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why there aren't future francophone star players in junior...

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Old
01-23-2009, 07:19 PM
  #51
SergeConstantin74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonno93 View Post
montreal is still producing players but the rest of quebec isnt
???

Jordan Caron : Sayabec
Olivier Roy : Amqui
Éric Gélinas: Hull

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01-23-2009, 07:41 PM
  #52
Vasculio
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IMO it's because the actual commissioner of the QMJHL is more about business than development, this league has to be able to make profit. Look at the junior leagues in USA, NCAA, WCHA etc., they exist first and foremost to educate young adults, THEN develop hockey players. So it gives hockey players with a functionnal brain instead of boiled peas. The schedule is also way more school friendly, and the players have more time to train in the spare times...

The main reason is the way the QMJHL is run, that's it, that's all...

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01-23-2009, 09:41 PM
  #53
Bohemian93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
???

Jordan Caron : Sayabec
Olivier Roy : Amqui
Éric Gélinas: Hull
first of all eric gelinas is from st jean saur richeleu in the greater montreal area and im taliking more about the top notch qaulity players like simon despres,nicolas deschamps,louis leblanc,maxime clermont and yassin cisse as a few examples

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01-23-2009, 09:46 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonno93 View Post
first of all eric gelinas is from st jean saur richeleu in the greater montreal area and im taliking more about the top notch qaulity players like simon despres,nicolas deschamps,louis leblanc,maxime clermont and yassin cisse as a few examples
greater MTL is like 60% of the population...

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01-25-2009, 01:44 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pazuzu View Post
IMO it's because the actual commissioner of the QMJHL is more about business than development, this league has to be able to make profit. Look at the junior leagues in USA, NCAA, WCHA etc., they exist first and foremost to educate young adults, THEN develop hockey players. So it gives hockey players with a functionnal brain instead of boiled peas. The schedule is also way more school friendly, and the players have more time to train in the spare times...

The main reason is the way the QMJHL is run, that's it, that's all...
So explain then how the O and the "dub" differ from the Q? They still produce players.

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01-25-2009, 08:25 AM
  #56
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my nephew started pee-wee and it was rather expensive already. when bantam came around my sister really couldn't afford it anymore so that was it. it's a huge strain on a family, financially and in terms of time and effort.

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01-25-2009, 02:13 PM
  #57
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Maybe this is the wrong place to say it, but Canada needs to go the scholastic route with junior hockey sooner than later. It's time to make it public/educational funded. It's right now all about private funded leagues and pretty much either the middle/upper middle class play the game, or the poor struggles to pull it off. I'd rather see kids make their way through school leagues that provide the equipment and travel. It sickens me that just about every Canadian high school has a football field that barely ever produces players, but they don't all have a Hockey arena.

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01-25-2009, 04:32 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Maybe this is the wrong place to say it, but Canada needs to go the scholastic route with junior hockey sooner than later. It's time to make it public/educational funded. It's right now all about private funded leagues and pretty much either the middle/upper middle class play the game, or the poor struggles to pull it off. I'd rather see kids make their way through school leagues that provide the equipment and travel. It sickens me that just about every Canadian high school has a football field that barely ever produces players, but they don't all have a Hockey arena.
It's not the wrong place, and I absolutely agree with you on every point, it's all about cash, private owner don't really care about the kids they 'employ', if they develop or get educated properly, it's all about profit, and I think it's magnified in the QMJHL...

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Old
01-25-2009, 04:42 PM
  #59
Erik Estrada
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Here's a 1987 report by Radio-Canada on the fact playing hockey was losing alot of popularity in Quebec. (http://archives.radio-canada.ca/spor...y/clips/10359/)

A child born in 87 would be 21 or 22 today. It's not rocket science why the level of talent isn't what it was. A bunch of would-be stars and prospects just took a different path in life.

Hockey is part of Quebec folklore, there's no reason it can't be made more attractive. Someone needs to come up with solutions to bridge at least a fraction of the gap between the number of boys playing "pond hockey" 60 years ago and the "registered hockey players" of today.

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01-25-2009, 06:01 PM
  #60
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LETS GO NICOLAS DESCHAMPS!!!!!! (he's destined to be a Hab)

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Old
01-26-2009, 12:59 AM
  #61
Willis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonno93 View Post
actually ontario has almost 13 mil and quebec is stil around 7 mil
Actually 7.7 million, but you are rightin terms of Quebec not growing as fast. Then there is the fact that Alberta and British Columbia have grown significantly as well. Alberta is now 3.6 million and BC 4.4 million, when 20 years ago they were much smaller. Add in the age groups and you get the answer somewhat as Quebec has an above average age vs Ontario and the West.

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/demo31d-eng.htm

Next look at the age growth in actual numbers

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/demo31j-eng.htm

In the young age group Quebec is adding seniors at a faster rate and young adults at a slower rate then Ontario and the West. However this might signal a future drop of players from Ontario as a percentage as the West continues to grow as well.

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01-26-2009, 01:10 AM
  #62
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I would also like to add that I don't buy into the argument that there are less Quebec players due to foreigners as when you look at the percentages, Ontario and the West tend to have a higher proportion of the population that are foreign born vs Quebec in both the cities and province wide.

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/demo47a-eng.htm

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/demo46a-eng.htm

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Old
01-26-2009, 01:14 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Maybe this is the wrong place to say it, but Canada needs to go the scholastic route with junior hockey sooner than later. It's time to make it public/educational funded. It's right now all about private funded leagues and pretty much either the middle/upper middle class play the game, or the poor struggles to pull it off. I'd rather see kids make their way through school leagues that provide the equipment and travel. It sickens me that just about every Canadian high school has a football field that barely ever produces players, but they don't all have a Hockey arena.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pazuzu View Post
It's not the wrong place, and I absolutely agree with you on every point, it's all about cash, private owner don't really care about the kids they 'employ', if they develop or get educated properly, it's all about profit, and I think it's magnified in the QMJHL...
First off, we do not have enough infrastructure, ie. schools, universities, to support the amount of hockey players in Canada. Secondly, it would be too costly to support the transformation from private funded to public funded. Thirdly, why would we change the system that has brought us for the most part, the best junior development leagues in the world. We have won 5 WJC golds in a row, you don't drastically change soomething that is bringing you world class success. Lastly, you don't take away teams that have become a part of a city or town, not only are they sometimes vital to a towns economy, but also a part of thier history or heritage. Not to mention the size of the sector and how many jobs it produces.

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Old
01-26-2009, 01:15 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Maybe this is the wrong place to say it, but Canada needs to go the scholastic route with junior hockey sooner than later. It's time to make it public/educational funded. It's right now all about private funded leagues and pretty much either the middle/upper middle class play the game, or the poor struggles to pull it off. I'd rather see kids make their way through school leagues that provide the equipment and travel. It sickens me that just about every Canadian high school has a football field that barely ever produces players, but they don't all have a Hockey arena.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pazuzu View Post
It's not the wrong place, and I absolutely agree with you on every point, it's all about cash, private owner don't really care about the kids they 'employ', if they develop or get educated properly, it's all about profit, and I think it's magnified in the QMJHL...
First off, we do not have enough infrastructure, ie. schools, universities, to support the amount of hockey players in Canada. Secondly, it would be too costly to support the transformation from private funded to public funded. Thirdly, why would we change the system that has brought us for the most part, the best junior development leagues in the world? We have won 5 WJC golds in a row, you don't drastically change soomething that is bringing you world class success. Lastly, you don't take away teams that have become a part of a city or town, not only are they sometimes vital to a towns economy, but also a part of thier history or heritage. Not to mention the size of the sector and how many jobs it produces.

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01-26-2009, 01:16 AM
  #65
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Now when we look at the issue with the so called more things to do so you have less players well look at the Urban vs Rural populations of Ontario or the West vs Quebec. With Ontario, BC and Alberta actually having a larger percentage of their populations being urban than Quebec and Atlantic Canada and Saskatchewan having the lowest population. Now we know that Quebec produces a higher percentage of players relative to its population of Canada vs any Atlantic province and Manitoba, while Saskatchewan produces a higher percentage vis a vis its % of Canada population and its fairly rural. So I dont think this is a reason.

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/demo62a-eng.htm

(go to the each province to see %ages if you wish)

So at the end of the day the only things that make sence to me is the West and Ontario are growing faster than Quebec and have a younger population therefore would start to produce more players and at a greater percentage than Quebec and finally there is an issue with the developmental system itself which I cannot comment on as I have never been part of it.

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Old
01-26-2009, 07:02 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
First off, we do not have enough infrastructure, ie. schools, universities, to support the amount of hockey players in Canada. Secondly, it would be too costly to support the transformation from private funded to public funded. Thirdly, why would we change the system that has brought us for the most part, the best junior development leagues in the world? We have won 5 WJC golds in a row, you don't drastically change soomething that is bringing you world class success. Lastly, you don't take away teams that have become a part of a city or town, not only are they sometimes vital to a towns economy, but also a part of thier history or heritage. Not to mention the size of the sector and how many jobs it produces.
I think that getting your kid an education is far more important than winning a WJC. There is so many kids that flush their life away after their chilhood dream is not possible anymore. Joinning sports and school is the best thing to do for the kids and the society and it would probably produce more players out of Quebec. However like you said, doing so would mean a lot of government funds and infrastructure changes which makes it virtually impossible to happen.

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Old
01-26-2009, 09:33 AM
  #67
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Interesting points made here, the one that merits the most research would be the single-parent issue. We have a lot, lot, lot of single parent homes in Quebec and it is difficult for a single parent to do all the tasks of a normal family, which includes bringing boys to their games.

I would be interested in seeing a study of NHL players to see what percentage of players came from single parent families, see how it stacks up against the national average.

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Old
01-26-2009, 03:23 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcpenny View Post
I think that getting your kid an education is far more important than winning a WJC. There is so many kids that flush their life away after their chilhood dream is not possible anymore. Joinning sports and school is the best thing to do for the kids and the society and it would probably produce more players out of Quebec. However like you said, doing so would mean a lot of government funds and infrastructure changes which makes it virtually impossible to happen.
I think education is very important, but who said that junior players don't recieve an education? There are more instances where a player gets offered a scholarship because he plays hockey at a high level than if he didn't. Junior players definitely miss school alot, but it is their choice to do so. Most players that play college hockey, do not even come close to finishing their degrees anyway. As far as I am concerned, high school is just as meaningless as a WJC. I just don't see where you get this "flushing" thier lifes down the drain from, what does the Canadian hockey program have to do with the life choices down the line of the players?

When it comes down to it, the point of having developmental hockey programs and leagues is to produce the best players possible, not for them to recieve an education, that they may or may not recieve if it were pubically funded.

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Old
01-26-2009, 05:12 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willis View Post
Now when we look at the issue with the so called more things to do so you have less players well look at the Urban vs Rural populations of Ontario or the West vs Quebec. With Ontario, BC and Alberta actually having a larger percentage of their populations being urban than Quebec and Atlantic Canada and Saskatchewan having the lowest population. Now we know that Quebec produces a higher percentage of players relative to its population of Canada vs any Atlantic province and Manitoba, while Saskatchewan produces a higher percentage vis a vis its % of Canada population and its fairly rural. So I dont think this is a reason.

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/demo62a-eng.htm

(go to the each province to see %ages if you wish)

So at the end of the day the only things that make sence to me is the West and Ontario are growing faster than Quebec and have a younger population therefore would start to produce more players and at a greater percentage than Quebec and finally there is an issue with the developmental system itself which I cannot comment on as I have never been part of it.
good point on the trends in population growth.

There are a few other factors that have an impact of varying degree as well. The growth of soccer in Quebec is a factor, you can link this to cost or demographics. The continuing emphasis of Hockey Quebec to offer a participation product rather than a true elite development product (and not that there is anything wrong with that as long as they are aware of the ramifications). Lack of training facilities similar to what is available in some of the other areas that currently produce a lot more players.

On the bright side, QMJHL was never noted for developing very good NHL caliber D. That seems to be changing these days (as puck moving skilled D seem to be more in demand over the behemoths of the past).

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Old
01-26-2009, 05:18 PM
  #70
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I think video games are a factor... but it is a general problem with all the sports and it does not affect Quebec only.

They need to chance the whole hockey system and lower the cost per kid as well.

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