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Old
01-30-2009, 01:09 PM
  #26
Trxjw
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
Maybe it would be best for all parties if free agents looked elsewhere. They aren't exactly working out for us for the most part.

I'm afraid that 2 seasons is too late. We need cap space this summer. If we hang on to Redden, Roszival, Drury and Gomez, we are going to see Zherdev go elsewhere and we seriously risk losing Dubinsky, Callahan and Staal to an offer sheet that we will not be able to even match. I'd rather risk the negative fallout from burying Redden than risk potential buyouts of some of our few decent prospects.
If anyone wants to offer Dubinsky 2.6+ million per season with an offer sheet, I'll take the 1st and 3rd round pick to the bank. Anything other than that, we'll match it. Staal will be re-signed, and you can bet Sather will do whatever is necessary to make it happen. Callahan is a great, great player but nobody is going to throw an offer sheet at him. People act as if GM's are constantly looking to use offer sheets to acquire players. It's very, very rare and with the cap probably holding steady, I doubt teams are looking to spend money at the expense of draft picks.

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01-30-2009, 01:16 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If anyone wants to offer Dubinsky 2.6+ million per season with an offer sheet, I'll take the 1st and 3rd round pick to the bank. Anything other than that, we'll match it. Staal will be re-signed, and you can bet Sather will do whatever is necessary to make it happen. Callahan is a great, great player but nobody is going to throw an offer sheet at him. People act as if GM's are constantly looking to use offer sheets to acquire players. It's very, very rare and with the cap probably holding steady, I doubt teams are looking to spend money at the expense of draft picks.
Staal is an RFA after next season. We cannot sign any contract until after this season but if we did than the new cap hit will be in place for next year. Therefore we will not be even giving offers to Staal until Jan 2010.

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01-30-2009, 01:17 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
Maybe it would be best for all parties if free agents looked elsewhere. They aren't exactly working out for us for the most part.

I'm afraid that 2 seasons is too late. We need cap space this summer. If we hang on to Redden, Roszival, Drury and Gomez, we are going to see Zherdev go elsewhere and we seriously risk losing Dubinsky, Callahan and Staal to an offer sheet that we will not be able to even match. I'd rather risk the negative fallout from burying Redden than risk potential buyouts of some of our few decent prospects.
Do you know the insane return you get for offer sheets? As much as I like Cally, Duby, and Staal...if they got offered 4.5 mil (I think) by another team, see ya! 9 picks right there. The only player I would keep is Staal. So, 6 picks and Staal. Sounds awesome.

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01-30-2009, 01:18 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
Maybe it would be best for all parties if free agents looked elsewhere. They aren't exactly working out for us for the most part.
2nd, 3rd and 4th leading scorers and top 2 point getters on the blue line were all UFA signings. For the most part, UFA's are the best players on this team.

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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
If we hang on to Redden, Roszival, Drury and Gomez, we are going to see Zherdev go elsewhere and we seriously risk losing Dubinsky, Callahan and Staal to an offer sheet that we will not be able to even match. .
Staal isn't an RFA until 2010. Generally speaking, I think people are really overestimating this year's potential RFA awards.

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01-30-2009, 01:20 PM
  #30
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I love the excuse-making for Redden. He's been solid defensively? LOL. What solid third pairing defenseman in this league can't do exactly what he does for this team? He is slow, he is indecisive, and he is easy to beat for most wingers. Go wide on him and he's toast.


He is a third-pair player. He does nothing to help offensively, and for the third straight season, he is playing worse than the season before. His value is, at most, 2.5 million per season. I don't have to take it out on him, I don't blame him for taking free money. The blame should be on Sather for signing the worst contract in the National Hockey League. What an incredibly terrible decision, terrible use of judgment. From all sides people said this would be a mistake, and only the Sather apologists continue to make excuses for Redden's poor play. Take off the blinders and see what the rest of the league has been laughing at all season long.

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01-30-2009, 01:20 PM
  #31
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W/ the economy being the way it is, and the uncertainty of the cap, I don't really think that GM's will make many offers to RFA's at all. B/c reallistically the only way to get one is to massively overpay for them. Then on top of overpaying in money, you also lose draft picks which takes away young cheap talent from you as well.

I would not be surprised if No big name RFA's received offer sheets.

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01-30-2009, 01:22 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
2nd, 3rd and 4th leading scorers and top 2 point getters on the blue line were all UFA signings. For the most part, UFA's are the best players on this team.
I'm the third leading scorer on my hockey team. That doesn't mean I'm good (trust me ).

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01-30-2009, 01:22 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I love the excuse-making for Redden. He's been solid defensively? LOL. What solid third pairing defenseman in this league can't do exactly what he does for this team? He is slow, he is indecisive, and he is easy to beat for most wingers. Go wide on him and he's toast.


He is a third-pair player. He does nothing to help offensively, and for the third straight season, he is playing worse than the season before. His value is, at most, 2.5 million per season. I don't have to take it out on him, I don't blame him for taking free money. The blame should be on Sather for signing the worst contract in the National Hockey League. What an incredibly terrible decision, terrible use of judgment. From all sides people said this would be a mistake, and only the Sather apologists continue to make excuses for Redden's poor play. Take off the blinders and see what the rest of the league has been laughing at all season long.
he has the second most points on this team for D-men. So if he does nothing offensively than, Girardi, Mara, Kalinen and Staal absolutely do nothing.

Again not saying I like the redden signing, cause i hated it from day one, but he is our second best offensive dman behind Rosy.

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01-30-2009, 01:24 PM
  #34
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I'm the third leading scorer on my hockey team. That doesn't mean I'm good (trust me ).
But still means they'd be lost without you Sting.

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01-30-2009, 01:27 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
he has the second most points on this team for D-men. So if he does nothing offensively than, Girardi, Mara, Kalinen and Staal absolutely do nothing.

Again not saying I like the redden signing, cause i hated it from day one, but he is our second best offensive dman behind Rosy.
And again, that isn't saying much. This is one of the worst offensive teams in the league with one of the worst power plays in the league. Last time I checked, Sather signed Redden because he expected that to change.

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01-30-2009, 01:34 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
And again, that isn't saying much. This is one of the worst offensive teams in the league with one of the worst power plays in the league. Last time I checked, Sather signed Redden because he expected that to change.
are you blaming Redden, Sather, Renney, or any combination of the three?

I actually think that in the last month Redden's play has improved alot. In fact I think everybody's play has improved over that time period.

The PP has looked better as well. Maybe now w/ a lil more time together everything will start clicking. If not than Renney should be let go and bring in somebody who is more aggressive, to see if that is the problem. If still nothing changes, than it is time to start changing around the roster (which is the hardest thing to do considering the contracts and economy).

I'm no optimist, and in fact I usually agree w/ you that this team is screwed for the long hault. But watching them play the last couple weeks, I started to see improvement and gave me a little hope. So I'm going to give it a chance as I don't see any quick fixes in the near future, and I hope that this team can find a way to break through. It is what it is right now, and I wish it was different but there really isn't much change that can happen.

That and I think Bluenote brainwashed me a lil.

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01-30-2009, 01:42 PM
  #37
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That and I think Bluenote brainwashed me a lil.
I'm like Renney, just give me time, i'll get you all to do what I want ya to

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01-30-2009, 01:45 PM
  #38
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I'm like Renney, just give me time, i'll get you all to do what I want ya to
you and your damn optimism.

but this team has shown some signs of life recently. It seems that they aren't too far off from clicking now, especially their PP, which while still not scoring a whole lot has looked much much better as of late.

Baby steps, i guess is better than nothing.

But don't worry Bluenote. I'm still worried about the cap hell we might be entering. I just might as well try to relax and enjoy the rest of this season.

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01-30-2009, 01:55 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
are you blaming Redden, Sather, Renney, or any combination of the three?

I actually think that in the last month Redden's play has improved alot. In fact I think everybody's play has improved over that time period.

The PP has looked better as well. Maybe now w/ a lil more time together everything will start clicking. If not than Renney should be let go and bring in somebody who is more aggressive, to see if that is the problem. If still nothing changes, than it is time to start changing around the roster (which is the hardest thing to do considering the contracts and economy).

I'm no optimist, and in fact I usually agree w/ you that this team is screwed for the long hault. But watching them play the last couple weeks, I started to see improvement and gave me a little hope. So I'm going to give it a chance as I don't see any quick fixes in the near future, and I hope that this team can find a way to break through. It is what it is right now, and I wish it was different but there really isn't much change that can happen.

That and I think Bluenote brainwashed me a lil.
If you read my posts, you'll see my opinion is fairly consistent. I have praise for Renney despite often disagreeing with his choices. I cannot lay any blame on him until I know, if I ever do, just how much say he has in roster decisions.

I don't blame Redden, or Gomez for that matter, for taking big money. Who wouldn't? The blame rests on Sather and it always has. There are only three players on this team who truly bother me. Gomez, Redden and Voros. Now, Voros isn't exactly a major player on the team, nor his contract a big part of the cap, so he doesn't bother me that much.

But Redden and Gomez, to me, are unforgivably bad decisions. I just really can't fathom how someone who is supposedly an expert could look at these two moves, and take into account the salary cap, and think this is anything other than pure idiocy. The salary cap is your budget, and to pay players who provide so little so much and for so long is just mismanagement of the budget, pure and simple. It's inefficient business.

I know it is what it is too, and like you, I can only hope that things will change. But I don't expect it too, and so far, I've been right far more often than I've been wrong when it comes to Sather's history with this team. It's disheartening and it makes it difficult to root for the team when you believe in your heart of hearts, as I do, that this is such a long and unnecessary setback for this team. It's like this pointless detour that never ends.

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01-30-2009, 02:05 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
If you read my posts, you'll see my opinion is fairly consistent. I have praise for Renney despite often disagreeing with his choices. I cannot lay any blame on him until I know, if I ever do, just how much say he has in roster decisions.

I don't blame Redden, or Gomez for that matter, for taking big money. Who wouldn't? The blame rests on Sather and it always has. There are only three players on this team who truly bother me. Gomez, Redden and Voros. Now, Voros isn't exactly a major player on the team, nor his contract a big part of the cap, so he doesn't bother me that much.

But Redden and Gomez, to me, are unforgivably bad decisions. I just really can't fathom how someone who is supposedly an expert could look at these two moves, and take into account the salary cap, and think this is anything other than pure idiocy. The salary cap is your budget, and to pay players who provide so little so much and for so long is just mismanagement of the budget, pure and simple. It's inefficient business.

I know it is what it is too, and like you, I can only hope that things will change. But I don't expect it too, and so far, I've been right far more often than I've been wrong when it comes to Sather's history with this team. It's disheartening and it makes it difficult to root for the team when you believe in your heart of hearts, as I do, that this is such a long and unnecessary setback for this team. It's like this pointless detour that never ends.
you won't find me arguing this at all. I think Sather has killed this franchise for a while w/ those signings. But it also comes on Renney to get the most out of his players which I don't think he has been doing.

But the last month of play, has given me a little more hope b/c this team looks to be gelling a little more. so maybe this team might be a little better than I thought. So i'm having mixed reactions of what is going on.

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01-30-2009, 02:17 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
you and your damn optimism.

but this team has shown some signs of life recently. It seems that they aren't too far off from clicking now, especially their PP, which while still not scoring a whole lot has looked much much better as of late.

Baby steps, i guess is better than nothing.

But don't worry Bluenote. I'm still worried about the cap hell we might be entering. I just might as well try to relax and enjoy the rest of this season.
I think this cap stuff is easier to get around than what wall street fund managers were doing

Seriously, enjoy a winning Rangers team, part of the beauty of this team is never knowing what we're gonna get. Though, thats also why i have no fingernails left

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01-30-2009, 02:36 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I love the excuse-making for Redden. He's been solid defensively? LOL. What solid third pairing defenseman in this league can't do exactly what he does for this team? He is slow, he is indecisive, and he is easy to beat for most wingers. Go wide on him and he's toast.


He is a third-pair player. He does nothing to help offensively, and for the third straight season, he is playing worse than the season before. His value is, at most, 2.5 million per season. I don't have to take it out on him, I don't blame him for taking free money. The blame should be on Sather for signing the worst contract in the National Hockey League. What an incredibly terrible decision, terrible use of judgment. From all sides people said this would be a mistake, and only the Sather apologists continue to make excuses for Redden's poor play. Take off the blinders and see what the rest of the league has been laughing at all season long.
If Redden didn't make 6.5 Million, you would more than likely not be so critical of his play. Period.

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01-30-2009, 02:37 PM
  #43
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If you sign Redden to a big contract and bury him in Hartfortd after a year, you pretty much make it clear to other free agents to look elsewhere. He will be treated humanely. At some point (probably after 2 seasons) if he can't turn his career around he will be traded or bought out.
Disagree completely.

Let's not kid ourselves and believe the quote (Scott Gomez/Bobby Holik/Chris Drury/Marcus Naslund/and every other major free agent we have signed in the past 10 years) "I love the city of New York and I have always wanted to play here."

Players come to the Rangers for one primary reason mostly. That is reason is capital. Only a select few have taken less money to be a Ranger in recent years (Shanahan/Mara)

Players generally come here to secure their families futures financially.

If Redden were to be burried in the minors, that would not make Jay Bouwmeester hesitate and say, "I don't want 8 million dollars a year for the next 5+years to play hockey in the center of the civilized world."




As to another poster, I believe MTI-79, yes I often find myself staring at my own avatar as well

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01-30-2009, 02:39 PM
  #44
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you're right he's not playing like crap, but honestly....is he playing better than kalinin at this point?

i'm not gonna say anything bad about roszival....he's looked good lately. maybe overpaid by about a mil, but that sure beats being overpaid by 4 mil (hi wade...hi chris)
Well, Kalinin IMO has also come on recently. Again, someone we were hoping would come on offensively, but both have been a very far cry from being as bad defensively as Backman, Malik, etc. etc.

How quickly everyone forgets how bad some of the people we had on the blueline really were last year.

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01-30-2009, 02:39 PM
  #45
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If you sign Redden to a big contract and bury him in Hartfortd after a year, you pretty much make it clear to other free agents to look elsewhere. He will be treated humanely. At some point (probably after 2 seasons) if he can't turn his career around he will be traded or bought out.
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
If Redden didn't make 6.5 Million, you would more than likely not be so critical of his play. Period.

If Redden made 3 million dollars per season he would not have been included in this thread.

Can't blame him for signing the contract (I certainly would have)

Why shouldn't fans expect players to live up to their billing? This is a business.

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01-30-2009, 02:41 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
Maybe it would be best for all parties if free agents looked elsewhere. They aren't exactly working out for us for the most part.

I'm afraid that 2 seasons is too late. We need cap space this summer. If we hang on to Redden, Roszival, Drury and Gomez, we are going to see Zherdev go elsewhere and we seriously risk losing Dubinsky, Callahan and Staal to an offer sheet that we will not be able to even match. I'd rather risk the negative fallout from burying Redden than risk potential buyouts of some of our few decent prospects.
Drury, Gomez, and Redden's contracts are tough but they're already working on locking up Zherdev, and no one is going to sign Dubi or Cally to offer sheets. Staal and Girardi aren't RFA's until after next season. As it was already stated no team is going to give up a 1st and 3rd for Dubi or Cally, probably not Girardi either. And Sather is going to do whatever it takes to keep Staal. Say what you will about Sather but he's made it a point to not trade away the farm post-lockout.

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01-30-2009, 02:43 PM
  #47
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Well, Kalinin IMO has also come on recently. Again, someone we were hoping would come on offensively, but both have been a very far cry from being as bad defensively as Backman, Malik, etc. etc.

How quickly everyone forgets how bad some of the people we had on the blueline really were last year.

Does that mean we should settle when both players are playing to 75% of their potential on a consistant basis?

They have been the bottom two defenseman this season.

1. Staal
2. Mara
3. Girardi
4. Rozsival
5. Redden
6. Kalinen

8.8 Million cap hit for the bottom pairing.

But they are better than Malik/Ozolinsh etc... so we should be pleased

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01-30-2009, 02:43 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by TheRedressor View Post
If Redden made 3 million dollars per season he would not have been included in this thread.

Can't blame him for signing the contract (I certainly would have)

Why shouldn't fans expect players to live up to their billing? This is a business.
There was no way Redden was going to live up to that contract, if he was dogging it I'd b e pissed but it's not as if he's not trying

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01-30-2009, 02:44 PM
  #49
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they are going for it all people. Yea we can be frustrated at alot of things but they do have a pretty good defensive system. they shiat the bed here and there but over all its good. Obviously Lundqvist is world class

they have talent everywhere. It's just a matter of finding the right combos. Regardless of the cap they are going to find a way to get guys in..........when they still have enough room to pick up a 4 million dollar player at the deadline you can't really complain

plus in the worst case scenario they release Prucha and Kalinin to bring another Dman in.........plenty of options and only a month to the deadline........thank god

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01-30-2009, 02:53 PM
  #50
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There was no way Redden was going to live up to that contract, if he was dogging it I'd b e pissed but it's not as if he's not trying

Maybe I have a different definition of "dogging it" however I do see flashes of brilliance from Wade offensively and defensively time to time. To me not being able to show what your capable of on a consistant basis is "dogging it"

The biggest problem with Redden this season is his lack of focus to the meticulous details ESPECIALLY in the defensive zone.

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