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Sbisa has been reassigned (Feb. 2, 2009 -- post #176 with quotes)

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Old
01-27-2009, 08:53 AM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
First off, in your first example, you're talking about moving franchise players, which is complete apples to oranges. They don't get moved at the frequency you're suggesting with such an example. Carle is a guy Tampa would be willing to trade, Datsyuk is a player the Red Wings simply would not trade in a realistic situation.

Eminger isn't a 7th d-man? He certainly didn't play like a top 6 d-man here. He couldn't crack the top 6 in Washington. He's getting the same chances to play, but look at their roster, it's filled with 3rd pairings. I bet they would have taken Kukkonen if the pot may have been sweetened, or maybe the sub-$1M salary would have been good enough for them. It was rumored it was a salary dump for Tampa, so Jones may not have worked unless we took someone back. Metropolit also made less than Carle, and would be someone I'm sure they didn't plan to have around next season if they were looking to lose salary. Just because it doesn't make a lot of sense for us, it still depends on what went on in the negotiations. Trading Eminger for Carle was good for damage control (even though that was not the idea of the trade. But to think that Eminger + Downie = Carle was the only possible formula for a trade, it's just a tad on the naive side.
Sorry, but I have to

I've been asking you for the last 5 posts to name another formula. you mention Jones, Kukkonen, and Metropolit. Do you understand that those guys have no value? The point is that you can't even name another trade formula because we didn't have the proper assets on our roster.

You really think TB was trading Carle for a salary dump? Sounds to me like you shouldn't be calling anyone naive.

Also, Eminger a 7th D with us when he was probably our 3rd best d-man the time he was here?

EDIT: If you still think Kukkonen has value, why do you think he's been able to go through waivers twice?

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01-27-2009, 09:07 AM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
First off, in your first example, you're talking about moving franchise players, which is complete apples to oranges. They don't get moved at the frequency you're suggesting with such an example. Carle is a guy Tampa would be willing to trade, Datsyuk is a player the Red Wings simply would not trade in a realistic situation.

Eminger isn't a 7th d-man? He certainly didn't play like a top 6 d-man here. He couldn't crack the top 6 in Washington. He's getting the same chances to play, but look at their roster, it's filled with 3rd pairings. I bet they would have taken Kukkonen if the pot may have been sweetened, or maybe the sub-$1M salary would have been good enough for them. It was rumored it was a salary dump for Tampa, so Jones may not have worked unless we took someone back. Metropolit also made less than Carle, and would be someone I'm sure they didn't plan to have around next season if they were looking to lose salary. Just because it doesn't make a lot of sense for us, it still depends on what went on in the negotiations. Trading Eminger for Carle was good for damage control (even though that was not the idea of the trade. But to think that Eminger + Downie = Carle was the only possible formula for a trade, it's just a tad on the naive side.


Vandermeer was better than Modry despite Vandermeer's faults. As someone who watches the Kings, I knew what we were getting in Modry and said I'd rather have Vandermeer. Vandermeer went to Calgary and proved himself, and as the season went on, many others agreed.

Lupul, if they were to trade him, would not be as marketable to other teams, because I'm sure they'd rather do their own contract extension, than what was already done. The question after the season will be is he worth what his extension is, monetarily.

Do you really think homer called them up and said hey we'll give you eminger and downie for Carle and they said...sure why not? This isnt a fantasy league, this is life, thats the job of the GM, thats all he does all day. I can guarentee they spent hours on the phone discussing players for a deal. Just because homer says he didnt throw other names out there doesnt mean he didnt. Maybe he just doesnt want to throw his players under the bus and say hey Metro, we tried trading yor ass but they didnt want you! Either way, whats so bad about that trade, i think its a great trade. Downie couldnt consistantly crack this lineup and in the next couple years he would have an even harder time with giroux and jvr on the every day linup, not to mention nodl and powe.

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Old
01-27-2009, 09:50 AM
  #128
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so who is the 7th d and 8th for the playoffs? once kukkonen clears i dont expect to see him back. is this guenins shot? parent obviously is high on the list but where does syvret come into play?

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01-27-2009, 10:19 AM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Sorry, but I have to

I've been asking you for the last 5 posts to name another formula. you mention Jones, Kukkonen, and Metropolit. Do you understand that those guys have no value? The point is that you can't even name another trade formula because we didn't have the proper assets on our roster.
Why don't they have value? Because they aren't on another team? I'm suggesting an infinite number of possibilities/variables. You're claiming only one of those was possible to happen - the one that did (since it already happened). Mathematics and probability are on my side.

Quote:
You really think TB was trading Carle for a salary dump? Sounds to me like you shouldn't be calling anyone naive.
They're not my words. That was the rumor.

Quote:
Also, Eminger a 7th D with us when he was probably our 3rd best d-man the time he was here?
You were watching a different Steve Eminger than everyone else.

Quote:
EDIT: If you still think Kukkonen has value, why do you think he's been able to go through waivers twice?
Why do other guys go through waivers, and then still get traded later on? (Sometimes). Some teams have no reason to take him for free, and obviously some just don't want him. Others would rather wait to see if he will get put on recall waivers.

The Flyers seem to feel there is a reason to send him to the Phantoms - yet - so if he doesn't have one or both of value or ability, why is he still on the roster (when we know he is unlikely to play another game this season for the Flyers).

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01-27-2009, 10:58 AM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
so who is the 7th d and 8th for the playoffs? once kukkonen clears i dont expect to see him back. is this guenins shot? parent obviously is high on the list but where does syvret come into play?
Kukkonen has cleared twice and is still on the team. No guarantee he won't be come playoff time. It's looking like Sbisa is going to stick around too, so Parent could be as far down as #9.

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Old
01-27-2009, 11:06 AM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
You were watching a different Steve Eminger than everyone else.
He was playing well and improving every game. Is Carle better? Sure, but Eminger wasn't awful, either.

Fact is, a lot of posters weren't happy with trading a first rounder for him, so they were determined to hate the trade. There was a lot of unnecessary bashing of Eminger simply out of spite. He also played the bulk of his games in a Flyer uniform during the 0-3-3 start where nobody looked like a NHL player.

Not that any of this matters, I'm just pointing out that Fly wasn't alone in the observation that he was probably our 3rd best D at the time.

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01-27-2009, 11:21 AM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
He was playing well and improving every game. Is Carle better? Sure, but Eminger wasn't awful, either.

Fact is, a lot of posters weren't happy with trading a first rounder for him, so they were determined to hate the trade. There was a lot of unnecessary bashing of Eminger simply out of spite. He also played the bulk of his games in a Flyer uniform during the 0-3-3 start where nobody looked like a NHL player.

Not that any of this matters, I'm just pointing out that Fly wasn't alone in the observation that he was probably our 3rd best D at the time.
He didn't look like an NHL player after we got out of that either. Coincidence that the Flyers got it together when he was gone? Not 100% but I'm sure somewhat.

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01-27-2009, 11:45 AM
  #133
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I'm done with this debate, it's like talking to someone who permanently has their head stuck in the sand.

First, there is the business that "Pitt didn't know what they had in Goligoski", that's a direct quote and it's pretty frickin stupid.

Then you have the whole, "Well, Jones, Kukkonen, and Metropolit" could have somehow landed Carle.

Finally, you have the whole "well probability is on my side."

Again, PROPOSE A DECENT TRADE PROPOSAL WITH OUR EXISTING ASSETS.

You can't do it. Plain and simple.

EDIT: I also feel obligated to add that this is the same guy who ranks Gagne as the 6th best defensive forward on the team behind luminaries such as Nodl (-11 in 29 games) and Metropolit.

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Old
01-27-2009, 12:01 PM
  #134
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There should totally be an "Excess Testosterone Warning" icon on this thread.

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Old
01-27-2009, 12:56 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I'm done with this debate, it's like talking to someone who permanently has their head stuck in the sand.

First, there is the business that "Pitt didn't know what they had in Goligoski", that's a direct quote and it's pretty frickin stupid.

Then you have the whole, "Well, Jones, Kukkonen, and Metropolit" could have somehow landed Carle.

Finally, you have the whole "well probability is on my side."
You're the one saying that there was only one conceivable way that Carle could have been a Flyer.

Quote:
Again, PROPOSE A DECENT TRADE PROPOSAL WITH OUR EXISTING ASSETS.

You can't do it. Plain and simple.
I did name names, even right after you told me that I didn't, and then used the names I used as proof that I was wrong (about something you said I never did). My point wasn't who it would be, it's that such a combination exists. Specific names are completely irrelevant.

When the trade was made, (almost) everyone said we overpaid for Carle, so obviously I'm not the only one who thought this could have went a different route, but the guys who may or may not have less value to (in retrospect) make the trade more even value wise apparently existed if you look back at the thread when the trade was made. If you search the thread (instead of picking out lines to suit your argument), you'll see that I proposed a swap of Randy Jones and Jussi Jokinen. So technically, I did make a proposal. It is a general principle of mine that I don't make strict proposals other than hypothesizing the value of players.

Quote:
EDIT: I also feel obligated to add that this is the same guy who ranks Gagne as the 6th best defensive forward on the team behind luminaries such as Nodl (-11 in 29 games) and Metropolit.
You feel obligated to go off topic? Grasp at straws much? Prove your point that I HAVE to be wrong about this since (from shortly after I made that statement) was wrong? You apparently haven't followed me close enough as I've since retracted the statement what was made over 2 months ago, about a player who had only played I believe 11 games to that point (not 29), which was a statement that I admitted at the time had tremendous room for error.

It's interesting you say you're done with the debate since you're latest (last?) evidence that there was one and only one possible way to make the Carle trade was to talk about my opinion of the defensive play of the forwards, which is pretty much on the other side of the spectrum of topics we could be discussing. How about admitting that I was right about Sbisa not being able to physically hold up throughout the season?

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01-27-2009, 01:15 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Read the title of the thread . But really, at the moment he is still on the Flyers roster.
From Carchidi's article today.

Quote:
Luca Sbisa, who has been scratched the last four games, made the trip. "He makes us better by being here," Stevens said, adding that the defenseman could be used as a forward if the need arises

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01-27-2009, 02:06 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I did name names
I've been blacklisted at Hop Sing's!?!?

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Old
01-27-2009, 02:24 PM
  #138
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I've been blacklisted at Hop Sing's!?!?
What?

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Old
01-27-2009, 03:38 PM
  #139
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seinfeld quote, and thank god the regular season starts back up tonight!

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01-27-2009, 03:58 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
I've been blacklisted at Hop Sing's!?!?
Money money money money money money money money money money!

Are you a communist?

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01-27-2009, 04:08 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
How about admitting that I was right about Sbisa not being able to physically hold up throughout the season?
You and everybody else on this board including myself. I said he should be sent down after 9 games.

That's like saying that it was correct to vote for Obama. Just because you might have done it doesn't magically make you smarter than everyone else.

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01-27-2009, 04:57 PM
  #142
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You and everybody else on this board including myself. I said he should be sent down after 9 games.
Almost. There was quite a few of us who got berated for even hinting that he made a mistake, while it being qualified with "he's just 18 give him a break"

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01-27-2009, 05:05 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Money money money money money money money money money money!

Are you a communist?
yea, just picked up the daily worker, comrade.

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01-27-2009, 05:48 PM
  #144
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yea, just picked up the daily worker, comrade.
Does it really have personal ads?

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Old
01-28-2009, 10:10 AM
  #145
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Hurricanes GM Roy Stasiuk expects a decision on Sbisa:

"I don't expect (a decision on Tuesday) but anywhere from tomorrow or another 10 days after that, so in between that time-frame we should know one way or another," Stasiuk told Sportsnet.ca on Tuesday.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/junio...ricanes_sbisa/

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01-28-2009, 10:13 AM
  #146
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Why is this guy still on the roster? How many prospects is this organization going to **** over?

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01-28-2009, 10:14 AM
  #147
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Why is this guy still on the roster? How many prospects is this organization going to **** over?
His birthday is in the next couple of days

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01-28-2009, 10:15 AM
  #148
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They should have sent him down from the beginning and signed Jim Dowd.

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01-28-2009, 10:35 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Why is this guy still on the roster? How many prospects is this organization going to **** over?
It's not like they don't have Ryan Parent that they can't call up if it got to that point.

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01-28-2009, 10:43 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
It's not like they don't have Ryan Parent that they can't call up if it got to that point.
having played more nhl games i think sbisa brings more to the lineup then parent. we have two players who need playing time and i think it would hurt sbisa more to play in juniors then it does parent to play for the phantoms.

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