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Lecavalier to Edmonton

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Old
01-28-2009, 04:36 AM
  #176
hemskysuncle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Oil View Post
There is a huge export business in his (Katz) industry? That is all that needs to be said to prove you don't have a clue about what you are talking. There is no "export" business in Katz's industry. Katz made his money in retail pharmacy, not in drug manufacturing. The drug business is highly regulated and controlled in both Canada and the United States and there is next to zero chance for him to cross borders to expand his business. To consider such is laughable.

Also, the whole facility topic is another that is sad to hear some Oiler fans go on and on about. The guy just blew 1/5th of his networth to purchase the hockey club. That is his networth! That mean he went into hock equivalent to 20 cents on every dollar he had at the time to buy the hockey team. To do what he suggests with the two facilities would mean he would have to come up with another $200K to $300K in cash to get the arena off the ground and the building at the UofA. So he's going to leverage another 20 to 30 percent of his networth to make this happen? Not a chance. That would mean he's putting up his retail empire with the banks to get the money. A guy that is supposed to be as smart as Katz doesn't dip into one business to bail out another and there is no way he's going to put up his primary source of revenues to build a new barn because the fans have a hard-on for it. That is a sure way to go from the penthouse to the outhouse. It was a good story, but I'm not believing it until the ground is broken and the foundation is in place. The likelihood of a new building going up in Edmonton is about the same as Lecavalier playing for the Oilers.
That is an interesting post. However, saying that the other post is "laughable" is a bit presumptuous, I would say. You don't understand business, first of all. Just because he has a drug store in edmonton, doesn't mean that is the sales-point for every bottle of tylenol he sells. He gets tylenol in canada and sells it in canada...he also gets tylenol in the states and sells it in the states. retail is very simple that way.

also, 1/5 of his net worth? the oilers were bought for 500 million?? wow! I thought 200, but i may be wrong!. and then goes the arena: first he isn't dipping into one business to bail out another. it is one business...the katz group. and second, putting up money/collateral from the katz group's assets to fund a project for the katz group is purely normal. The new arena is NOT a reason to make you all giddy because there are new hot dog machines. it is a revenue generator. it is something that brings revenues to the whole city, and in turn, brings more money into his drug stores. Not to mention he just might want to give something back to his city, that has helped him become who he is. It really doesn't seem to me a stupid idea for a large corporation to build an arena and reap the rewards of the revenues it generates through sports, concerts, and other events.

In addition, regardless of the economic downturn, Katz is not going to have much trouble with financing. his business is not in a hugely affected industry, as, even in a recession, people buy drugs. So there really is no issue here.

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Old
01-28-2009, 07:27 AM
  #177
Jimmi Jenkins
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Originally Posted by hemskysuncle View Post
That is an interesting post. However, saying that the other post is "laughable" is a bit presumptuous, I would say. You don't understand business, first of all. Just because he has a drug store in edmonton, doesn't mean that is the sales-point for every bottle of tylenol he sells. He gets tylenol in canada and sells it in canada...he also gets tylenol in the states and sells it in the states. retail is very simple that way.

also, 1/5 of his net worth? the oilers were bought for 500 million?? wow! I thought 200, but i may be wrong!. and then goes the arena: first he isn't dipping into one business to bail out another. it is one business...the katz group. and second, putting up money/collateral from the katz group's assets to fund a project for the katz group is purely normal. The new arena is NOT a reason to make you all giddy because there are new hot dog machines. it is a revenue generator. it is something that brings revenues to the whole city, and in turn, brings more money into his drug stores. Not to mention he just might want to give something back to his city, that has helped him become who he is. It really doesn't seem to me a stupid idea for a large corporation to build an arena and reap the rewards of the revenues it generates through sports, concerts, and other events.

In addition, regardless of the economic downturn, Katz is not going to have much trouble with financing. his business is not in a hugely affected industry, as, even in a recession, people buy drugs. So there really is no issue here.
Just his inferiority complex.

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Old
01-28-2009, 07:45 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
I'll answer for this guy. For such a "learned" individual and economics expert, I wouldn't think simple math would be such a brain buster

2500 additional seats x $80 per seat (give or take a few dollars, considering some seats will be nosebleeds, others luxury boxes)

= $200, 000

x 41 home games

=

$8.2mil

See, you can wear your big boy suit AND multiply... but not before naptime
Save your juvenile insults. They only make you look more stupid when the facts come out and you find that you didn't bother to do any research and understand the concepts being discussed.

Again, reality works everywhere except in Edmonton. The average NHL ticket price is around $45. So you're saying the average seat in a new building would be $80 dollars? Not realistic. Edmonton cannot support a building where the average ticket price is $80. That would be almost a $30 a bump over what they are now and make them the most expensive ticket in the league by almost $20. The folks in Millwoods and Sherwood Park couldn't afford to go to games. A price structure like that would cripple the team and put the NHL game out of the reach of almost every Edmontonian. The actual recoup, based on a flat average price, would be closer to $5 million per season. That is being exceptionally generous considering the majority of new seats going in would be cheaper seats further away from the action.

I keep forgetting that when you wish to discuss issues with my fellow Oiler fans that you must suspend disbelief at the door and completely give into the fantasy that exists from living in the 80's, where "Oiler hockey" is still played and the ghosts of Wayne Gretzky and Jari Kurri possess the players on the bench from time to time. The hard realities of salary caps, scales of economy and currency valuation do not exist when you can remind others that we won 5 (count 'em) Stanley Cups almost 20 years ago and Wayne Gretzky set all of his records wearing our jersey. We can ignore reality and make flippant insults towards others because the vast majority of our fanbase has bought into the delusion and will support such nonsense. We have a billionare owner now, so none of the issues that affect others affect us. We have a billionaire owner damn it and a billion is a lot!

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Old
01-28-2009, 08:29 AM
  #179
Jimmi Jenkins
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Originally Posted by Desert Oil View Post
Save your juvenile insults. They only make you look more stupid when the facts come out and you find that you didn't bother to do any research and understand the concepts being discussed.
They aren't, it's a reality, you continue to take what the Oilers have, be it the solid ownership, the solid pool of prospects and assest,etc, and **** all over it, because you don't think it's good enough. You know what that's called? An inferiority complex, these aren't the Edmonton Oilers of the 1990s and they never will be again.

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01-28-2009, 09:36 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Desert Oil View Post
Save your juvenile insults. They only make you look more stupid when the facts come out and you find that you didn't bother to do any research and understand the concepts being discussed.

Again, reality works everywhere except in Edmonton. The average NHL ticket price is around $45. So you're saying the average seat in a new building would be $80 dollars? Not realistic. Edmonton cannot support a building where the average ticket price is $80. That would be almost a $30 a bump over what they are now and make them the most expensive ticket in the league by almost $20. The folks in Millwoods and Sherwood Park couldn't afford to go to games. A price structure like that would cripple the team and put the NHL game out of the reach of almost every Edmontonian. The actual recoup, based on a flat average price, would be closer to $5 million per season. That is being exceptionally generous considering the majority of new seats going in would be cheaper seats further away from the action.

I keep forgetting that when you wish to discuss issues with my fellow Oiler fans that you must suspend disbelief at the door and completely give into the fantasy that exists from living in the 80's, where "Oiler hockey" is still played and the ghosts of Wayne Gretzky and Jari Kurri possess the players on the bench from time to time. The hard realities of salary caps, scales of economy and currency valuation do not exist when you can remind others that we won 5 (count 'em) Stanley Cups almost 20 years ago and Wayne Gretzky set all of his records wearing our jersey. We can ignore reality and make flippant insults towards others because the vast majority of our fanbase has bought into the delusion and will support such nonsense. We have a billionare owner now, so none of the issues that affect others affect us. We have a billionaire owner damn it and a billion is a lot!
In the post you quoted he did specify that there were assumptions at play. Mainly that some seats would be in the more expensive range and the inclusion of more luxury boxes means that, holding the economy as a non factor, the price range could very well end up in that range on avergae. Remember he's not talking about the average ticket price in Edmonton...rather the average of the additional seats, and if luxury boxes are part of a new building then the additional seats won't be sold at the average rate. Average price of 2500 new seats spread out throughout the building including luxury boxes vs the average price of ~18000 seats. That's a pretty big difference.

Are you even an Oilers fan? You seem pretty doom and gloom about the current situation. The Oilers are in a better position owner wise than many franchises in the league. There are many unlikely things in the world of hockey, but I don't see the benefit gained from trampling all over others opinions.

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01-28-2009, 11:09 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
They aren't, it's a reality, you continue to take what the Oilers have, be it the solid ownership, the solid pool of prospects and assest,etc, and **** all over it, because you don't think it's good enough. You know what that's called? An inferiority complex, these aren't the Edmonton Oilers of the 1990s and they never will be again.
Probably true. I don't think the 90's teams ever set records for goals 'against' and we've already set two halfway though the season..

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01-28-2009, 11:33 AM
  #182
thadd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian28 View Post
In the post you quoted he did specify that there were assumptions at play. Mainly that some seats would be in the more expensive range and the inclusion of more luxury boxes means that, holding the economy as a non factor, the price range could very well end up in that range on avergae. Remember he's not talking about the average ticket price in Edmonton...rather the average of the additional seats, and if luxury boxes are part of a new building then the additional seats won't be sold at the average rate. Average price of 2500 new seats spread out throughout the building including luxury boxes vs the average price of ~18000 seats. That's a pretty big difference.

Are you even an Oilers fan? You seem pretty doom and gloom about the current situation. The Oilers are in a better position owner wise than many franchises in the league. There are many unlikely things in the world of hockey, but I don't see the benefit gained from trampling all over others opinions.
Edmonton is in a great situation financially when you compare them to three quarters of the other teams in the league. They sell tons of tickets, make profit and their owner has enough money that they can afford to go through an economic recession.

The benefit of him being all doomy and gloomy is knowing that when the league wants to move 4 teams or shut down 6, our team won't be one of the teams going anywhere.

Definitely helps me sleep at night.


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Old
01-28-2009, 02:40 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Desert Oil View Post
Save your juvenile insults. They only make you look more stupid when the facts come out and you find that you didn't bother to do any research and understand the concepts being discussed.

Again, reality works everywhere except in Edmonton. The average NHL ticket price is around $45. So you're saying the average seat in a new building would be $80 dollars? Not realistic. Edmonton cannot support a building where the average ticket price is $80. That would be almost a $30 a bump over what they are now and make them the most expensive ticket in the league by almost $20. The folks in Millwoods and Sherwood Park couldn't afford to go to games. A price structure like that would cripple the team and put the NHL game out of the reach of almost every Edmontonian. The actual recoup, based on a flat average price, would be closer to $5 million per season. That is being exceptionally generous considering the majority of new seats going in would be cheaper seats further away from the action.

I keep forgetting that when you wish to discuss issues with my fellow Oiler fans that you must suspend disbelief at the door and completely give into the fantasy that exists from living in the 80's, where "Oiler hockey" is still played and the ghosts of Wayne Gretzky and Jari Kurri possess the players on the bench from time to time. The hard realities of salary caps, scales of economy and currency valuation do not exist when you can remind others that we won 5 (count 'em) Stanley Cups almost 20 years ago and Wayne Gretzky set all of his records wearing our jersey. We can ignore reality and make flippant insults towards others because the vast majority of our fanbase has bought into the delusion and will support such nonsense. We have a billionare owner now, so none of the issues that affect others affect us. We have a billionaire owner damn it and a billion is a lot!

Currently the cheapest seats in the house are $44cdn and they aren't seats. Standing room and there are not that many available.

It then goes:
Gallery - $48 (Supreme nosebleeders)
Collonade - $75
Terrace - $104.50
Executive Terrace - $130.50 (we're still in the upper bowl)

Executive - $143
Silver Club - $200.50
Gold Club - $224

The place sells out every game no matter the opponent.

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Old
01-28-2009, 02:48 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Desert Oil View Post
Again, reality works everywhere except in Edmonton. The average NHL ticket price is around $45. So you're saying the average seat in a new building would be $80 dollars? Not realistic. Edmonton cannot support a building where the average ticket price is $80. That would be almost a $30 a bump over what they are now and make them the most expensive ticket in the league by almost $20. The folks in Millwoods and Sherwood Park couldn't afford to go to games. A price structure like that would cripple the team and put the NHL game out of the reach of almost every Edmontonian. The actual recoup, based on a flat average price, would be closer to $5 million per season. That is being exceptionally generous considering the majority of new seats going in would be cheaper seats further away from the action.
I realize that studying the economy takes up a lot of your time, so I'll give you a break if you've never heard of a place called Toronto

Average price for ticket to Leaf's game last year - $88.32

For Oilers tickets (last years figures) - $61.69

But again, perhaps reading AND interpreting interferes with your well thought and witty replies. Again, as other posters were already able to understand the point I was making, I'll help you with the learning curve.

The current design of Rexall is not going to be template for the new arena. Pretty sure the past 30+ years of every other team (other than the Pens...on the way though) getting a new arena means there's a good chance we get an upgrade on the architectural design of the ol' Northlands building. Will a lot of the additional seats be in the upper bowl - yes, but not all of them. They can expand outward as well as up. They call it a bowl, right? Can you not have wider bowls?

And they already stated that increasing luxury suites would be the first issue they address with the new building. So maybe I'm wrong by a couple bucks, but when you take that average, as well as figure there is no chance in hell we get a new building without a hike in ticket prices, I'm probably not that far off. Not to mention it will be in a couple years, so it could be even higher than 80 by that time.

Don't use league averages when calculating the Oilers numbers. We are in the upper echelon of revenues in this league. You just can't get around your inferiority complex to see that.

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01-28-2009, 05:38 PM
  #185
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Personally I think it would be awesome if Lecavalier gets traded to Edmonton. The Montreal press corps would have an absolute coronary and would be calling for Gainey's firing from here until the end of time.

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01-28-2009, 08:16 PM
  #186
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Forget it. Not worth my time. Allow the delusions to continue.

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01-28-2009, 08:26 PM
  #187
Jimmi Jenkins
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Originally Posted by Desert Oil View Post
Reality. Live with it. If any of the stuff you and the rest of the delusional bunch believed were even half true the Oilers would be running away with the conference. You were predicting great things for this team before the season began. What happened? Reality happened.
Just because you're convinced they're always terrible, and we know they the organization is decent, doesn't mean we all believe they will run away with the division. It's about perspective. You think that the Oilers and all things within, the ownership, prospects, etc, are junk and we, the rest of the fan base know they're not.

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As a trained psychologist please keep your Lucy Van Pelt diagnosis to yourself. I've been told to refrain from mentioning potential illness based on behaviors on the site and I would recommend the same to you. Stick to something you know slightly more about, although it isn't much, and that's your undying love for the spin and misinformation that comes out of the front office of the Oilers hockey club. You would think that after almost two decades of being lied to that you would clue in to the truth and get in touch with reality.
And of course by trained psychologist, you mean took classes in college, I gots the lingo down.

You think that all things Edmonton Oilers in relations to the rest of the NHL, and I mean ALL THINGS, are 2nd rate and terrible. This is simply not true, and leads me to no other conclusion.

I'm hardly saying, you suffer from this condition, but in terms of your view of the Edmonton Oilers as a fan you have an inferiority complex. It's ok to step out of the shadow of the 1990s, things really aren't that bad.

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01-28-2009, 10:16 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Just because you're convinced they're always terrible, and we know they the organization is decent, doesn't mean we all believe they will run away with the division. It's about perspective. You think that the Oilers and all things within, the ownership, prospects, etc, are junk and we, the rest of the fan base know they're not.
No, I think the team is mediocre. In fact, I think the whole organization is mired in mediocrity and has been since the early 90's. Katz talks a good game, but he really nothing more than an average guy in the league in a city that is average in so many metrics. The one area that the club excels at is hype, which makes living up to expectations very difficult.

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And of course by trained psychologist, you mean took classes in college, I gots the lingo down.
No, I mean I have a doctorate in psychology.

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You think that all things Edmonton Oilers in relations to the rest of the NHL, and I mean ALL THINGS, are 2nd rate and terrible. This is simply not true, and leads me to no other conclusion.
No, I do not take that position. I take the position of recognizing the reality that faces the club. There are way too many fans that take the stance that the club is the best at every turn of the corner, when they are not. For example, Katz is the best owner in the league and is going to do wonders with the Oilers. The reality is ownership is slightly average and he really is in no better position than EIG was, thanks to the cap. I would say that Oilers fall into the uper portion of the middle group of 10 teams and find themselves in the same boat as Ottawa in many ways. Not the best ownership, but far from the worst. From a player and prospect point of view, I think the Oilers are in the 18-22 range of teams. Outside of Hemsky they don't have any consistent star talent. Their young players have a ton of hype surrounding them but are not living up to the hype in any shape or form. Cogs is the best of the bunch and he really is a guy that will excel on the second and third lines. All I see is a bunch of small skilled guys who are trying to play in a big man's game. If the prospects were better and lived up to the hype the Oilers would be more like the Sabres than the team that currently lines up at Rexall. If the team were as good as so many of the fans suggest they would not struggle year after year to improve, would not struggle to attract talent and would not have to over-pay to retain players.


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I'm hardly saying, you suffer from this condition, but in terms of your view of the Edmonton Oilers as a fan you have an inferiority complex. It's ok to step out of the shadow of the 1990s, things really aren't that bad.
And what has really changed from the 1990's? Outside of the cinderella run not a helluva lot. This is a team that has struggled to find any consistency in the past decade and make the playoffs with any regularity. Sure, they aren't stuck in the bottom five or six in the league, but they have shown little to no improvement either. For a team that is supposed to be chock full of bluechip prospects and great young players, year-after-year-after-year, they show no signs of improvement at all.

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