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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
01-23-2009, 03:08 PM
  #51
1927
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Originally Posted by section8 View Post
You can keep yours. I wouldn't give a pick for Kaberle. Let along two young puck movers who have camparable stats at less then half the experience.
This whole discussion can go back and forth all day, without any resolve. It has been brought up that both teams do not have a need for this deal. This is a good assessment on the situation.

Section8, I would love to see that pick score 50+ points in three years straight as a defenseman. Depending on a teams need this year, some GM will pay for a defenseman who has attained 50+ points in three seasons, and is on pace again to repeat. We can all agree that Kaberle is a top pairing defenseman, and Gilbert will become an excellent defenseman in this league.

At this time, both teams do not have use for this trade as it serves no purpose. Toronto has too many defensemen right now, and to add another two would be counter productive. Edmonton would have a need for Antropov, but Kaberle would only be a good addition if either Souray or Visnovsky got injured long term.

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Old
01-23-2009, 07:06 PM
  #52
WildWolfdog
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
You overrate these stats so much.

They don't take into account the players these guys play with, who they play against, or the teams they are on.

Theres a reason Kaberle's stats aren't as good, and its because he plays on a bad hockey team (no offense Leaf fans). Swap Kaberle with any Oiler d-man, and all of a sudden the Oiler d-man would have worse stats and Kaberle would have far better stats.

There is also something wrong with any stat that measures points per minute/hour. You can't go under the assumption that a player producing at a high rate in limited ice time would carry those numbers over when they started playing more. An increase in ice-time generally leads to an increased level of opponent and usually when that happens, production goes down.

I'm against the trade because I don't think it works for the Oilers. Kaberle is a very good hockey player, but he shoots the same hand as Visnovsky and Souray and losing 2 top 4 d-men for 1 just doesn't work as the Oilers have no one who could slide into the #4 slot.

If Kaberle was an Oiler he'd be right up there with Visnovsky as the Oilers best d-man (Souray coming in at 3rd)
I didn't want to get involved in the thread but I had to post and say thank you for a sane and reasonable post.

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Old
01-23-2009, 08:35 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
You overrate these stats so much.

They don't take into account the players these guys play with, who they play against, or the teams they are on.

Theres a reason Kaberle's stats aren't as good, and its because he plays on a bad hockey team (no offense Leaf fans). Swap Kaberle with any Oiler d-man, and all of a sudden the Oiler d-man would have worse stats and Kaberle would have far better stats.

There is also something wrong with any stat that measures points per minute/hour. You can't go under the assumption that a player producing at a high rate in limited ice time would carry those numbers over when they started playing more. An increase in ice-time generally leads to an increased level of opponent and usually when that happens, production goes down.

I'm against the trade because I don't think it works for the Oilers. Kaberle is a very good hockey player, but he shoots the same hand as Visnovsky and Souray and losing 2 top 4 d-men for 1 just doesn't work as the Oilers have no one who could slide into the #4 slot.

If Kaberle was an Oiler he'd be right up there with Visnovsky as the Oilers best d-man (Souray coming in at 3rd)
Simple test of your theory is that if the other dmen are bringing him down there stats will clearly be worse.

Player----[Qual of Comp]----[Qual of teammates]
Van Ryan----[.02]----[.02]
Schenn----[.01]----[.07]
Finger----[-.01]----[-.04]
Kubina----[-.02]----[.07]
Kaberle----[-.02]----[.08]
White----[-.03]----[.01]
Stralman----[-.03]----[.08]

So kaberle, kubina and white face the softest competition. Kaberle does it with the best teammates. Its the kind of set-up you give a rookie. Oh wait Schenn and Van ryan are facing the toughest comp. With this kind of soft protection Kaberle must be terring it up versus the other dmen.

Lets check!

Player----[Even pts/60]----[Goals against/60]
van ryan----[1.23]----[2.96]
stralman----[1.02]----[2.65]
White ----[1.00]----[2.43]
Finger----[.83]----[2.81]
Kubina----[.82]----[3.05]
Kaberle----[.76]----[3.19]
Schenn----[.30]----[2.54]

Kaberle is the 6th best points producer at ev on the team. He is 7th best Ga on the team. 10th worst in the league.

So we have a dman who faces the softest minutes with the best teamates, Produces the 2nd worst ev pts rate and is one of the worst defensive dmen in the league.

Spawn: Your priceless. Your saying I put to much emphasis in stats. Stats are results. This dman is an EV nightmare. An embarassment.

Your paragraphs of prose was nice writing. In regards to Kaberle its all B*** S***.


Last edited by oilerbear: 01-23-2009 at 08:41 PM. Reason: LAst line edit.
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Old
02-03-2009, 06:45 PM
  #54
Transplanted Caper
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Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
Bah ha ha ha ha! Kaberle is a #5 Dman on our team.
Awesome.

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Old
02-03-2009, 07:04 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by AddMan3001 View Post
...Fine...so stats are king, eh?

Kabs
GP G A P +/- PIM SHTS PCT
Total NHL 728 73 358 431 +41 206 1061 6.88

Grebeshkov
GP G A P +/- PIM SHTS PCT
Total NHL 147 7 38 45 -9 62 96 7.29

Kabs: Averaging .59 points per game
Grebs: Averaging .30 points per game

Kabs: Career +41
Grebs: Career -9

Yes, Grebeshkov has plenty of room to grow, and very well may have a much better career than Kaberle, but the way you assume that what he's done in half a season will continue is downright wrong. You can't predict things such as injuries, cold-streaks, getting stuck with a bad partner that screws up his offensive / defensive game, etc, yet you talk as though it's already been determined...as if your "stats" are 100% accurate and based on fact, yet they aren't. I know you'll respond to this post with some insults, and most likely more "useful" statistics that have been bent to the point of breaking in order to prove your point, but anyone that watches Leaf hockey even occasionally knows Kabs is a top 4 D-Man on any team. I almost hope Grebeshkov does get traded, just to see what you'll say when he doesn't bring back a package worthy of one of the "top 9 elite D-Men in the league."
nicely done...man some EDM fans are such homers on this .....how much u guys undervalue a TOP offensive D in the entire nhl is so sad....

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Old
02-03-2009, 07:10 PM
  #56
Joey Moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
Kaberle is better than every single player on Edmonton's roster
umm, Hemsky,Souray,Vishnovsky all say hi! Just another leaf fan massively overating they're players.

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Old
02-03-2009, 07:13 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
umm, Hemsky,Souray,Vishnovsky all say hi! Just another leaf fan massively overating they're players.
agreed in fact i view him = with Vishnovsky as there so much alike

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Old
02-03-2009, 07:47 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
umm, Hemsky,Souray,Vishnovsky all say hi! Just another leaf fan massively overating they're players.
This is a riot. Souray and Visnovsky? Come on. I'll concede you Hemsky, because I'm a fan of his.

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