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2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 Drafts... are the reasons we suck!

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Old
01-20-2009, 12:27 AM
  #1
hangons
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2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 Drafts... are the reasons we suck!

I just looked back at those drafts... We picked up two NHL players in four years. Dustin and Cammi... There are so many players in the league from those four years that are playing well and all we have to show for those four drafts are Brown and Colten Teubert. Simply Rotten!

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01-20-2009, 12:46 AM
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greengiant91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hangons View Post
I just looked back at those drafts... We picked up two NHL players in four years. Dustin and Cammi... There are so many players in the league from those four years that are playing well and all we have to show for those four drafts are Brown and Colten Teubert. Simply Rotten!
Don't forget the drafts from the 90's and prior...

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01-20-2009, 01:14 AM
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01-20-2009, 01:15 AM
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2001 NHL Draft
We already picked the third best player in the draft in Cammalleri. We had no shot at Kovy or Spezza.
2001 draft sucked.

2002 NHL Draft
We picked Denis Grebeshkov with the 18th pick. Most notable person after him was Jarret Stoll in the 2nd round. Duncan Keith was also available in the 2nd round.
Again, can't say that this draft was the reason we suck now.

2003 NHL Draft
Dustin Brown. Would you pick Getzlaf over him? Maybe, maybe not. Is it the reason we suck now? No because it's not like Brown is trash. Boyle & Tambellini is where it sucks big time. Could have had Perry. But at the same time, Perry is a punk ass and I don't know how he would mesh with the characters we have on this team now.
Patrice Bergeron (45) instead of Konstantin Pushkarev (44) would have been nice. But now PB has injury problems.
No one else where I can say "damn this draft cost us big time"

2004 NHL Draft
Lauri Tukonen. Okay would have been nice to have picked a Meszaros or Mike Green, but our D isn't suffering right now.


Truth be told I'm not kicking myself about these drafts. We suck now because we can't score goals because we aren't playing offense with a rhytm. Everyone is out of sync. I can't say one of these drafts would have been the slam dunk solution to our problems.

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01-20-2009, 01:29 AM
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SK13
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Quote:
2001 NHL Draft
We already picked the third best player in the draft in Cammalleri. We had no shot at Kovy or Spezza.
2001 draft sucked.
Cammalleri isn't the third best player from that draft. He's not even 5th.

Quote:
2003 NHL Draft
Dustin Brown. Would you pick Getzlaf over him? Maybe, maybe not.
I think every rational, sane person in the universe would pick Getzlaf over Brown in retrospect. But many teams doing alright picked inferior players instead of Getzlaf.

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01-20-2009, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Cammalleri isn't the third best player from that draft. He's not even 5th.
Please tell us your top 10 then.

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01-20-2009, 01:38 AM
  #7
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DL drafted Marcel Goc with the 20th pick in the draft. Has he broken 20 goals for his career yet?

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01-20-2009, 01:39 AM
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The 2001 draft was actually pretty good. The Kings drafted 3 NHL regulars (Cammalleri, Huet, and Steckel), 2 of which are quality players.

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01-20-2009, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
The 2001 draft was actually pretty good. The Kings drafted 3 NHL regulars (Cammalleri, Huet, and Steckel), 2 of which are quality players.
Too bad all three are playing for other teams.

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01-20-2009, 01:49 AM
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hangons
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2004 DRAFT. Bruins take David Krejci in the late second round. I believe he is currently top 15 in scoring. Detroit takes Johan Franzen in the third round. Montreal takes Mark Streit in round 9. You already mentioned Mike Green. We get squat.

2003 DRAFT. We had three first round picks in one of the best drafts ever. Yes, I know I'm a Monday morning QB... But I would bet my left *** that we could have packaged picks 26 and 27 and moved up 7 to 9 spots and gotten Parise or Getzlaf. Shea Weber and Patrice Bergeron could have been ours as well as plenty of other excellent players...

2002 DRAFT
We had two picks before Detroit even had a turn. They get Hudler, Fleischmann, and Flippula...

2001 DRAFT
Just about anybody picked did better than our guys...

If we get just three "real" players out of this four years of poor drafting... We have no Calder, Zeiler, and Gauthier. We may not win the cup... but I would bet we make the playoffs...

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01-20-2009, 01:56 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Cammalleri isn't the third best player from that draft. He's not even 5th.



I think every rational, sane person in the universe would pick Getzlaf over Brown in retrospect. But many teams doing alright picked inferior players instead of Getzlaf.
2001 Draft redo... Kovalchuk, Spezza, Komisarek, Hemsky, Roy and Cammi are a wash at number 5.

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01-20-2009, 02:19 AM
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Looking back at drafts, the one that seems to hurt me the most (aside from 2003) is 1998. The only two names that I recall having any part in the kings future are Kip brennan and tomas zizka.That is pretty pathetic. The Kings picked Mathieu Biron (mind you that's not even Martin) before Simon Gagne, Scott Gomez, Johnny Cheechoo, Mike Fisher, and Mike Ribeiro. Then Justin Papineau in the 2nd round as Brad Richards was taken by Tampa in the 3rd. Meanwhile, we pick Kip Brennan and Tomas Zizka (and others who I can't even remember playing or having any impact) as Datsyuk waited to be chosen by Detroit in the 6th round. So many missed opportunities. Yes, hindsight's 20/20 but c'mon, it's like we wanted to pick nobodies. Dean would never have let that happen.

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01-20-2009, 03:00 AM
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Honestly have the Kings ever drafted well? I won't count the last two or three since its hard to tell yet whether those players will pan out. But really since 1989, you'd be hard pressed to find a full team:

1989 - no one
1990 - Darryl Sydor, Robert Lang
1991 - Alexei Zhitnik
1992 - no one
1993 - no one
1994 - Jamie Storr (he was good just a headcase)
1995 - Aki Berg (that's maybe even a stretch)
1996 - Eric Belanger
1997 - Olli Jokinen, Joe Corvo (maybe)
1998 - no one
1999 - Frantisek Kaberle
2000 - Alexander Frolov, Lubomir Visnovsky
2001 - David Steckel, Mike Cammalleri, Cristobal Huet
2002 - no one
2003 - Dustin Brown
2004 - no one
2005 - Anze Kopitar, Jon Quick (but likely too early to tell)

1988 was the last draft the Kings had where two top quality players were draft in Martin Gelinas and Rob Blake. But you look through all the drafts and all of them (though 1980 is a question mark, great broadcast team from that draft though with Jim Fox, Darryl Evans and Darren Eliott being taken) had at best two players that were decent players. In fact through parts of the 70's the Kings didn't draft until the 5th round.

Honestly I would say out of everyone the Kings have drafted they maybe have 3 or 4 (Larry Murphy, Luc Robitaille, Rob Blake and maybe Anze Kopitar) Hall of Famers (and 1 Baseball Hall of Famer, Tom Glavine) in the list. Not great work by the Kings' GMs over the years.

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01-20-2009, 04:11 AM
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I guess the only thing that can be said is with STL`s and TB`s wins today they are now at 40 points while we sit at 41 and OTT and ATL are playing much better and sitting closer then ever at 37. We can keep our heads up about one thing and thats the draft. Our GM and Scouts have already proven that they know what they are doing. In the last 3 years we already got 3-4 pickups playing with us already. Moeller, Simmonds, Doughty and of course Bernier now. Thats pretty good. And so far Molly, Chocolate Thunder and Double D have been doing great for us. And there are a few more on the cusp. A top 5 pick would be more then welcomed and another great thing for the franchise.

Hedman? MSP? I dunno it excites me.

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01-20-2009, 06:21 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post
Honestly have the Kings ever drafted well? I won't count the last two or three since its hard to tell yet whether those players will pan out. But really since 1989, you'd be hard pressed to find a full team:

1989 - no one
1990 - Darryl Sydor, Robert Lang
1991 - Alexei Zhitnik
1992 - no one
1993 - no one
1994 - Jamie Storr (he was good just a headcase)
1995 - Aki Berg (that's maybe even a stretch)
1996 - Eric Belanger
1997 - Olli Jokinen, Joe Corvo (maybe)
1998 - no one
1999 - Frantisek Kaberle
2000 - Alexander Frolov, Lubomir Visnovsky
2001 - David Steckel, Mike Cammalleri, Cristobal Huet
2002 - no one
2003 - Dustin Brown
2004 - no one
2005 - Anze Kopitar, Jon Quick (but likely too early to tell)

1988 was the last draft the Kings had where two top quality players were draft in Martin Gelinas and Rob Blake. But you look through all the drafts and all of them (though 1980 is a question mark, great broadcast team from that draft though with Jim Fox, Darryl Evans and Darren Eliott being taken) had at best two players that were decent players. In fact through parts of the 70's the Kings didn't draft until the 5th round.

Honestly I would say out of everyone the Kings have drafted they maybe have 3 or 4 (Larry Murphy, Luc Robitaille, Rob Blake and maybe Anze Kopitar) Hall of Famers (and 1 Baseball Hall of Famer, Tom Glavine) in the list. Not great work by the Kings' GMs over the years.
The saddest thing of all is we traded away all but 3 of those players.

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01-20-2009, 10:09 AM
  #16
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Since before the season started, I've felt we needed one more great draft to give us some flexibility to do some trades without selling off the farm. The only expectation I've had this season is for the team to play better hockey and come together more as a team. For the rest of the season, I'm just looking forward to seeing what DL does leading up to the trade deadline, and what happens on draft day. I'm also looking forward to seeing what happens come July 1st, and what kind of player we are in the FA market. This team needs an upgrade in veteran defensemen, and a top six player or two in order to compete for a playoff spot. Preissing, Gauthier and O'Donnell aren't exactly the veteran defense you want going forward.

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Old
01-20-2009, 10:46 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post
1989 - no one
1990 - Darryl Sydor, Robert Lang
1991 - Alexei Zhitnik
1992 - Rem Murray
1993 - Kimmo Timonen
1994 - Jamie Storr (he was good just a headcase), Matt Johnson, Vitali Yachmenev
1995 - Aki Berg (that's maybe even a stretch), Vladimir Tsyplakov
1996 - Eric Belanger, Josh Green
1997 - Olli Jokinen, Joe Corvo (maybe)
1998 - no one
1999 - Frantisek Kaberle, George Parros
2000 - Alexander Frolov, Lubomir Visnovsky, Andreas Lilja
2001 - David Steckel, Mike Cammalleri, Cristobal Huet
2002 - Denis Grebeshkov
You missed a few guys. All those guys played 300+ games or, in the case of Parros and Grebeshkov, look like they will pass the 300 GP mark.

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01-20-2009, 11:33 AM
  #18
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Drafting is tough, even Lombardi said it himself that he or any other GM is lucky to get 1-2 impact players per draft.

What has hurt us is the 1st rounders have been straight up busts for about 4 of the past 8 years...The Steckel, Karllson, Biron, Grebeshkov, and Tukonen picks all hurt us badly and set us back.

Luckily, the past 3-4 seasons, it's been Kopitar, Lewis, Bernier, Hickey, Doughty, and Teubert....and though only Kopitar and Doughty have proven anything, I don't think Hickey or Teubert will end up as busts....I am crossing my fingers for Lewis and Bernier is now the wild card.

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01-20-2009, 12:00 PM
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ya, I think 1-2 solid NHLers in one draft and it's considered a success. I think there is an unreasonable expectation to have a perfect batting average on the 1st round pick. Just isn't going to happen. So if you were to look at it like that, I think you would see we didn't draft THAT poorly.

What I think we did do poorly was develop our players. Looking at the list, it seems like a lot of the players underperformed or failed to meet expectations. Unless the expectations were unreasonable, it would seem that the organization more failed at getting them to develop properly then the actual drafting in itself.

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01-20-2009, 12:23 PM
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2004 DRAFT. Bruins take David Krejci in the late second round. I believe he is currently top 15 in scoring. Detroit takes Johan Franzen in the third round. Montreal takes Mark Streit in round 9. You already mentioned Mike Green. We get squat.

2003 DRAFT. We had three first round picks in one of the best drafts ever. Yes, I know I'm a Monday morning QB... But I would bet my left *** that we could have packaged picks 26 and 27 and moved up 7 to 9 spots and gotten Parise or Getzlaf. Shea Weber and Patrice Bergeron could have been ours as well as plenty of other excellent players...

2002 DRAFT
We had two picks before Detroit even had a turn. They get Hudler, Fleischmann, and Flippula...

2001 DRAFT
Just about anybody picked did better than our guys...

If we get just three "real" players out of this four years of poor drafting... We have no Calder, Zeiler, and Gauthier. We may not win the cup... but I would bet we make the playoffs...
Shoulda woulda coulda - Hangons any fan can make this argument for their team. I say top 20 pick is where you can make a case of this. After that its basically luck. If you get someone in the 4th round and he turns out to be a star you really can't say the scout or GM is a genius because if they were that smart they should have taken that person earlier. I guess my point is your reaching if your blaming our suckiness on those draft years. The #1 reason we suck is Ownership does not care and management making rash decisions.

But for the first time probably in Kings history besides the Bruce Mcnall (Crook but loved the Kings like us) we actually have a GM who is arrogant enough and not pressured by ownership or swayed by disgruntled fans to stick with his plan all the way through. We will get there and it will be soon and all this bandwagon chatter about how I was the only one who believed in DL will flood this site.

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01-20-2009, 12:45 PM
  #21
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We will get there and it will be soon and all this bandwagon chatter about how I was the only one who believed in DL will flood this site.
No matter how successful the Kings may or may not be during the Lombardi Era I will never make this claim......even with the occasional success that DL has had he has also made a ton of mistakes.

I do find it amusing that some people (not you Pucknut) act like Dean has already built a champion squad.....yet the Kings are still lower in the standings now than when Taylor was still GM. Until this team exceeds the accomplishments of the Taylor Era Kings I think it is way too early to consider Dean's project a success.

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01-20-2009, 01:04 PM
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Let me put in a counter argument here. I think the reason we've suffered is because of the injuries to Jason Allison, Adam Deadmarsh, and Ziggy Palffy back before the lock out. Losing our top line (and it was a great line, nobody doubted that) exposed the lack of depth in the Kings system, consistently stifling players who were forced to play above their abilities (one can only imagine how Frolov and Brown would have developed had they been able to play behind that line and grown without the tremendous pressure). Once those three went down it seemed as if the team lost the direction that it was building off of the '01 and '02 playoffs. I also think that Taylor's emphasis on forwards and not defencemen has come back to bite us, as we are now looking at a situation where the forwards may drastically outpace the defence in terms of development (hopefully not). However, to return to my original point, I think that those three injuries decimated any sense of a core of the team that could have developed a culture and passed it on to the next group of players. Let's face it, I'm only starting to feel like the Kings on the ice are a real Kings team as opposed to some fantasy "I hope the prospects all pan out" thread that we run here all the time. Losing the big three might have set us back developmentally by about 3 years in hindsight.

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01-20-2009, 01:06 PM
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Personally I'm just going to blame Bettmunch for nixing the trade that would have given us Ziggy for practically nothing. Instead we have to trade some scrub named Jokinen who couldn't possibly look great for us right now.....

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01-20-2009, 01:31 PM
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Let me put in a counter argument here. I think the reason we've suffered is because of the injuries to Jason Allison, Adam Deadmarsh, and Ziggy Palffy back before the lock out. Losing our top line (and it was a great line, nobody doubted that) exposed the lack of depth in the Kings system, consistently stifling players who were forced to play above their abilities (one can only imagine how Frolov and Brown would have developed had they been able to play behind that line and grown without the tremendous pressure). Once those three went down it seemed as if the team lost the direction that it was building off of the '01 and '02 playoffs. I also think that Taylor's emphasis on forwards and not defencemen has come back to bite us, as we are now looking at a situation where the forwards may drastically outpace the defence in terms of development (hopefully not). However, to return to my original point, I think that those three injuries decimated any sense of a core of the team that could have developed a culture and passed it on to the next group of players. Let's face it, I'm only starting to feel like the Kings on the ice are a real Kings team as opposed to some fantasy "I hope the prospects all pan out" thread that we run here all the time. Losing the big three might have set us back developmentally by about 3 years in hindsight.
I agree with your points. That is one of the main reasons that Detroit has done as well as they have. Datksuk, Zetteberg, Franzen have been able to come along at a nice pace without having been thrust in the lineup and expected to produce immediately. It is also extremely unfair to compare DL with Taylor because DT was never allowed to finish near the bottom threee straight years to accumulate draft picks. The jury is still very much out on DL as far as his drafting goes. It appears that he has done a better job than DT but Teubert, Bernier, Hickey are not locks to be solid NHLers at this point. As far as development of players under DL that remains to be seen as well.

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01-20-2009, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by T2M View Post
Let me put in a counter argument here. I think the reason we've suffered is because of the injuries to Jason Allison, Adam Deadmarsh, and Ziggy Palffy back before the lock out. Losing our top line (and it was a great line, nobody doubted that) exposed the lack of depth in the Kings system, consistently stifling players who were forced to play above their abilities (one can only imagine how Frolov and Brown would have developed had they been able to play behind that line and grown without the tremendous pressure). Once those three went down it seemed as if the team lost the direction that it was building off of the '01 and '02 playoffs. I also think that Taylor's emphasis on forwards and not defencemen has come back to bite us, as we are now looking at a situation where the forwards may drastically outpace the defence in terms of development (hopefully not). However, to return to my original point, I think that those three injuries decimated any sense of a core of the team that could have developed a culture and passed it on to the next group of players. Let's face it, I'm only starting to feel like the Kings on the ice are a real Kings team as opposed to some fantasy "I hope the prospects all pan out" thread that we run here all the time. Losing the big three might have set us back developmentally by about 3 years in hindsight.
T2M - That was a great line - I still remember watching them against Dallas at a Fry's Electronics in HD (HD Net was showing some Dallas Stars in the early days of HD) and they were unstopable that day. The picture was so clear and watching that line in HD inspired me to flop down $4,000 bucks and buy the damn TV.

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