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Old
01-23-2009, 12:57 PM
  #51
txpd
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
"Fine" isn't going to get them very far.

They had home-ice last year and couldn't get out of the 1st round.

The team is by no means in Detroit, Boston or San Jose's league.
I think Ero here thinks the Caps are pretenders. That they are a regular season team that can't compete in the playoffs.

Actually, San Jose is exactly like that with a track record to prove it. I am a little surprised he chose to use the Sharks as an example of what the Caps are not.

Here is where I think Ero's argument fails. The Caps record against the top 8 teams in the east is 13-3-2. If you think the Pens are going to replace one of them, then there's another 2-0-0 record to add in. I this argument about the Caps would hold more water if their record looked more like Boston's. Where they eat the bad teams alive but barely break even against the good teams. Boston is 0-2-0 vs the Caps and haven't played the Flyers yet.

In my view the Caps play a more complete game when they are up against the best teams. That would tend to indicate that they are a playoff team waiting for the playoff games and less interested than they should be in the daily drudgery of the 82 games schedule.

A final point. Theodore is an erratic goaltender. His lows are bad. However, when he is locked in he is as good as the Vezina and Hart Trophy would indicate. If Theodore brings his A game to a playoff run, he could carry the team to the cup on his own. The question of course is whether they get his A or A- or B+ game for an entire playoff run.

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01-23-2009, 01:04 PM
  #52
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The best Theodore stat out there is that he's never lost in the first round of the playoffs. *knock on wood*

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01-23-2009, 01:17 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar View Post
The best Theodore stat out there is that he's never lost in the first round of the playoffs. *knock on wood*
Personally, I think that was the reason he was signed. I think a lot of people zero'd in on him getting run out of town by the Red Wings when his team probably didnt belong in the playoffs at all and had no business winning a first round playoff series in the first place.

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01-23-2009, 01:23 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
Personally, I think that was the reason he was signed. I think a lot of people zero'd in on him getting run out of town by the Red Wings when his team probably didnt belong in the playoffs at all and had no business winning a first round playoff series in the first place.
Let's not get carried away. Theodore is an average goaltender and has been for the past 7 years. He was signed because no one else was available.

Yes he's shown flashes, but those flashes are unpredictable and consequently, mostly useless.

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Old
01-23-2009, 03:56 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Foy View Post
There are a lot of teams that are just within a game or two of .500 on the road. Chicago, Calgary, Montreal. Those are all contenders right there.
thats 3 teams....not "a lot"

two of them are 3 games over .500, not under .500, the other is 2 games over.

all three teams are in the top 10 in PK

I dont consider Chicago a serious contender, but thats debateable

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01-23-2009, 04:33 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Let's not get carried away. Theodore is an average goaltender and has been for the past 7 years. He was signed because no one else was available.

Yes he's shown flashes, but those flashes are unpredictable and consequently, mostly useless.
He is an average goaltender based in very high peaks and very low valleys. Last season the Avalanche miss the playoffs if Theodore doesnt play the last half of the season at a similar rate as Huet did. Then he out performed Huet in the first round and took Colorado on to Detroit. Whether dropped into a valley then or was shot down by Detroit is up for argument.

Who is getting carried away? History shows that Theodore can be as good as any goaltender in the league for significant stretches and can suck for longer stretches.
If he sucks, then Johnson or Varlamov plays. IF he is his game, he will be better than either of them.

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01-23-2009, 05:12 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by frasnap View Post
I hope you're joking.
About what?

I didn't say the Caps couldn't beat Boston or even win the Cup.

I'm just saying that I would bet on the Bruins if the playoffs started today.

Home Ice+ Superior Defense+ Superior Goaltending.

Until the Caps improve on the road, learn how to PK and Theo can play well for more than 2-3 week stretches.

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01-23-2009, 05:48 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
About what?

I didn't say the Caps couldn't beat Boston or even win the Cup.

I'm just saying that I would bet on the Bruins if the playoffs started today.

Home Ice+ Superior Defense+ Superior Goaltending.

Until the Caps improve on the road, learn how to PK and Theo can play well for more than 2-3 week stretches.
Im less worried about Theo to be honest....not that im confident he will play well, just that its the x factor always. Unless you have one of the top couple, proven playoff goalies....you gotta hope that your good goalie that got you there plays at playoff level.

im surprised so many arent worried about winning on the road and the PK....they need to get that worked out in the 2nd half.

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01-23-2009, 07:25 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Until the Caps improve on the road, learn how to PK and Theo can play well for more than 2-3 week stretches.
If the playoffs started now and the Caps ended up with the Bruins they would need only 1 win in four road games to advance to the next round. Right?

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01-23-2009, 09:01 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
If the playoffs started now and the Caps ended up with the Bruins they would need only 1 win in four road games to advance to the next round. Right?
as long as they sweep at home.....yes

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01-24-2009, 12:59 AM
  #61
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Flyers and Pens are the teams I would least like them to play in the first round. I'd actually rather see the Bruins then the Flyers right now and even if you beat the Flyers they make you pay for it with blood. They're mean and dirty and somebody is bound to get hurt.

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01-25-2009, 09:30 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Biscuit Bullet View Post
Not Pittsburgh.

Ideally, they don't even make the playoffs. Wouldn't that be the bees' knees...
I disagree, if we do win a cup, it just won't seem all that great unless we had to go through pittsburgh. Plus we are doing pretty damn well against them this year.

Out of those teams, I can see Buffalo upsetting us, but florida or carolina would probably be a pretty boring series.

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01-25-2009, 09:49 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar View Post
The best Theodore stat out there is that he's never lost in the first round of the playoffs. *knock on wood*
Kovalev said that about himself going into the 1st round series against us Canes too. That changed quickly. Also, if I recall correctly, Theo has never made it past the 2nd round? Not 100% on that but I believe that's the case.

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01-26-2009, 12:35 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
I think Ero here thinks the Caps are pretenders. That they are a regular season team that can't compete in the playoffs.

Actually, San Jose is exactly like that with a track record to prove it. I am a little surprised he chose to use the Sharks as an example of what the Caps are not.

Here is where I think Ero's argument fails. The Caps record against the top 8 teams in the east is 13-3-2. If you think the Pens are going to replace one of them, then there's another 2-0-0 record to add in. I this argument about the Caps would hold more water if their record looked more like Boston's. Where they eat the bad teams alive but barely break even against the good teams. Boston is 0-2-0 vs the Caps and haven't played the Flyers yet.

In my view the Caps play a more complete game when they are up against the best teams. That would tend to indicate that they are a playoff team waiting for the playoff games and less interested than they should be in the daily drudgery of the 82 games schedule.

A final point. Theodore is an erratic goaltender. His lows are bad. However, when he is locked in he is as good as the Vezina and Hart Trophy would indicate. If Theodore brings his A game to a playoff run, he could carry the team to the cup on his own. The question of course is whether they get his A or A- or B+ game for an entire playoff run.
There sure are a lot of big IFs in your post.


My take, the Caps play up or down to their opponant of the day, so yes, like ANY team, they could get hot, their goalie could get hot and they could go deep or even win it all.

Personally, unless the PK gets a lot better and the goaltending shows some serious consistancy over the last few months, I wouldn't bet on the Caps doing more than winning one series.

BTW....I'm not so sure Theo's high end is as you claim, anywhere near Vezina/Hart territory any more. If it is, we haven't seen it this year. However, his low end this season has been much closer to the bottom of the NHL's goalie list. He's certainly played better over the last month, but there's a lot of hockey left to play before I get the warm and fuzzies about his play.

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Old
01-26-2009, 12:39 AM
  #65
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I think the attention, certainly without and perhaps within the Caps' fanbase as well, focuses inordinately on the caliber of the team's goaltending. The defense is the critical weakness, to me. Would this team fare better in the playoffs if it added elite G Roberto Luongo or elite D Chris Pronger before the deadline, as an arbitrary and wholly hypothetical example? To me, a stud on defense would help a good deal more than a heady upgrade in goal right now.

Both positions probably need an upgrade, but the defense desperately so.

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01-26-2009, 12:45 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
I think the attention, certainly without and perhaps within the Caps' fanbase as well, focuses inordinately on the caliber of the team's goaltending. The defense is the critical weakness, to me. Would this team fare better in the playoffs if it added elite G Roberto Luongo or elite D Chris Pronger before the deadline, as an arbitrary and wholly hypothetical example? To me, a stud on defense would help a good deal more than a heady upgrade in goal right now.

Both positions probably need an upgrade, but the defense desperately so.
The inconsistancy on D simply makes the goaltending situation look worse to the outsider looking in. And yes, I agree a defensive upgrade is certainly a critical need (and has been for quite a few Caps teams heading towards the playoffs, but we already knew that).

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01-26-2009, 12:52 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
The inconsistancy on D simply makes the goaltending situation look worse to the outsider looking in. And yes, I agree a defensive upgrade is certainly a critical need (and has been for quite a few Caps teams heading towards the playoffs, but we already knew that).
Totally agree. It was very apparent today, albeit in unusual circumstances, just how human even the league's best goalies look behind defenses that just don't care about defense, or who are playing in wide open systems, or who are offensively minded, or all three.

I am normally not one to suggest big trades, or keen on giving up major assets... but I'd give up a ton of assets for Chris Pronger this March if he truly is available, if it were somehow possible to add him. You would be getting two playoff runs out of that trade with Pronger on your team, playing 28 minutes, at ages 34 and 35.

That's worth... hell, that's worth a lot, in my opinion. Without a game breaker on the back end, and Green doesn't cut it, this team looks to be a couple of years away to me. With a generational talent not yet too old, all bets would be off though. Sky is the limit.

I say that with Theodore in the nets for this year and probably next, too.

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01-26-2009, 01:07 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
Totally agree. It was very apparent today, albeit in unusual circumstances, just how human even the league's best goalies look behind defenses that just don't care about defense, or who are playing in wide open systems, or who are offensively minded, or all three.

I am normally not one to suggest big trades, or keen on giving up major assets... but I'd give up a ton of assets for Chris Pronger this March if he truly is available, if it were somehow possible to add him. You would be getting two playoff runs out of that trade with Pronger on your team, playing 28 minutes, at ages 34 and 35.

That's worth... hell, that's worth a lot, in my opinion. Without a game breaker on the back end, and Green doesn't cut it, this team looks to be a couple of years away to me. With a generational talent not yet too old, all bets would be off though. Sky is the limit.

I say that with Theodore in the nets for this year and probably next, too.
Imagine the freedom Green would have with a monster like Pronger as his partner. Pronger could indeed push this team over the top. The PP and the PK would get an immediate boost. That's a nice thing to dream about.

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01-26-2009, 05:08 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
Totally agree. It was very apparent today, albeit in unusual circumstances, just how human even the league's best goalies look behind defenses that just don't care about defense, or who are playing in wide open systems, or who are offensively minded, or all three.

I am normally not one to suggest big trades, or keen on giving up major assets... but I'd give up a ton of assets for Chris Pronger this March if he truly is available, if it were somehow possible to add him. You would be getting two playoff runs out of that trade with Pronger on your team, playing 28 minutes, at ages 34 and 35.

That's worth... hell, that's worth a lot, in my opinion. Without a game breaker on the back end, and Green doesn't cut it, this team looks to be a couple of years away to me. With a generational talent not yet too old, all bets would be off though. Sky is the limit.

I say that with Theodore in the nets for this year and probably next, too.
Pronger is exactly the type of physical presence they need on that blueline. Whether GMGM can pull something like that off is a whole different story. But it sure would be nice to see.

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01-26-2009, 06:04 AM
  #70
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The Flyers are our hardest opponent in the East. Timonen and Coburn were able to slow down Ovechkin and can do it again. Carter and Richards are huge threats for our defense.

I'm not afraid of the rest of the East.

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01-26-2009, 07:04 AM
  #71
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The Flyers are our hardest opponent in the East. Timonen and Coburn were able to slow down Ovechkin and can do it again. Carter and Richards are huge threats for our defense.

I'm not afraid of the rest of the East.
For a couple of games.

I'm not worried about Ovechkin.

It's players like Flash and Kozlov who need to show up.

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01-26-2009, 07:42 AM
  #72
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I'd love for the Caps to get Pronger. I don't think it will happen. I don't think Pronger will be traded this season. If he were, the Caps have the kind of young players stockpile in the system to do a deal.

With Pronger the Caps win a cup. If they were able to extend his contract, they would be a cup contender every season til Pronger lost his edge.

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01-26-2009, 08:24 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Golden AWe View Post
The Flyers are our hardest opponent in the East. Timonen and Coburn were able to slow down Ovechkin and can do it again. Carter and Richards are huge threats for our defense.

I'm not afraid of the rest of the East.
Along with Boston and probably Philly, I'm also very impressed with how the New Jersey Devils are rounding into form. They will be a tough team this year as well.

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01-26-2009, 08:35 AM
  #74
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I'd love for the Caps to get Pronger. I don't think it will happen. I don't think Pronger will be traded this season. If he were, the Caps have the kind of young players stockpile in the system to do a deal.

With Pronger the Caps win a cup. If they were able to extend his contract, they would be a cup contender every season til Pronger lost his edge.
Pronger is signed for 1 more year and S. Niedermayer is done after this year. I sincerely doubt that Anaheim is going to let both go.

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01-26-2009, 08:43 AM
  #75
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By that I meant extend him after his contract expired. I knew he was signed beyond this season. The Caps give him another three years and they are pretty strong well into the Varlamov era.

I think I would have to disagree with your second point. If they trade Pronger for prospects and picks in order to rebuild the team, it makes no sense at all to keep the already once retired Neidermeyer who's in the last year of his deal.

I could see them trading Neidermeyer and keeping Pronger if they feel like they are going to miss this season but have a realistic chance to make the playoffs next season. Half their roster are pending ufa's. This is the prime time to sell off and rebuild. Since Pronger is signed beyond this season, he might bring more than any of the rentals.

I see no reason for the Ducks to keep Scott of Chris departs.

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