lot of time in the box.

His peak was basically 5 years with 40+ goals(this includes 20 in the lock out year, I'm just assuming he hits 40) along with back to back 50+ goal season.

When he came to Detroit his numbers actually declined, so the team argument isn't really valid. When there are a lot of great or good players on one team, individual stats usually decline a bit.

So I'm taking a 5 year period that I believe was his peak and to me Sundin never had a stretch of 5 years as good.

Difference of opinion though, but I am a huge Swede fan!
IMO Sundin from 92-93 - 96-97 was just as good as any 5 year stretch Shanahan had.

I think these 2 players are as equal as it gets, Shanny the better goalscorer, Sundin the better playmaker but Sundins overall clutchness gives him the edge IMO. Also roughly the same pointamount in 3 less seasons says something. I'm not blaming anyone voting for shanny though ;p

The teamargument is pretty much valid because of 3 Stanley Cups, that he scored less points in that stint doesnt really matter. Shanahans career is better only because of Cups. That's why I think it matters.

Anyway I'm not blaming anyone for voting Shanny it's just not as uneven as u make it to be hehe

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Old
01-20-2009, 02:46 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vippe View Post
IMO Sundin from 92-93 - 96-97 was just as good as any 5 year stretch Shanahan had.

I think these 2 players are as equal as it gets, Shanny the better goalscorer, Sundin the better playmaker but Sundins overall clutchness gives him the edge IMO. Also roughly the same pointamount in 3 less seasons says something. I'm not blaming anyone voting for shanny though ;p

The teamargument is pretty much valid because of 3 Stanley Cups, that he scored less points in that stint doesnt really matter. Shanahans career is better only because of Cups. That's why I think it matters.

Anyway I'm not blaming anyone for voting Shanny it's just not as uneven as u make it to be hehe
Shanny was just as clutch as Sundin, plus he'd beat your ass if you ticked him off and stick up for his teammates.

I really don't think they are comparable players, completely different styles, and like I've said, I'm measuring Shanny more on his overall game and goal scoring ability than just plain points. Sundin's close to Hull's point totals, but he is nowhere near Brett Hull in terms of skill or career.

Shanahan has also shown he can get it done when it matters, Sundin really hasn't.

I'll take Shanny, you take Sundin.

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Old
01-20-2009, 02:48 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vippe View Post
I think you could have added one more options

Better peak but worse career.


Sundin was the better player at his peak but Shanahan obviously had a better career
Ummm... If you think Sundin had a better peak but a worse career then you just vote 'Shanahan had a better career but a worse peak'. Those two statements are exactly the same, just with the names reversed. It would have been redundant for me to put the extra options. So you should have chosen that option as well as the Sundin was better option since that's clearly how you feel in this poll.

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Old
01-20-2009, 02:54 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthliner View Post
I think it's so close to equal I didn't vote...
I can agree with that.

In terms of career it's clearly Shanahan but in terms of talent level it's pretty close to even.

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Old
01-20-2009, 02:55 PM
  #36
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Shanny by far.

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Old
01-20-2009, 02:58 PM
  #37
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They have suprisingly similar careers. But Shanahan is a better goalscorer and has the hardware. He is in the triple gold club! Shanny has the better career!

/Cheers

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Old
01-20-2009, 04:00 PM
  #38
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Sundin. It's very close, though.

Shanahan had alot more help over the years than Mats had and only has 20 more points in 180 more games. Both were incredibly consistent, IMO, maybe 2 of the most consistent players to ever play in the NHL.

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Old
01-20-2009, 04:05 PM
  #39
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Shanahan had alot more help over the years than Mats had and only has 20 more points in 180 more games. Both were incredibly consistent, IMO, maybe 2 of the most consistent players to ever play in the NHL.
Already put the stupid "RedWINGSrgud!" argument to bed. His stats declined when he joined the Wings.

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Old
01-20-2009, 04:17 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myshkin View Post
Already put the stupid "RedWINGSrgud!" argument to bed. His stats declined when he joined the Wings.
Dude it's not about the stats, get over that. The cups are what separates them. Hence the teamargument.

Cups aside

Sundin>Shanahan

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Old
01-20-2009, 04:21 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by vippe View Post
Dude it's not about the stats, get over that. The cups are what separates them. Hence the teamargument.

Cups aside

Sundin>Shanahan
No, sorry dude.

650+ goals>Sundin.

Being a champion>Sundin.

Being able to kick Sundin's ass>Sundin.

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Old
01-20-2009, 07:25 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myshkin View Post
650+ goals>Sundin.
Couldn't we just as easily say 750+ assists>Shanahan?

Sundin was certainly a better goalscorer than Shanahan was a playmaker. Their career goals-per-game are almost identical in the regular season, and Sundin's is higher in the playoffs. And obviously, Sundin has the better assists per-game in both the regular season and playoffs.

There are a number of reasons to pick Shanahan, and the two players are close enough to each other that things like physical play, leadership, etc can certainly be the deciding factor.

But Sundin was the better offensive player. He consistently produced at a higher rate, and did it with much less help.

If I were starting a franchise from scratch, I take Sundin. If I have my core and need to add one player, I take Shanahan.

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01-20-2009, 07:46 PM
  #43
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Shanahan.

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Old
01-20-2009, 07:54 PM
  #44
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One player joins a team, and that team wins.

Shanahan is an older player that knows what it takes to win, and is not expected to carry the team.

One player joins a team, and that team looses.

Vancouver pulled a big budget team stunt by trying to buy a playoff berth(Rangers/Toronto 6-7 years ago). They had a great system, great chemistry, and now they're 1-5 since he's comeback.

Wait Sundin also won in his first game back

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01-20-2009, 07:56 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
One player joins a team, and that team wins.

Shanahan is an older player that knows what it takes to win, and is not expected to carry the team.

One player joins a team, and that team looses.

Vancouver pulled a big budget team stunt by trying to buy a playoff berth(Rangers/Toronto 6-7 years ago). They had a great system, great chemistry, and now they're 1-5 since he's comeback.

Wait Sundin also won in his first game back
I'm glad you've cut through all the rhetoric in this thread and have uncovered the only true way to measure a player: judge them on their past-prime mid-season comeback.

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Old
01-21-2009, 04:41 AM
  #46
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Sundin was much better on the international scene.

Sundin has almost as many points despite playing 2 seasons less than Shanny.

This while playing on the circus that is Toronto Maple Leafs, while Shanny played with great players during most of his career.

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01-21-2009, 04:45 AM
  #47
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Shanahan because he's Canadian

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01-21-2009, 04:47 AM
  #48
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Shanahan easy

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Old
01-21-2009, 04:56 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
Couldn't we just as easily say 750+ assists>Shanahan?

Sundin was certainly a better goalscorer than Shanahan was a playmaker. Their career goals-per-game are almost identical in the regular season, and Sundin's is higher in the playoffs. And obviously, Sundin has the better assists per-game in both the regular season and playoffs.

There are a number of reasons to pick Shanahan, and the two players are close enough to each other that things like physical play, leadership, etc can certainly be the deciding factor.

But Sundin was the better offensive player. He consistently produced at a higher rate, and did it with much less help.

If I were starting a franchise from scratch, I take Sundin. If I have my core and need to add one player, I take Shanahan.
My thoughts excactly.

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Old
01-21-2009, 05:37 AM
  #50
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Sundin

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