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Has Jaroslav Halak regressed???

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Old
01-21-2009, 10:45 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Tout ptit View Post
I wonder if other teams put that much importance into their #2 goalies?
When the #2 goalies needs to play more 'cause the #1 goalie is either sick or injured, well I hope you'd give some importance to the #2.....His performance could be the difference between making the playoffs or not.

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Old
01-21-2009, 10:48 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Tout ptit View Post
I wonder if other teams put that much importance into their #2 goalies?
If it was just any #2 goalie I woulden't care so much..but for the last year or two he was being viewed as a premium goalie prospect who might have been able to fetch us a nice return in a trade. It goes deeper then him just being a number 2 goalie, he's an asset who's value is slipping and that can't be good for us.

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01-21-2009, 10:58 AM
  #28
Joe Cole
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I thnk most here have the right idea.

Manage your expectations. Halak was never projected to be a #1. If you remember this, everything is fine.

If you lose focus, and start to change your initial evaluations when a player has a good stretch of games, that is where you get disappointed.

If a GM loses his perspective and changes his expectations on a player too easily, that is when you can label him a bad GM.

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Old
01-21-2009, 11:01 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
If it was just any #2 goalie I woulden't care so much..but for the last year or two he was being viewed as a premium goalie prospect who might have been able to fetch us a nice return in a trade. It goes deeper then him just being a number 2 goalie, he's an asset who's value is slipping and that can't be good for us.
I disagree with your statement about his stature.

He was never projected as a premium prospect. He was labelled as a middle quality goalie who was beating the odds. That makes him hot for a while, not a blue chipper.

He was not drafted early, he did not start immediately in the AHL, he was not slated as a #1 in MTL.

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01-21-2009, 11:10 AM
  #30
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Halak has been technically inconsistent imho, but I think that he sees himself as a potential number 1 on a team who feels they have a number 1 for years to come in Carey Price.

Can be tough to stay motivated ! but I really believe he has an awesome potential !

But then again ... I thought Yann Danis had potential ...

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Old
01-21-2009, 11:12 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
I disagree with your statement about his stature.

He was never projected as a premium prospect. He was labelled as a middle quality goalie who was beating the odds. That makes him hot for a while, not a blue chipper.

He was not drafted early, he did not start immediately in the AHL, he was not slated as a #1 in MTL.
Well I honestly think he was regarded as pretty good goalie prospect. He was never in the level of Rask or Bernier but he was looked upon as being a future #1 goalie. He had dominating stats in the ECHL and in the AHL and Bob Gainey called him the best goalie in the AHL when he was brought up after Huet's trade. While I will agree that he was maybe not a "premium" goalie prsopect like I mentionned, he had still established himself as a very good goalie prospect and had many rave reviews from posters who had seen him play in the QMJHL and in the AHL.

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01-21-2009, 11:43 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
I disagree with your statement about his stature.

He was never projected as a premium prospect. He was labelled as a middle quality goalie who was beating the odds. That makes him hot for a while, not a blue chipper.

He was not drafted early, he did not start immediately in the AHL, he was not slated as a #1 in MTL.
Sometimes goalies do beat the odds. Remember Vokoun? He was drafted late (226 overall), began his career in the ECHL and did not have better numbers than Halak in the AHL.
Jaroslav is a very good number 2 goalie and may became a number 1 elsewhere.

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Old
01-21-2009, 12:27 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by dd View Post
Sometimes goalies do beat the odds. Remember Vokoun? He was drafted late (226 overall), began his career in the ECHL and did not have better numbers than Halak in the AHL.
Jaroslav is a very good number 2 goalie and may became a number 1 elsewhere.
The magic word is "sometimes".

You cannot hang your hat on sometimes. You go with the odds, and when something surprses you, you are happy, not always waiting for a miracle.

BTW, Vokoun... think of it this way, if Vokoun was a sure fire "bet your franchise on him" prosopect, why didn't they protect him in that expansion draft? They were not sure about him either because although all signs were good, his pedigree was less convincing than other goaltenders in the eyes on the Habs at the time.

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Old
01-21-2009, 12:30 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
Well I honestly think he was regarded as pretty good goalie prospect. He was never in the level of Rask or Bernier but he was looked upon as being a future #1 goalie. He had dominating stats in the ECHL and in the AHL and Bob Gainey called him the best goalie in the AHL when he was brought up after Huet's trade. While I will agree that he was maybe not a "premium" goalie prsopect like I mentionned, he had still established himself as a very good goalie prospect and had many rave reviews from posters who had seen him play in the QMJHL and in the AHL.
Mason is considered a pretty good prospect. Pogge is considered a pretty good prospect (or at least he was). Even the 1st rounders do not pan out sometimes.... can you expect a late rounder to be a sure fire hit?

Halak was a roll of the dice.

Let's all be happy with what he has attained instead of thinking that he is not living up to a standard which is unfairly high for him at this point.

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Old
01-21-2009, 12:31 PM
  #35
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not to worried about Halak . For all we know he could be playing injured or just in a mini funk that alot of goalies experience in there careers.

And lets keep the expectation level in check here , the guy(Halak) was drafted 271st overall in the 9th round vs (Price 5th overall).

Halak will flourish but im afraid it will be on another club and will all be sitting here saying darn look at Halak .

The game is all about Price .

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Old
01-21-2009, 12:34 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
The magic word is "sometimes".

You cannot hang your hat on sometimes. You go with the odds, and when something surprses you, you are happy, not always waiting for a miracle.

BTW, Vokoun... think of it this way, if Vokoun was a sure fire "bet your franchise on him" prosopect, why didn't they protect him in that expansion draft? They were not sure about him either because although all signs were good, his pedigree was less convincing than other goaltenders in the eyes on the Habs at the time.
But Vokoun never had the stats that Halak did in the AHL...in fact Vokoun's stats were terrible in the AHL. Halak's stats have been fantastic in the AHL. When a goalie can dominate at the AHL level like Halak did at such a young age, your expectations for his potential start to rise. This was the case with Halak...

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Old
01-21-2009, 12:38 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
But Vokoun never had the stats that Halak did in the AHL...in fact Vokoun's stats were terrible in the AHL. Halak's stats have been fantastic in the AHL. When a goalie can dominate at the AHL level like Halak did at such a young age, your expectations for his potential start to rise. This was the case with Halak...
Alright. I see you have made your mind up.

All I wanted to say was he is a late round pick who did well, and that expecting him to be the next Vokoun, or Roy or whoever else is setting yourself up for heartache.

And setting up a team behind a shot in the dark player is a recipe for failure. (and yes, you did not say you were basing the team around him- I am extrapolating)

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Old
01-21-2009, 12:40 PM
  #38
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i think he has regressed in the minds of most people. He is still a very young goaltender who has a lot of years left to learn the game.

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01-21-2009, 12:43 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CPrice View Post
i think he has regressed in the minds of most people. He is still a very young goaltender who has a lot of years left to learn the game.
Most people....




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Old
01-21-2009, 12:44 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by CPrice View Post
i think he has regressed in the minds of most people. He is still a very young goaltender who has a lot of years left to learn the game.
He can learn the game, but if he's mentally weak its not going to matter. A lot of bad goalies are fundamentally sound, just have zero confidence after one goal is scored.

We may have to do the right thing and make glue out of him.

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Old
01-21-2009, 12:48 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
He can learn the game, but if he's mentally weak its not going to matter. A lot of bad goalies are fundamentally sound, just have zero confidence after one goal is scored.

We may have to do the right thing and make glue out of him.
Yeah I know, but at that young age a lot of goalies still haven't learned the mental toughness yet. Especially until recently he hasn't been really tested. I think a lot of people are beginning to come down to reality and realize that he is no where as good as people though at this stage at least.

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Old
01-21-2009, 12:52 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
I know there are a lot of Halak fans on these boards, and trust me, I am (was) one of them. Having seen this goaltender picked #271 in the NHL Draft and work himself up from the QMJHL, the ECHL and the AHL and put up the numbers he has gives us hope that he can develop into a top notch goalie in the NHL. The problem is (in my eyes anyways) that his development seems to have either regressed or stalled. You can chalk this up to lack of playing time, flawed mechanics or just the fact the he is a small goaltender with poor rebound control. I have been meaning to start this thread for a few games now as I just think he hasen't looked "right" in the games hes played.

His stats for the season are:

GP A PIM Min GA EN SO GAA W L T Svs Pct
21 0 0 1182 57 0 0 2.89 11 8 1 536 0.904

His stats since Carey Price got hurt:

6W-3L 3.85GAA 0.888 Sv Pct.

Those are pretty damn horrendous numbers, so even though we were winning games, it was not because of him.

What do you think are the reasons for this major "slump"??
He's very young for the god snake! Remember two years ago. Halak has very good potential. The only's goaltender who prove more than Halak since 2003 draft, at this point is Carey Price, Steve Mason and M-A Fleury. Correct me if I'm missing someone, but there's no doubt in my mind that Halak will be a #1 goalie in the NHL.

His biggest weakness is that he had problem with control the rebounds. That will be worked on with himself and Rollie.

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01-21-2009, 12:53 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
He can learn the game, but if he's mentally weak its not going to matter. A lot of bad goalies are fundamentally sound, just have zero confidence after one goal is scored.

We may have to do the right thing and make glue out of him.

Few bad games call him weak mentally?

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01-21-2009, 12:54 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by CPrice View Post
I think a lot of people are beginning to come down to reality and realize that he is no where as good as people though at this stage at least.
Perhaps he and O'byrne had a hex placed upon them?

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01-21-2009, 01:01 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Perhaps he and O'byrne had a hex placed upon them?
Anything is possible, I don't trust gypsies for a minute.

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Old
01-21-2009, 01:08 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Talent Analyst View Post
He's very young for the god snake! Remember two years ago. Halak has very good potential. The only's goaltender who prove more than Halak since 2003 draft, at this point is Carey Price, Steve Mason and M-A Fleury. Correct me if I'm missing someone, but there's no doubt in my mind that Halak will be a #1 goalie in the NHL. .
There are many that are touted as high if not higher than Halak.

Cory Schneider
Marek Schwarz
Karri Ramo
Pekka Rinne
Jonathan Quick
Kari Lehtonen - 2002
Cam Ward - 2002
Hannu Toivonen - 2002
Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers 2002
Josh Harding -2002
etc


ALl we have to do is check Hockeydb and not have blinders on for the Habs.

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Old
01-21-2009, 01:29 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Talent Analyst View Post
Few bad games call him weak mentally?
I think he's had more than a "few" bad games, but I guess that depends on what you define as a bad game...

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01-21-2009, 01:38 PM
  #48
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no.....

Halak has performed as well as could be expected for a goalie that had as little playing time as he had before he had a short bad streak. He played very good during the last 7 or 8 games. The three goals that were scored on him against atlanta were not as bad as has been reported by some. And even if they would have been bad goals, it would have been his first bad game in 7 or 8 games.

Just cause a team loses or lets in 4 or 5 goals does not automatically mean the goalie is not playing well. Hell, i have seen goalies win games 5-2 they had no business in.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with Halak's game.

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01-21-2009, 01:43 PM
  #49
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[QUOTE=Toro;17474638]no.....

Halak has performed as well as could be expected for a goalie that had as little playing time as he had before he had a short bad streak. He played very good during the last 7 or 8 games. The three goals that were scored on him against atlanta were not as bad as has been reported by some. And even if they would have been bad goals, it would have been his first bad game in 7 or 8 games.

Just cause a team loses or lets in 4 or 5 goals does not automatically mean the goalie is not playing well. Hell, i have seen goalies win games 5-2 they had no business in.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with Halak's game.[/QUOTE]

Do you guys get a lot of Detroit's air pollution in Windsor??

Kidding..

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Old
01-21-2009, 02:24 PM
  #50
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[QUOTE=FrankMTL;17474723]
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Originally Posted by Toro View Post
no.....

Halak has performed as well as could be expected for a goalie that had as little playing time as he had before he had a short bad streak. He played very good during the last 7 or 8 games. The three goals that were scored on him against atlanta were not as bad as has been reported by some. And even if they would have been bad goals, it would have been his first bad game in 7 or 8 games.

Just cause a team loses or lets in 4 or 5 goals does not automatically mean the goalie is not playing well. Hell, i have seen goalies win games 5-2 they had no business in.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with Halak's game.[/QUOTE]

Do you guys get a lot of Detroit's air pollution in Windsor??

Kidding..
HAHA whatever...


Halak has been making the big saves, and giving the team a chance to win every night except maybe the last game as he was pulled. The team has been missing a top line and has been hampered with Brisebois playing regularly. Give halak some slack, jeez. The team was expected to nosedive with the injuries and Halak has kept us in it.

I watch the games, and i see no problem with Halak's game. I am not saying that he has been terrific all season. I see nothing wrong with his game in the last stretch.

Also Players ranking changes after they get drafted you know!! Just cause Halak was drafted so low doesn' mean his ranking never improved after. Goalies in particular are very hard to read and judge properly before they get drafted cause many goalies in the CHL and elsewhere at that age are not always the #1 goalie on their team. Also it takes a long time for goalies to mature and learn how to be a dominant pro goalie.

After Halak made it to Montreal a couple years ago he had already solidified his position as a #1 goalie prospect. His current years stats have not changed anything. He is still #1 goalie material. Bob is just not willing to trade him as he is the best option for a backup a team could have. Young,good,cheap,positive,happy and there in case we need him on the Ice or in a desperate move to acquire what ever we need. There are many teams that would love to acquire Halak.

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