HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

Will Ales Hemsky become a superstar?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-19-2009, 10:20 PM
  #1
One Trick Pony*
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,022
vCash: 500
Will Ales Hemsky become a superstar?

Simple question, yes or no. I don't feel I have to elaborate. All things considered.

One Trick Pony* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 10:22 PM
  #2
Morozov
The Devil Killer
 
Morozov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,439
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Morozov
No, there are only so many "superstars" and Hemsky is not on that level nor will he ever be.

Morozov is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 10:31 PM
  #3
DaveMatthew
Registered User
 
DaveMatthew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 6,650
vCash: 500
Cracking 25 goals or 80 points would be a start...

Right now, he's a good first liner, but he's certainly not at the level of guys like Ovechkin, Zetterberg, Malkin, Crosby, Iginla, etc.

Can he become a superstar? Who knows. Personally, I think this is about as good as he'll get, but he's only 25, so I could be proven wrong.

DaveMatthew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 10:32 PM
  #4
vcx*
 
vcx*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Penguins Fan
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,783
vCash: 500
No but he is one heck of a player. Just not going to be a superstar but that's not something to take offense to, not at all.

vcx* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 10:33 PM
  #5
Blackfader*
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 978
vCash: 500
Slim to no chance. Superstar=top 10 player in the league only id say. Even then thats stretching it. Probably just Malkin, Ovy, Crosby, Lids, and Brodeur.

Blackfader* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 10:33 PM
  #6
Patrick96
 
Patrick96's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 988
vCash: 500
He is one.

Patrick96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 10:34 PM
  #7
No Quarter
Registered User
 
No Quarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Turtle Creek PA.
Posts: 11,366
vCash: 500
He's been around awile, I'd say he's probably close to his peak.

No Quarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 10:37 PM
  #8
Spawn
Registered User
 
Spawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,539
vCash: 500
Superstar... no

I don't think he'll ever be one of the leagues most elite players. Ovechkin, Iginla, Crosby, Malkin ect...

I do think he is a star player though. He's a good enough hockey player that he can take a game over and dominate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Quarter View Post
He's been around awile, I'd say he's probably close to his peak.
He's continued to get better since the lockout. He's a better hockey player now than he was last year, I don't know why he'd stop getting better. He's only 25 years old.

Spawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 10:55 PM
  #9
oilsands
shut 'em down.
 
oilsands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Halland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,723
vCash: 500
You should be careful to define 'superstar'. In my opinion the deal goes like this, and this is just my opinion, but... here it is:

Franchise Player:

The top players in the league, perrenial all-stars and frequently at tops of award voting consistently. You can have serious gaps in your team, but they can overcome with their shear ability to impact the game. This list has 13 players IMO, your top 7 forwards, top 3 D, and top 3 Goalies. My list below is arguable.

Top 7 forwards in the league (Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, Iginla, Thornton, Lecavlier, Zetterberg), Top 3 Defensemen (Lidstrom, Chara, Pronger), Top 3 Goalies (Luongo, Broduer, Lundqist)

Superstar:

These are guys who are quite often the best player on their team, but not necessarily (Hossa, Datsyuk, Spezza). Their names are usually flirted with in the bottom echelons of my above list, and for most purposes, can be interchanged. AKA, you could say that at time Hossa is a Franchise player, their names combat with players who could fall down to this list. The biggest drawback for these guys, is that they do not dominate *every* year like the franchise players, even though for short periods of time they can be the best at their job. Consists of perhaps 9 forwards, 4 D, and 4 Goalies, for example:
8 forwards (Heatley, Kovalchuk, Spezza, Alfredsson, Savard, Datysuk, Hossa, Getzlaf)
4 D (Phaneuf, Kaberle, Neidermeyr, Bouwmeester)
4 G (Nabokov, Kipper, Gigeure, Vokoun)

These guys are all typically allstars for large parts of their careers. They also receive large numbers of votes for hardware.

Star:

This list typically contains 'the next' superstar and franchise players. Guys who are too young to have made a consistent impact, or else are largely excellent but inconsistent. Generally, unless they completely dominate at a young age (Crosby, Malkin, Phaneuf) these players are knocked down to this list by the sheer consistency of older players in the above list.

These are guys who may be the best players on their team, but are not developed or good enough to carry the team to excellence on their own. They may have been an all-star once or twice in their career. Players in this list are guys like:

Vanek, Hemsky, Nash, Richards, St. Louis, Kane, Parise, Richards, Morrow, Kopitar
Weber, Keith, Souray, Visnovsky, McCabe
Backstrom, Dipietro, Turco

Typically, they won't be perennial all-stars yet, or if they are older players: may have had one to three years where they one a couple awards, but that is it.

Elite:

These guys are generally, on a deep team: top 6 forwards, top 3 d-men, 'average' starters, and on weak teams: top liners and number 1 and/or 2 dmen. Usually older guys.... for their younger contemporaries get bumped to the above lists for accomplishing the same feats 5-10 years earlier than them.

Think of guys like:

Ryan Smyth, Gionta, Arnott, Gomez, Frolov, Briere
Kubina, Komisarek,
Toskala, Khabibulen


So this in my opinion, is a rough breakdown of the different status' of great players in our game. IMO this list is constantly fluctuating and evolving. Consistency nets you higher regard, as does all-star appearances over a career, votes for awards, etc. Guys who have had maybe 1-2 breakout seasons are not necessarily thrown into higher categories *yet*. In some cases, you could make an argument for a guy like Kovalchuk to be a franchise player, or that a guy like Souray is merely *elite*.

To sum up, Hemsky is at the 'star' level of player. He is the best forward on our team, and at only 25, I expect to see him gunning at 80-90 points per year for the foreseeable future. Like the argument with Nash, *if only he had better linemates....this and that.* works against him. Hemsky and Nash both have holes in their game which stop them from reaching super-stardom and franchise levels. But I fully expect both of them to be on that next list within 1-2 years.

oilsands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 10:59 PM
  #10
Blackfader*
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 978
vCash: 500
Id argue superstar is pretty close to franchise player. Spezza and savard arent superstars. They are stars. Superstar=name some hockey outsiders would know. Aka top 5 players mostly. Brodeur, Roy, etc. Kipper as a superstar. He sucked the last 2 years...

Blackfader* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 11:09 PM
  #11
One Trick Pony*
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,022
vCash: 500
My classification of Franchise player.

Franchise player: Someone who can carry the team on their back and win many games all by themselves. 10 forwards (Ovechkin,Malkin,Crosby,Iginla,Thornton,Lecavalier ,Kovalchuk,Zetterberg,Heatley,
Datsyuk) 5 Defenseman (Lidstrom,Pronger,Chara,Niedermayer, Zubov) 3 Goalies(Luongo,Brodeur,Lundqvist)

A superstar is just below that level. A Forward who can score 80-90 Points. A defenseman who can get Top nominations for the Norris Trophy, a Goalie who really stands out in the league but is not part of the best.

One Trick Pony* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 11:15 PM
  #12
oilsands
shut 'em down.
 
oilsands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Halland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,723
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Trick Pony View Post
My classification of Franchise player.

Franchise player: Someone who can carry the team on their back and win many games all by themselves. 10 forwards (Ovechkin,Malkin,Crosby,Iginla,Thornton,Lecavalier ,Kovalchuk,Zetterberg,Heatley,
Datsyuk) 5 Defenseman (Lidstrom,Pronger,Chara,Niedermayer, Zubov) 3 Goalies(Luongo,Brodeur,Lundqvist)

A superstar is just below that level. A Forward who can score 80-90 Points. A defenseman who can get Top nominations for the Norris Trophy, a Goalie who really stands out in the league but is not part of the best.
So you more or less agree with me?

oilsands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 11:18 PM
  #13
Klaus*
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: dead
Country:
Posts: 15,014
vCash: 500
Before Hemsky got injured this season he was on pace for almost 30 goals and around 55 assists for 85 points. So I don't think it's unreasonable that he can never reach something close to that status. What defines superstar? It's such a ridiculous term anyway.

I'd like it explained to me how at 25 some actually believe Hemsky has reached his peak potential? He's been improving every year and he's taken another step this season.

Klaus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 11:22 PM
  #14
Morozov
The Devil Killer
 
Morozov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,439
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Morozov
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynegetic Dawg View Post
Before Hemsky got injured this season he was on pace for almost 30 goals and around 55 assists for 85 points. So I don't think it's unreasonable that he can never reach something close to that status. What defines superstar? It's such a ridiculous term anyway.
Hard to define superstar but 85 points as a winger over a full season certainly wouldn't constitute it.

Morozov is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 11:25 PM
  #15
Novak Djokovic
MARC METHOT's #1 FAN
 
Novak Djokovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,618
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynegetic Dawg View Post
Before Hemsky got injured this season he was on pace for almost 30 goals and around 55 assists for 85 points. So I don't think it's unreasonable that he can never reach something close to that status. What defines superstar? It's such a ridiculous term anyway.

I'd like it explained to me how at 25 some actually believe Hemsky has reached his peak potential? He's been improving every year and he's taken another step this season.
85 points mean nothing for a "superstar". For me, there are only about 10 players in the league who are superstars, and no disrespect to Hemsky, but he's just not at that level. To be a superstar, you have to score [obviously], but also be a factor game in and out [somehow] and do that consistenly.

Also, 05-06 to 06-07, did he improve, in your opinion?

Novak Djokovic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 11:26 PM
  #16
syz
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
syz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,214
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
Hard to define superstar but 85 points as a winger over a full season certainly wouldn't constitute it.
What if he did it while playing with a fridge and a third line center?

syz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 11:29 PM
  #17
Morozov
The Devil Killer
 
Morozov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,439
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Morozov
Quote:
Originally Posted by syz View Post
What if he did it while playing with a fridge and a third line center?
Still no "superstar" Jagr was a superstar, Ovechkin is a superstar. Hemsky will never be on that sort of level. Superstars don't have excuses about line mates to elevate them to that "superstar" status.

Morozov is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 11:30 PM
  #18
Klaus*
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: dead
Country:
Posts: 15,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by #11_THEBEST! View Post
85 points mean nothing for a "superstar". For me, there are only about 10 players in the league who are superstars, and no disrespect to Hemsky, but he's just not at that level. To be a superstar, you have to score [obviously], but also be a factor game in and out [somehow] and do that consistenly.

Also, 05-06 to 06-07, did he improve, in your opinion?
Points isn't the end all be all in my opinion. 05-06 - 06-07, yes - I would say Hemsky improved in many aspects of his game. That season IIRC was an injury riddled one for Hemsky but yet I did see many marked improvements in his game.

This season Hemsky is a game changer almost every night for the Edmonton Oilers, he is their offense and he creates on average 3 or 4 excellent chances a game by himself for the team.

Superstar is a term that holds no water to me anyway; it's a term that harbors a different opinion from everybody as evidenced by this thread. Hemsky may not be a 'superstar' but I do know he is incredibly underrated outside of Edmonton.


Last edited by Klaus*: 01-19-2009 at 11:41 PM. Reason: spelling
Klaus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 11:38 PM
  #19
No Quarter
Registered User
 
No Quarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Turtle Creek PA.
Posts: 11,366
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Superstar... no

I don't think he'll ever be one of the leagues most elite players. Ovechkin, Iginla, Crosby, Malkin ect...

I do think he is a star player though. He's a good enough hockey player that he can take a game over and dominate.



He's continued to get better since the lockout. He's a better hockey player now than he was last year, I don't know why he'd stop getting better. He's only 25 years old.
I think he is a great player though.

No Quarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 11:39 PM
  #20
raab
Where's the Hart?
 
raab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,948
vCash: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
Still no "superstar" Jagr was a superstar, Ovechkin is a superstar. Hemsky will never be on that sort of level. Superstars don't have excuses about line mates to elevate them to that "superstar" status.
Put Hemsky in the South East division and were not having this conversation IMO.

raab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 11:45 PM
  #21
Morozov
The Devil Killer
 
Morozov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11,439
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Morozov
Quote:
Originally Posted by raab View Post
Put Hemsky in the South East division and were not having this conversation IMO.
Superstars don't need arguments about them needing to be in a different division to justify there "superstar" status.

Morozov is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 11:55 PM
  #22
Wheatking
Registered User
 
Wheatking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,249
vCash: 500
Hemsky will never be a superstar but he is pretty damn awesome.

Wheatking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2009, 11:59 PM
  #23
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 28,090
vCash: 500
Superstar? No chance...

Certainly all star potential though...

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 12:18 AM
  #24
Wheatking
Registered User
 
Wheatking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,249
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
Superstar? No chance...

Certainly all star potential though...
I think he's reached the All Star level. Had it not been for Souray having probably the best overall season of his career and that "one guy from each team" rule, Hemsky would probably be going to the game.

He has that "WOW" factor.







These are all this season.

Wheatking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-20-2009, 12:29 AM
  #25
One Trick Pony*
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
Superstars don't need arguments about them needing to be in a different division to justify there "superstar" status.
So is Marian Gaborik a superstar (excluding the injury factor)?

One Trick Pony* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:04 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.