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It's Draft Day: Your offer for No. 1 Overall

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Old
01-24-2009, 01:34 PM
  #226
Varius
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Wow some of those packages are ridiculous for a prospect who *might* be a franchise player...he might only be a superstar or star, or he could even be a bust! (doubtful, but hey it's happened before).

Especially that last NJ one though I do detect the hint of sarcasm in it (it couldn't be a real offer LOL).

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01-24-2009, 01:42 PM
  #227
Darth Milbury
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Threads like this are fun, and we have one every year, so I can hardly complain. But, realistically, if the Isles do get the first overall there PROBABLY (I am not claiming to know what Snow is thinking) are only a few scenarios under which they trade down.

I personally would not be shocked if the Isles had Hedman above Taveres on their chart and SUSPECT that some other teams do as well. So, if the Isles moved down for that reason, I won't be shocked.

I could also see the exact opposite scenario - that is, Hedman rises to the top of the rankings over the course of the year, and the Isles decide they'd rather have some offensive help.

A final scenario is that the Isles love one of the forwards in the 2 3 - 5 range of the rankings, and pick some stuff up in return.

However, at the end of the day, if nothing changes, I'm expecting Taveres or Hedman to get the nod.

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01-24-2009, 01:48 PM
  #228
Jag68Sid87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Threads like this are fun, and we have one every year, so I can hardly complain. But, realistically, if the Isles do get the first overall there PROBABLY (I am not claiming to know what Snow is thinking) are only a few scenarios under which they trade down.

I personally would not be shocked if the Isles had Hedman above Taveres on their chart and SUSPECT that some other teams do as well. So, if the Isles moved down for that reason, I won't be shocked.

I could also see the exact opposite scenario - that is, Hedman rises to the top of the rankings over the course of the year, and the Isles decide they'd rather have some offensive help.

A final scenario is that the Isles love one of the forwards in the 2 3 - 5 range of the rankings, and pick some stuff up in return.

However, at the end of the day, if nothing changes, I'm expecting Taveres or Hedman to get the nod.
I agree, and I think most of us think so too. I was just having some fun for the thread's sake.

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01-24-2009, 01:49 PM
  #229
Darth Milbury
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I agree, and I think most of us think so too. I was just having some fun for the thread's sake.
No harm in that! I think this thread is in the spirt of good fun.

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01-25-2009, 03:16 AM
  #230
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Old
01-25-2009, 04:17 AM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Confusious View Post
NJ:
Zach Parise
3 first round picks
Nicklas Bergfors
Matt Corrente
Massive overpay

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Old
01-25-2009, 06:37 AM
  #232
Chapin Landvogt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Confusious View Post
NJ:
Zach Parise
3 first round picks
Nicklas Bergfors
Matt Corrente
Even if Lou would make this trade, the hockey world would likely continue to rave about his brilliance and claim he once again outplayed the silly Islanders in their world of folly.

This thread being for fun, there's really nothing ensuring NHL careers for either Bergfors or Corrente and the Devils picks will likely always be upwards of 20-22 for the next three years, not that I want to downplay any of these assets.

Parise is one of the young solid NHLers who looks to follow in the footsteps of an Yzerman or Messier from a leadership standpoint. He may hover in the 70-85 point range (only) for the better part of his career (which would still be excellent), but he seems a player of great intangibles and the type who leads teams to victory.

I could never imagine Lou wanting to make this trade and Snow would likely experience a good deal of disappointment, but whether Tavares or Hedman, there's nothing indicating that either would ever even be as important a player as Parise.

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Old
01-25-2009, 12:52 PM
  #233
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Are you comparing Osgood to Brodeur, Roy, Dryden, Parent, Cheevers, Smith, Fuhr, and Plante? rofl

Ask Buffalo if Hasek relied on that team. Ask Philly about Parent. Hell, ask anyone about Plante.[/QUOTE]


I think you are missing my point. People who dismiss Osgood's achievements always claim his record is just due to playing for the Wings, a superior team, for most of his career. Accepting this premis for the sake of discussion, my point was that this contendation could apply to almost every HOFer type tender. Plante won all his Cups with the Canadiens, the powerhouse team of the '50s. Same with Dryden in the '70s,
Smith in the early '80s and Fuhr later in the same decade. Cheevers backstopped the best team in the early '70s, while Parent and the Flyers ruled the roost for 2 consecutive years. So why are these tenders considered "great" while Ozzie is only average at best??? Average tenders don't end up in the top 7(possibly the top 5) in all time NHL wins, which Ozzie will do barring a career ending injury.

As for Hasek, you proved my point. Most consider him to be one of the top three tenders in the last 20 years or so. My question is, if he was so great, why did he not win a Cup in Buffalo?? The answer is quite simple, the rest of the team was NOT good enough!!! Roberto Luongo is considered to be one of the pre-eminent tenders in the game today. Never made the playoffs in Florida and the one time he made it in Vancouver, lost in the second round, even though he had a GAA of 1.77 and a nifty Sv.% of .941. He did his job, but the rest of the team failed to score.
YOU CANNOT SEPERATE A TENDER FROM THE TEAM HE PLAYS ON.

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Old
01-25-2009, 12:56 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIsle View Post
Even if Lou would make this trade, the hockey world would likely continue to rave about his brilliance and claim he once again outplayed the silly Islanders in their world of folly.

This thread being for fun, there's really nothing ensuring NHL careers for either Bergfors or Corrente and the Devils picks will likely always be upwards of 20-22 for the next three years, not that I want to downplay any of these assets.

Parise is one of the young solid NHLers who looks to follow in the footsteps of an Yzerman or Messier from a leadership standpoint. He may hover in the 70-85 point range (only) for the better part of his career (which would still be excellent), but he seems a player of great intangibles and the type who leads teams to victory.

I could never imagine Lou wanting to make this trade and Snow would likely experience a good deal of disappointment, but whether Tavares or Hedman, there's nothing indicating that either would ever even be as important a player as Parise.
Thats kinda weird seeing as at age 24, 47games into the season, he's on pace for 48G-95pts. Let's add in the fact his last two playoff runs he's been PPG, and that hes got some of the best intangibles in the league, and pretty good 2way game..Some might argue he himself is worth more then the mystery 1st overall.

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Old
01-25-2009, 01:56 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemieuxfan View Post
I'm pretty sure, that the NYI would take this.


Staal
2nd

from Pittsburgh

JT please
Sorry pal. Snow hangs up the phone on that one

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Old
01-25-2009, 01:59 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzeigler View Post
Ryan Whitney, Jordan Staal, Max Talbot and the Penguins 2009 1st-round pick

for

Okposo and the Isle's first two draft picks (I'd probably take Hedman)

Pens then could then afford a good UFA LW in the offseason.

Are you insane. The Isles wouldn't trade Okposo so forget that, and I don't think the Islanders make that trade even if KO was taken out.

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Old
01-25-2009, 02:13 PM
  #237
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The only way I see the Islanders trading their pick is if they end up getting the 2nd pick instead of the 1st pick. I would listen to offers for Hedman. Here are a few trades I think would be reasonable:

Hedman and 2nd Rd Pick to Van for Hodgson, Raymond and 1st Rounder in 09

Hedman to Columbus for Filatov and 1st Rounder 09

Hedman and 2nd Rounder to LAK for their #1 pick (6-8) and Jack Johnson

Hedman to Ott for their #1 (4-6) and Erik Karlsson

Hedman to Phx for Boedker, Lisin and Phx #1 Pick

Hedman and 2nd Round Pick to StL for Pietrangelo and Blues #1 (4-6)

Otherwise...thanks but we'll keep what will eventually be the future perennial Norris Trophy Winner

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Old
01-25-2009, 02:31 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIsle View Post
Even if Lou would make this trade, the hockey world would likely continue to rave about his brilliance and claim he once again outplayed the silly Islanders in their world of folly.
Only if his team continued what is going on 15 years of continued excellence, while NYI continues building on their abysmal quarter of a century.

Quote:
I could never imagine Lou wanting to make this trade...
No one with a pulse and an ounce of brain matter would.

A young, proven NHL franchise star....vs. a potential star yet to skate an NHL shift? Please.


Last edited by Trottier: 01-25-2009 at 07:33 PM.
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Old
01-25-2009, 02:51 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Are you nuts? Tavares will be good but not that good.
I do this because if the Habs suck in the playoffs this year, we need to make drastic changes and all of our old guys like Kovy, Saku, Lang, Bouillon, Breezer, Begin, Kostopoulos and Tanguay turn UFA in the summer. So a good option would be to not sign any of them and rebuild. God knows we have enough young players in our bank to save next season if we bring a good portion of them in.

Plus the reversal of pick with the Isles for around 2011 means that if they still suck we get the upcoming Quebec prospect Couturier that will come around that time. A futur all star some have said.

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Old
01-25-2009, 02:56 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
Massive overpay
It takes nothing less than a massive overpay to get the first pick.

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Old
01-25-2009, 03:18 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Whopper88 View Post
It really depends, if we are actually pleading to Snow or to a regular Gm that knows what they are doing.

If it was snow, the Capitals offer their #1 and Nylander...LOL

If it was a legit GM then the Capitals would offer Osala, Morrisson, Bourque and the Caps 1st. That would be for Tavares, if the Islanders fall to #2 and it was Hedman, I would take out Osala.
.... and then you'd get hung up on each time by both GMs.

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Old
01-25-2009, 03:18 PM
  #242
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I think the leafs avoid JT all together. As much as any fan, including myself, would love to see him in the blue and white, it might be best for the team to look in other directions.

For example

Say the leafs get somewhere between 2-6

We keep that pick and draft a forward. Any of these top forwards have the skill to become stars in the NHL so the leafs take their shot.

Using the two/three first rounders that the have acquired for players like Kabs, Kubina, Antropov, Poni, the list goes on and on, send two first rounders to any team in the top 8 so they can draft, if he is still available, Braydon Schenn.

Lets say the leafs happen to draw third and Taveras and Hedman go 1-2. The leafs could have 2 top picks in this years draft plus the posibility of another late first rounder. This franchise is in desperate need of "Blue Chip" prospects and with Luke already aboard, the leafs are three or four moves away to having a very explosive and young line-up.

What do you guys think...

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01-25-2009, 03:28 PM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovacro View Post
LA offers up:

Patrick O'Sullivan
Wayne Simmonds
Brian Boyle
Tomas Hickey
1st rd pick 2009
3rd rd pick 2009
2nd rd pick 2010
2nd rd pick 2011

Islanders give:
1st overall 2009
Sean Bergenheim

..bingo, bango, dunno.
Hmmmm. That is a lot of moola on the table, but I think I might be crazy enough to bust out a pen on that one. Tavares and Bergenheim in LA without giving up a piece of the core? Where is the dotted line?

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01-25-2009, 04:03 PM
  #244
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Whatever Lindros got.....

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Old
01-25-2009, 04:49 PM
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I personally would not be shocked if the Isles had Hedman above Taveres on their chart and SUSPECT that some other teams do as well. So, if the Isles moved down for that reason, I won't be shocked.
Pretty sure the Isles guessed that the Blue Jackets wouldn't pick Filatov last year at #6, and that's part of why they traded down.

So who knows. Although if Toronto's at #2 it's probably a safe bet that they'll take Tavares if we trade with them.

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Old
01-25-2009, 06:33 PM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izzo View Post
Pretty sure the Isles guessed that the Blue Jackets wouldn't pick Filatov last year at #6, and that's part of why they traded down.

So who knows. Although if Toronto's at #2 it's probably a safe bet that they'll take Tavares if we trade with them.

And, the evidence for that is what? There were a couple of rumors on this board that somebody had seen Snow with a "Filatov" jersey at the draft (which indicates exactly nothing to me). But, other than that, I see no reason to believe Snow wanted any other outcome than exactly what happened.

I'd like to see a vague hint of evidence that the Isles wanted Filatov - and here I'm not talking about what posters at Hfboards say they saw at the draft.

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Old
01-25-2009, 07:27 PM
  #247
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by Arjun View Post
Thats kinda weird seeing as at age 24, 47games into the season, he's on pace for 48G-95pts. Let's add in the fact his last two playoff runs he's been PPG, and that hes got some of the best intangibles in the league, and pretty good 2way game..Some might argue he himself is worth more then the mystery 1st overall.
Actually, that's more or less the point of the post I made.

Parise could very well be better/have a better career/be a more important part of a winning club than either Tavares or Hedman ever will be.

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Old
01-25-2009, 07:35 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by CIsle View Post
Parise could very well be better/have a better career/be a more important part of a winning club than either Tavares or Hedman ever will be.
Exactly. You draft Taveras with the hope he will have as great an same impact on your team that Parise has on his at such a young age.

One is potential, the other is potential realized. Big difference.

Here on HF, "hope" is too often substituted for "assumption".

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Old
01-25-2009, 07:42 PM
  #249
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Only if his team continued what is going on 15 years of continued excellence, while NYI continues building on their abysmal quarter of a century. The hockey world evaluates a GM like Lou Lamoreillo on franchise results. Not micro-analyzing each transaction, as is done here. In that regard, yes, the "raving about his brilliance" and claims of his "outplaying the silly Islanders" is 100% correct.

Compared to his peers, he is unquestionably among the very best execs in the game over the last few decades including this very moment. Compared to the drek that NYI has had in its front office, any comparsion is farcical. Why you and others would sarcastically suggest otherwise is odd. Is it so hard to acknowledge true accomplishment in others?
I don't know if Lou has ever made the Isles look silly through direct handlings with the Islanders. Can't think of an example off the top of my head. That he runs a much better shop certainly isn't being questioned.

Actually, the sarcasm I used wasn't directed towards Lou.

Continued...
Quote:
A young, proven NHL franchise star (Parise)....vs. a potential star yet to skate an NHL shift? Please.
This was actually more or less exactly the point with respect to countering the suggested offer.

The sarcastic bit about folks still praising Lou if he would (be so foolish as to) make such a theoretical move that would likely be more detrimental to the Devils than not has much more to do with slighting the fans that hold Lou or any exec/scouting department to be infallible than any slight to Lou himself. It's OK though... I can understand if folks might misinterpret that.

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Old
01-26-2009, 04:43 PM
  #250
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