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Melanson: the jury is out...

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Old
03-17-2009, 09:53 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
In the history of the NHL, how many goaltenders were consistently good at his age? 2-3?

And Price wasn't THAT good in the juniors either.

When Price is not panicking, when the pressure isn't too hard on him, he's one of the best goaltenders in the league, at 21, with the hardest job in hockey (goalie in mtl), with Melanson's technique. He's just unreliable, loses his game when under pressure, stops moving, fall on his knees quickly, let's in easy shot, has no control on his glove. But all of this has nothing to do with the way he's playing when he's on his game. Nothing to do with what his coach is showing him.
I'm telling you and I've been saying it for a while now... if they don't fire Melanson, they better trade Price while he still has some value as he'll ruin him. He will become an average goalie like Huet and Theodore (in the best case scenario). If we want to see him take the next step, we need a goalie who will be able to bring him back to his roots, play the hybrid style which made him a 5th overall pick in this league, and then only improve on minor techniques instead of changing his entire style. You've heard it here!

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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense.
Because it's an opinion that doesn't match yours?

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Old
03-17-2009, 09:58 PM
  #152
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Asterix, the Allaire brothers worked after that with other goaltenders than Roy. But none got over 500 victories in their career. Roy was an exception.

Just wanted to remind you that goaltender coaches can take a lot on their shoulders, but in the end, they are not the ones standing between the pipes.

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Old
03-17-2009, 10:02 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
Asterix, the Allaire brothers worked after that with other goaltenders than Roy. But none got over 500 victories in their career. Roy was an exception.

Just wanted to remind you that goaltender coaches can take a lot on their shoulders, but in the end, they are not the ones standing between the pipes.
I understand that and to avoid posting the same thing twice in the same page, please see the post #133 above. It explains exactly where I'm basing my rational.

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Old
03-17-2009, 10:48 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I understand that and to avoid posting the same thing twice in the same page, please see the post #133 above. It explains exactly where I'm basing my rational.
I so totally agree with that long post. Great job on writing it. There's nothing like supporting it's opinion with facts or at least a little rationality. It's been a couple of months since I started telling people that Price was no longer Price. Okay he's the same person, but his game style was evolving into something painfull to watch, remembering me of why I was happy to see Huet leave...

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Old
03-18-2009, 12:01 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Theran189 View Post
I so totally agree with that long post. Great job on writing it. There's nothing like supporting it's opinion with facts or at least a little rationality. It's been a couple of months since I started telling people that Price was no longer Price. Okay he's the same person, but his game style was evolving into something painfull to watch, remembering me of why I was happy to see Huet leave...
Thank you. See, the problem here is that for whatever reason, we're very quick at jumping the gun on our head coach or some of the players, especially the younger ones but yet, we don't have the ability to recognize that others have their responsibilities on this team and Melanson is one of them.

In no way do I mean that he's a bad coach. I'm simply saying that his biggest fault is to not be able to teach a goalie from the style he has had success with. He feels like every goalie should play the one style... because that's what he knows to teach.

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Old
03-18-2009, 07:23 AM
  #156
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I'm on the fire Melanson bandwagon now. Price's tarantula style of goaltending breakaways is something new in his game and it is absolutely abhorrent and I'd have to think it a byproduct of Rollie Melanson.

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Old
03-18-2009, 08:26 AM
  #157
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Price and Halak are both having stellar games and are back into their game and you guys still want the Habs to fire one of the best goaltending coaches in the league?


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Old
03-18-2009, 11:09 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov View Post
Price and Halak are both having stellar games and are back into their game and you guys still want the Habs to fire one of the best goaltending coaches in the league?

Good goalie coaches don't teach their goalies to crouch and make themselves as small as possible when someone has the puck close to the goal.

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Old
03-18-2009, 11:14 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'm on the fire Melanson bandwagon now. Price's tarantula style of goaltending breakaways is something new in his game and it is absolutely abhorrent and I'd have to think it a byproduct of Rollie Melanson.
That shot of Antropov approaching and Price literally giving him the top 50% of the net was ridiculous. I could have probably scored given that much net (and a couple dozen tries).

But I'm mostly ignorant when it comes to the goaltending position let alone goaltending coaches, so I'll abstain.

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Old
03-18-2009, 11:14 AM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Good goalie coaches don't teach their goalies to crouch and make themselves as small as possible when someone has the puck close to the goal.
You're right, a goalie who has lost his confidende does it, though.

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Old
03-18-2009, 11:16 AM
  #161
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No point in blaming the goalie coach when he didn't make the decision to rush Price to the NHL instead of taking a long term strategy.

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Old
03-18-2009, 11:57 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
No point in blaming the goalie coach when he didn't make the decision to rush Price to the NHL instead of taking a long term strategy.
I would believe that if it's indeed the case, that he's not ready, if there's one guy who can convince Gainey and Co to not rush him, it's the goalie coach. I will not believe that Gainey alone would take that kind of decision without the approbation of Melanson.

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Old
03-18-2009, 02:26 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I would believe that if it's indeed the case, that he's not ready, if there's one guy who can convince Gainey and Co to not rush him, it's the goalie coach. I will not believe that Gainey alone would take that kind of decision without the approbation of Melanson.
Probably but there was a lot of euphoria surrounding Price at the time at an age that is well below where NHL goalies traditionally become first string goalies so a little more caution should have been used by the guy in charge. Now I guess he has to clear waivers to go to the AHL so the option where he could be most comfortable and work on his game is gone.

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03-18-2009, 08:12 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Malakhov View Post
Price and Halak are both having stellar games and are back into their game and you guys still want the Habs to fire one of the best goaltending coaches in the league?

I don't know what you base that opinion on, but look at post 133 of this thread and debate if you want...

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Old
03-18-2009, 08:28 PM
  #165
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Price playing butterfly may not only be a question of effectiveness.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=620794

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Old
03-18-2009, 10:41 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
Price playing butterfly may not only be a question of effectiveness.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=620794
I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but Price's style was hybrid before Melanson changed him... for the worse! He's now forced to think about his style to stop the puck instead of relying on what comes natural.

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Old
03-18-2009, 10:55 PM
  #167
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Melanson always seem more at ease with smaller goalies.

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Old
03-19-2009, 01:14 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but Price's style was hybrid before Melanson changed him... for the worse! He's now forced to think about his style to stop the puck instead of relying on what comes natural.
Did you click the link or read the article? It talks about how the butterfly style could be the cause of many injuries that some goalies have sustained. And Price isn't exactly a small guy, so I'm pretty worried.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...x.html?eref=T1

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Old
03-19-2009, 10:00 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
Did you click the link or read the article? It talks about how the butterfly style could be the cause of many injuries that some goalies have sustained. And Price isn't exactly a small guy, so I'm pretty worried.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...x.html?eref=T1
I clicked the link but I wasn't going to read an entire thread to find out what was said.

The point is not as much the butterfly here as much as Melanson trying to make a butterfly goalie out of Price when he's had success at every level as a hybrid goalie. Melanson is simply ruining Price and I strongly believe that the two must part ways. If we want to keep Price, can Melanson. If Melanson's future is with this team, trade Price now before his value sinks to the point of no return.

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03-19-2009, 10:03 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I clicked the link but I wasn't going to read an entire thread to find out what was said.

The point is not as much the butterfly here as much as Melanson trying to make a butterfly goalie out of Price when he's had success at every level as a hybrid goalie. Melanson is simply ruining Price and I strongly believe that the two must part ways. If we want to keep Price, can Melanson. If Melanson's future is with this team, trade Price now before his value sinks to the point of no return.
Interesting points. Brodeur doesn't play the butterfly.

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Old
03-19-2009, 10:07 PM
  #171
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Interesting points. Brodeur doesn't play the butterfly.
And Price has admitted this week copying his style on Brodeur... but that was before working full time with Melanson!

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Old
03-24-2009, 07:49 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I know that the timing of this thread is not well chosen, I'll admit that much, but there is something about our coaching staff that has been bothering me for a few years now and that's the techniques coached by Roland Melanson to our goaltenders.

I have played at that position for many years. I have coached that position for about as many years. That certainly doesn't make me an expert on the matter, far from there, but there are details that I notice that may (or may not) go unnoticed when looking at our goaltenders, and they seem to be repetitive no matter what goalie we have in net.

I fully understand that the butterfly style relies heavily on the goalies going down on their knees. In order to be effective though, the technique and the timing must be dead on or goalies really put themselves in a very vulnerable position. I'm sick and tired of seeing our goalies go down on just about every single shot, whether they're screened or not, no matter where the shot is coming from. It is extremely difficult to stop a puck shot up high when you're down on your knees, much harder than it is to stop a low shot when you're standing up. The goals on Price at the ASG are just a few examples. Lecavalier's goal tonight is just another one. Although their skills level may differ, Huet, Aebischer and Halak all have (had) the same flaws.

I feel that although Price is doing quite well, we have yet to tap into his immense talent and I highly doubt that we ever will, that he'll ever become the shadow of Patrick Roy or the other greats we've been fortunate to see in Montreal if Melanson is his coach.

Patrick Roy became the player that we know because of François Allaire, and he's admitted to that in several occasions. The guy knows the butterfly and he worked with Patrick in perfecting his timing and his positioning.

We need to get this guy back into our organization and quickly.
Allaire done similar with Giguere to what he did with Roy. Gigure may not be as good as Roy, but he won a cup and near cup. Little chance he would come back to Montreal.

Melanson technique is not that bad I feel. Many goalies have done well under him. However, he has no mental aspect what so ever to prepare a goalie. It is showing again with Price. Who has taken a step backwards from last season. Huet had mental lapses up Melanson, as did Theodore and remember poor Vokoun and his first year under Melanson.

However, I am not sold on a goalie coaching change unless it is Roy bought in. I would instead aid Melanson with a veteran goalie for the younsters

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Old
03-24-2009, 08:01 PM
  #173
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I don't know what you base that opinion on, but look at post 133 of this thread and debate if you want...
How do you debate a nonsense dispenser?

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Old
03-24-2009, 08:02 PM
  #174
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This thread seriously fails, the best is when I read "butterfly is for average goalies".


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Old
03-24-2009, 10:46 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Good goalie coaches don't teach their goalies to crouch and make themselves as small as possible when someone has the puck close to the goal.

I'd have to say i agree with that. The way Price played in that shootout against NYR was really bizarre. looked like something Mr Miyagi taught daniel-san

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