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Scott Niedermayer

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01-28-2009, 02:38 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
Stats do not prove a players value you have to watch them play and Niedermayer has always played better for the ducks in the second half, this isn't NHL09.
And to be honest, he's already showing that the second half is going to be better. He's been about a PPG since about mid-December, I believe. Give or take.

I think a lot of people are getting caught up looking at his stats too much, or listening to what people are saying and making assumptions. Niedermayer doesn't look anything like he did at the start of the season.

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01-28-2009, 02:48 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
And to be honest, he's already showing that the second half is going to be better. He's been about a PPG since about mid-December, I believe. Give or take.

I think a lot of people are getting caught up looking at his stats too much, or listening to what people are saying and making assumptions. Niedermayer doesn't look anything like he did at the start of the season.
It's funny how 50 points for Scott Niedermayer is a"down" year, when all is said and done he'll be close to 60.

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01-28-2009, 03:05 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
It's funny how 50 points for Scott Niedermayer is a"down" year, when all is said and done he'll be close to 60.
Yeah, it is pretty silly, but some people place too much value on paper stats anyway. Sometimes it's the little things a player does that makes them great.

Honestly, I think the chances Niedermayer gets traded are very slim, but even hypothetically the comparison between Campbell and Niedermayer is laughable. I think Trottier's first post in this thread summed it up nicely.

At any rate, we'll see how things go. Niedermayer would command a great deal, there's no doubt about it. Honestly, I hope we never find out what his value is. I think he'll sign a 2-year contract in the off-season, and that might take him to his retirement. If he doesn't, well, that's a shame but I hope he would retire a Duck.

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01-28-2009, 03:57 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
Stats do not prove a players value you have to watch them play and Niedermayer has always played better for the ducks in the second half, this isn't NHL09.
Not disagreeing with you, but if a player "plays better in the second half," wouldn't you expect his stats to increase? After all, you said his scoring should pick up. If his stats don't get better, then is only his defensive play getting better? Seems odd to me if that was the case!

And no, it is debateable who the top 5 are after Lidstrom and Weber. Take a look on this board, a hockey broadcast, or any major hockey website. Also, the fact that you think it isn't debatable that Weber is in the top 2 is equally wrong. Even Lidstrom isn't inarguably in the top 2 (this year)


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01-28-2009, 04:00 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
After Lidstrom and Weber it's very debateable who the top 5 are.
Also, it is not debateable that so far this year, Niedermayer isn't in the debate for top 5 defenseman.

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01-28-2009, 04:08 AM
  #81
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Gillis is probably gonna go after him. Prior to joinning Anahiem, he had Vancouver as a possible location and want to finish his career near his home town.

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01-28-2009, 04:11 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Yeah, it is pretty silly, but some people place too much value on paper stats anyway. Sometimes it's the little things a player does that makes them great.

Honestly, I think the chances Niedermayer gets traded are very slim, but even hypothetically the comparison between Campbell and Niedermayer is laughable. I think Trottier's first post in this thread summed it up nicely.

At any rate, we'll see how things go. Niedermayer would command a great deal, there's no doubt about it. Honestly, I hope we never find out what his value is. I think he'll sign a 2-year contract in the off-season, and that might take him to his retirement. If he doesn't, well, that's a shame but I hope he would retire a Duck.
So you are saying that Phillips + 1st is a serious underpayment? I've never maintained that Niedermayer < Campbell, just that judging by Campbell's return in 2007, when he was one of the most valuable assets on the market (9 or 11 WC GM's made serious inquiries Ruff), coming off an excellent season offensively on a terrible club, combined with Niedermayer's age, his lack of retainability/early retirement, and his drop in play, Niedermayer's return should be Phillips + 1st.

And drop in play, statistics or not, I have seen Niedermayer play, and he is no longer an elite defenseman. He is still a number 1 guy, but he hasn't looked like a Norris contender this year. His play may be on the rise, but we'll see.

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01-28-2009, 04:13 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Not disagreeing with you, but if a player "plays better in the second half," wouldn't you expect his stats to increase? After all, you said his scoring should pick up. If his stats don't get better, then is only his defensive play getting better? Seems odd to me if that was the case?

And no, it is debateable who the top 5 are after Lidstrom and Weber. Take a look on this board, a hockey broadcast, or any major hockey website. Also, the fact that you think it isn't debatable that Weber is in the top 2 is equally wrong. Even Lidstrom isn't inarguably in the top 2 (this year)
Not everything is quantifiable by stats. Niedermayer has always been better in the second half for us, it's a matter of controlling games which isn't something that shows up on stat sheets.

I said it was debateable who the top five D in the WEST were after those two, and it is.

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01-28-2009, 04:14 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Also, it is not debateable that so far this year, Niedermayer isn't in the debate for top 5 defenseman.
Start naming names, while I agree he had a slow start, since mid december for the most part he has played very well.

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01-28-2009, 04:20 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
Not everything is quantifiable by stats. Niedermayer has always been better in the second half for us, it's a matter of controlling games which isn't something that shows up on stat sheets.

I said it was debateable who the top five D in the WEST were after those two, and it is.
Quote:
Niedermayer had a slow start to the year but lately has picked up his play considerably and is still easily a top 5 defenseman in the NHL. Campbell may be superior offensively but thats all he's better at. Not to mention Nieds has won 4 cups and a conn smythe.
That's you, by the way

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01-28-2009, 04:36 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
Start naming names, while I agree he had a slow start, since mid december for the most part he has played very well.
Just in the West, Lidstrom, Boyle, and Weber have clearly out-played Niedermayer.

Off the top of my head, I think that Phaneuf (yes, Phaneuf), Keith, Blake, Rafalski, Pronger, and possibly even Visnovsky are all contending with Niedermayer for the next two spots. Bieksa has had injury troubles, and the whole Canucks team has been slumping, but he was in the running early in the year and IMO turned things around with the game against Atlanta. Out of that group, I don't think Niedermayer is top two, but I'll concede that as my opinion.

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01-28-2009, 04:41 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
That's you, by the way
Umm that was not me,you have done a bad job trying to discredit me in this thread.

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01-28-2009, 04:41 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
Not everything is quantifiable by stats. Niedermayer has always been better in the second half for us, it's a matter of controlling games which isn't something that shows up on stat sheets.

I said it was debateable who the top five D in the WEST were after those two, and it is.
Yes, yes it does! It would show up on the scoreboard, and if not that, it would show up in ice-time. It has to leave some mark on the various stats. Going back to 2005-2006, he has always been a steady, consistent player. The one trend is that he tends to have a spike in stats over a two- or three- game span in March, but that is it.

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01-28-2009, 04:44 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Yes, yes it does! It would show up on the scoreboard, and if not that, it would show up in ice-time. It has to leave some mark on the various stats. Going back to 2005-2006, he has always been a steady, consistent player. The one trend is that he tends to have a spike in stats over a two- or three- game span in March, but that is it.
ok you keep doing boxscore scouting, I will watch him play, and each year after the ASB/Olympic break for us, there has been a noticeable improvement in his play that most duck fans will back me up on.

hell the 05/06 run proves my point completely.

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01-28-2009, 05:50 AM
  #90
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I just don't see the Ducks falling far enough from the playoffs to start selling players.

Now is it possible that they do trade away Niedermayer even if they are 6th-10th place in the west by the trade deadline??

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01-28-2009, 03:25 PM
  #91
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I just don't see the Ducks falling far enough from the playoffs to start selling players.

Now is it possible that they do trade away Niedermayer even if they are 6th-10th place in the west by the trade deadline??
If they are in the top 8 or even top 9 I doubt they trade him.

The Ducks would probably rather resign Niedermayer and trade Pronger if Nieds indicates he wants to return next year.

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01-28-2009, 06:30 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Just in the West, Lidstrom, Boyle, and Weber have clearly out-played Niedermayer.

Off the top of my head, I think that Phaneuf (yes, Phaneuf), Keith, Blake, Rafalski, Pronger, and possibly even Visnovsky are all contending with Niedermayer for the next two spots. Bieksa has had injury troubles, and the whole Canucks team has been slumping, but he was in the running early in the year and IMO turned things around with the game against Atlanta. Out of that group, I don't think Niedermayer is top two, but I'll concede that as my opinion.
Wow. Phaneuf? I'm not even going to bother with the rest of the list, because the first name shows how much of a joke this is. Your value and apparent lack of importance of Niedermayer is just ridiculous. An absolute joke.

And for the record, Boyle and Weber aren't even their team's go-to guys on the penalty kill. Color me unimpressed. Part of being a defenseman is (gasp) playing defense, and while I think Boyle might be better defensively than some people give him credit for, he still doesn't hold a candle to Niedermayer.

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01-28-2009, 06:32 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Wow. Phaneuf? I'm not even going to bother with the rest of the list, because the first name shows how much of a joke this is. Your value and apparent lack of importance of Niedermayer is just ridiculous. An absolute joke.

And for the record, Boyle and Weber aren't even their team's go-to guys on the penalty kill. Color me unimpressed. Part of being a defenseman is (gasp) playing defense, and while I think Boyle might be better defensively than some people give him credit for, he still doesn't hold a candle to Niedermayer.
Boyle and Weber seem like Niche defensemen since they don't kill penalties, give me an all purpose like Niedermayer anyday for a playoff run.

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01-28-2009, 06:36 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Yes, yes it does! It would show up on the scoreboard, and if not that, it would show up in ice-time. It has to leave some mark on the various stats. Going back to 2005-2006, he has always been a steady, consistent player. The one trend is that he tends to have a spike in stats over a two- or three- game span in March, but that is it.
What shows up on the stats are wins and Niedermayer, in the second half, has always taken it to another level and helped carry his team to acquire them.

Stop being such a stat-*****. The game is played on the ice, not on paper. You might try watching the player you're talking about, but somehow I think it's clear you don't, except perhaps when they play San Jose. With your clear objectivity, I'm surprised you haven't started naming players like Vlasic and Ehrhoff.

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01-28-2009, 06:39 PM
  #95
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Boyle and Weber seem like Niche defensemen since they don't kill penalties, give me an all purpose like Niedermayer anyday for a playoff run.
Absolutely. Certainly they are great defensemen, but Lidstrom didn't win all of those Norris Trophies simply because he put up points and looked good statistically. The guy just did (and does) all the little things that don't show up on the scoresheet, and ran the team's defense in every situation.

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01-28-2009, 07:09 PM
  #96
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Gillis is probably gonna go after him. Prior to joinning Anahiem, he had Vancouver as a possible location and want to finish his career near his home town.
Not true. It was either NJ or Anaheim, no one else was even a real option, despite what you may have heard. Anaheim had the advantage having Rob Niedermayer, and without him, no chance he signs in Anaheim.

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01-28-2009, 07:15 PM
  #97
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Not true. It was either NJ or Anaheim, no one else was even a real option, despite what you may have heard. Anaheim had the advantage having Rob Niedermayer, and without him, no chance he signs in Anaheim.
I'm not entirely sure about that. I've actually had the opportunity to speak to Scotty about some of the reasons he came to Anaheim, and some of them were as simple as climate. He said he really likes living in Southern California.

Maybe he doesn't sign with Anaheim if Rob isn't here, but I don't think Rob was the only reason it was a consideration.

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01-28-2009, 07:19 PM
  #98
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Not true. It was either NJ or Anaheim, no one else was even a real option, despite what you may have heard. Anaheim had the advantage having Rob Niedermayer, and without him, no chance he signs in Anaheim.
What are you basing this on?

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01-28-2009, 07:36 PM
  #99
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I could see Niedermayer signing with Vancouver if he won't take a paycut, but after last year I think he does owe the ducks a little bit for being so patient with him. Most of the family lives in Southern cal on atleast a semi regular basis.

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01-28-2009, 07:59 PM
  #100
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I can't see the Ducks not making the playoffs and trading away guys like Pronger. Too much talent and leadership for them to tank that much this year.

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