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IF it was KOivu that got hit by moore?

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Old
03-09-2004, 08:25 AM
  #51
NoKtUrN
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Unacceptable

Quote:
Originally Posted by loudi94
I do remember and if Varada had been seriously hurt Gilmour would have been toast for a long time.

Taking cheap shots to stop cheap shots doesn't make sense.
One thing about that is Gilmour replied exactly after the hit of Varada and emotions got him to do it. When you play a team a week or two after the hit, emotions are not has high has they were on the game it actually happenned. The hit on Moore is completely stupid, I mean what was Bertuzzi thinking? Its one thing to hit a guy in the face, but upside the head like he did, and banging his head on the ice. I don't see much difference between the hit of Bert and the Mcsorley hit on Brashear. I respected both players before their hits but know I'm questionning that same respect I has for Bertuzzi.

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03-09-2004, 08:29 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rib71
WOuld you then be all over the mtl player for doing what he did, i saw it happen as i was flipping between that and the habs game, my initial reaction was omg that guy is dirty, buut after thinking about it and listening to the team 990, i ve changed my mind


NEXT TIME NO ONE WILL GO FOR NASY"S HEAD EVEN THOUGH IT WAS LEGAL!!! IF IT HAPPENED TO KOIVU iI D EXPECT THE SAME TO SEND THE A MSG!!!!

PROTECT THE STARS!!!


MOORE TRYED TO MAKE A NAME FOR HIMSELF BY HITTING NASY, SO DONT CRY WHEN IT COMES BACK TO YOU
This is ridiculous are you stupid or somethin?

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Old
03-09-2004, 08:30 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joechip
(Bertuzzi did) the honorable thing by sticking up for a teammate when a sincere liberty was taken.
Bertuzzi stalked Moore, sucker-punched him and then drove his head into the ice - all from behind. That's honorable? Jesus, Neanderthals defending the indefensible - that's sick.

What Moore did to Naslund was legal. What Bertuzzi did to Moore was criminal.

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Old
03-09-2004, 08:49 AM
  #54
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Can somebody post the video again. I did not see it and I want to see it before making any judgement...

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Old
03-09-2004, 09:01 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryoptix
I'll still take him with my team !!
sure it was really bad for the league, but Bertuzzi is the BEST powerforward in the league.period.
Actually Joe Thornton is better and 4 or 5 years younger. PERIOD!

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Old
03-09-2004, 09:17 AM
  #56
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I don't care what happened to Naslund... bad, yes... but there is NO, and I mean NO ROOM for this crap in hockey. You cannot justify doing what Bertuzzi did.

I love the guy... but that was uncalled for. And he knows it too... it was a mistake on his part, he got heated up and didn't think. And now, he'll get the punishment to fit the crime...

...but regardless, that was unacceptable.

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Old
03-09-2004, 09:27 AM
  #57
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Bertuzzi's cheap shot is as bad as McSorley vs Brashear and should be punished accordingly. I'm afraid the league authorities will have to lower the boom on Bert. This isn't a first offense. Bertuzzi has to be viewed as a loose cannon by the league.

One day, a player will die on the ice if such actions are punished with just a slap on the wrist. I say the rest of the season and the playoffs for Bertuzzi.

Moreover, this type of cheap tavern league stuff shouldn't be tolerated in the NHL. The players should show more respect toward one another and it's the league's responsibility to see to it that they do.

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Old
03-09-2004, 09:41 AM
  #58
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My 2 cents, the Moore/Naslund hit was clean. Naslund had the puck, Moore did not leave the ice or take more then a few strides. Case closed. The fact that Naslund was extended and get the worst of the hit is a result of him reaching for the puck.

Bertuzzi is one of my favorite players, but you have to call it like you SEE it. Bert has been brewing since the Naslund hit.

He wanted Moore. And he got him.

Now, as much as I like him, he is gonna pay for his stupidty.

If he only channeled his energy into scoring and leading the team to victory, maybe they would not have been embarrassed on home ice as they did.

Bert...see ya in 2005.

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Old
03-09-2004, 09:44 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rib71
WOuld you then be all over the mtl player for doing what he did, i saw it happen as i was flipping between that and the habs game, my initial reaction was omg that guy is dirty, buut after thinking about it and listening to the team 990, i ve changed my mind


NEXT TIME NO ONE WILL GO FOR NASY"S HEAD EVEN THOUGH IT WAS LEGAL!!! IF IT HAPPENED TO KOIVU iI D EXPECT THE SAME TO SEND THE A MSG!!!!

PROTECT THE STARS!!!


MOORE TRYED TO MAKE A NAME FOR HIMSELF BY HITTING NASY, SO DONT CRY WHEN IT COMES BACK TO YOU
I cant believe what your saying. That cheap shot by bert was just sickening, PEARIOD!

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Old
03-09-2004, 09:48 AM
  #60
Joe Cole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAN-HAB
I haven't said anything, I agree on protecting the star players, but like I said on Canucks board, I hope Bertuzzi gets suspended for the rest of the season, and I pray for Moore to quickly recover. However again star players are not protected and I really hate that.
Van-Hab, you are not the only one who said this, but I found your post first....

Why is it right to protect the stars more then the journeymen? Are the lives of star players and physical health more important to their families?

Bottomline, if they call the game regardless of the name on the jersey and the score and time on the clock, then all the players would be protected.

And another thing.... "Complete your check"....9 times outta 10, this should be called a penalty. If you hit a player as he releases a puck or a second after, no problem. But....if you hit the player and hold him on the boards to keep him out of the play....that should be called as a penalty. It is written in black and white in the rule book.

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03-09-2004, 09:58 AM
  #61
Joe Cole
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To reply to the initial question in the post.....

If Koivu was hit cleanly and was injured seriously....then you have to take it like a man. "Them the brakes". If there is clearly no intent, then there should be no retribution.

An example, the Savage hit. That hit was clean. It sucked to have one of our best guys almost die, but there was no wrong doing. By the rules of the game, it was legal.

Hockey is a contact sport. Injuries happen. They are never a good thing. But you have to be honest with yourself. If you did nothing wrong and someone wanted to punish you anyways, ask yourself if that is fair.

That said, if it is an illegal check or stick foul.... then settle it right there and then, in a one on one fight. If the guy won't fight, verbally abuse him every second of the game (and subsequent games). Call him out, until he takes himself out of the game with a bad penalty.

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Old
03-09-2004, 10:07 AM
  #62
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Does anyone think this incident coupled with the slug fest in Ottawa earlier this week will prompt the league to look at the instigator rule? IMO if Jovo or May etc... could have dealt with the Moore hit (clean or not) immediately after it happened this entire episode would have been avoided (ditto the Havlat crosscheck on Recchi).

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Old
03-09-2004, 10:11 AM
  #63
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Right on Joe Cole...

What Bert did was entirely uncalled for, and extremely dangerous to boot. Hits like that are often career-enders, and for what reason did he act like a complete hoodlum?? Retaliation... according to Markus Naslund it wasn't retaliation (see TSN article on the game), just something that happens in the course of the game. Apparently Bert is "very sorry", but you must wonder if after assaulting another person he is more worried about his lost money than he is about sending another human being to the hospital after mugging him? Personally, this type of behavior really needs to be dealt with in a manner that treats these actions as they are, assault and a criminal offense.

This is no better than the punch that began the end for Beukaboom, or the swinging stick incident with McSorley, or Dale Hunter's hit on Turgeon. The actions are over the top and have no place in sport, period.

If someone really crosses a line, then you take legal action against them... if Moore was SO wrong and his hit was so premeditated as an attempt to injure Naslund, take it to court: that is where assault should be dealt with.

Were i running the league, Bert would sit for a very long time... perhaps an entire season without pay, just to make the example: when you lose control, you are no longer a professional.


Last edited by habsfansam: 03-09-2004 at 11:00 AM.
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Old
03-09-2004, 10:18 AM
  #64
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I can't believe that there are people justifying this in any way. This isn't part of the game. And don't give me this garbage about the instigator rule. The score was 8-2, and they were instigating left, right, and center as it was.

I used to like Bertuzzi, but in that single act he proved just what kind of human garbage he is. He's lucky I'm not in charge of NHL discipline, because he wouldn't be playing for a loooong time.

And for the guy who said Nilan did the same kind of stuff: tell Nilan that and he'd probabably clock you...and not to the back of your head when you weren't expecting it.

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Old
03-09-2004, 10:24 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Caballero
I can't believe that there are people justifying this in any way. This isn't part of the game. And don't give me this garbage about the instigator rule. The score was 8-2, and they were instigating left, right, and center as it was.

I used to like Bertuzzi, but in that single act he proved just what kind of human garbage he is. He's lucky I'm not in charge of NHL discipline, because he wouldn't be playing for a loooong time.

And for the guy who said Nilan did the same kind of stuff: tell Nilan that and he'd probabably clock you...and not to the back of your head when you weren't expecting it.
I'm would never justify what Bertuzzi did.

However, anyone who doesn't think that the instigator rule has an affect on the players ability to police themselves (which all but eliminates these retribution inspired attacks) IMO has their head in the sand.

I agree Nilan would never have hit pulled a stunt like that (except perhaps on Jay Miller ), but he damn sure would have pummeled anyone who crushed the team Captain at the first available opportunity.

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Old
03-09-2004, 10:25 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfansam
Apparently Bert is "very sorry", but you must wonder if after assaulting another person he is more worried about his lost money than he is about sending another human being to the hospital after mugging him?
Exactly. That's precisely what I was thinking. Perhaps he's sorry that he's screwed his team and he's sorry he's going to be out a million bucks of his own cash, at least. To show lenience to him because he claims he's sorry is like giving lenience to the burglar who beats someone senseless during a robbery, then feels "sorry" because he never intended to commit a violent crime. It begs the question: "Then what were you doing bringing a baseball bat into the house, jackass?" In Bertuzzi's case I would ask, "What did you expect to happen when a 250 pound man hits someone in the back of the neck as hard as he can when the other guy isn't expecting it?"

I say throw the book at Bertuzzi. This is a black day for hockey, and the sport would be better off without him.

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Old
03-09-2004, 11:11 AM
  #67
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Something came to mind... not sure if it has been brought up.

In the original question of "what if koivu got hit by moore?", let's look at the proper way to deal with this.

Earlier this season, Koivu was hit in the Carolina game with a dirty elbow as he tried to blow past someone (can't recall who)... in the subsequent games with carolina, the habs turned to outplaying carolina. Yes, there were fights, but they were conducted within the confines of NHL rules... there isn't a penalty for aggravated assault, and there shouldn't be; but i don't have a problem with player policing themselves provided that there is respect: when moore refused to fight the first five times this game, the issue was dead and you then look to beat colorado in the game to make them pay.

Having now seen the "highlights" of the match in question, a thing that really disgusts me is the expression on marc crawford's face... he honestly doesn't care. He's got a totally neutral, "what did you expect?" expression on his face while staring straight ahead and avoiding any glance inthe direction of the pool of blood pouring out of moore's face. Where i the nhl, crawford would be suspended for having insufficient control of his players, and failing to uphold a decent face for hockey.

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03-09-2004, 11:32 AM
  #68
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I always thought that hockey is a sport. What does deliberately injuring someone has to do with sport? Revenge actions are just childish and therefore stupid, even if Moore hadn't been injured. Whoever got hit by Moore is of no interest regarding this situation. I used to like Bertuzzi alot but now it has a bitter aftertaste for me. It's not only the damage done to Moore who hopefully has nothing serious but it's has done a lot of damage to hockey too. Hockey is a GAME and should be played in the sense of competition; to be the better team and not to destroy the other team.

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03-09-2004, 12:34 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicpea
Sorry for my lack of logic. I meant that I don't think he intended for Moore to be carried off to the hospital. I know he meant to punch him and that it was a sucker (13 games) but the extent of the 'payback' I think was unexpected on the part of Todd.
edit: give me a break - it's all very emotional right now. Like I said, I'm not trying to start an argument. We all obvioulsy wish that this hadn't happened.
He didn't intend to put Moore in the hospital? I will give him the benefit of the doubt. But that is the point. When he was on the ice, he wasn't thinking about the consequences of his actions. By consequences, I don't mean the potential of the opposing player attacking back, or the upcoming suspension. He wasn't thinking about what he might be doing to another human being. This is what gets people incarcerated, intentional or not.

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03-09-2004, 12:43 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor Poon Nany
He didn't intend to put Moore in the hospital? I will give him the benefit of the doubt. But that is the point. When he was on the ice, he wasn't thinking about the consequences of his actions.
Thanks, all very illuminating.

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Old
03-09-2004, 01:18 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor Poon Nany
He didn't intend to put Moore in the hospital? I will give him the benefit of the doubt. But that is the point. When he was on the ice, he wasn't thinking about the consequences of his actions. By consequences, I don't mean the potential of the opposing player attacking back, or the upcoming suspension. He wasn't thinking about what he might be doing to another human being. This is what gets people incarcerated, intentional or not.
My intent is not to bash you, just give my opinion....

I hope you change that opinion before/if you have kids. That is the type of opinion that sets no boundries. "Tommy didn't mean to set the school on fire. It must be Marilyn Manson's fault."

If we are ever going to live in a just and civilized society, people will have to take reponsibilty for their actions.

Bert was stupid, Bert did something wrong. If he meant for it or not, it doesn't matter. He deserves the suspenion he gets...and maybe more.

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03-09-2004, 01:20 PM
  #72
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Bertuzzi will face the law. It shouldn't be any other way.

That being said, I blame the NHL for the incident, not the players. Hockey, like any sport, is highly emotionly charged. It is a proven fact that emotions play a large role in the human decisional process. When you play a highly intense game, it is even more so. Players will make decisions based on emotions rather than reason and it's actually what make them good at what they do ... They don't have to think about it, they just do it.

So why is it the NHL's fault ? Plain and simple, refferies have absolutely no control over the game. I don't have numbers to show, but I would bet my left hand that cheap shots and illigal hits have sky rocked since the instigator rule has been introduced. It's plain and simple, players will police themselves since the league is unable to do it's job. At least without the instigator rule, a player was good for a boxing match and it would be over. Not any more ... and players are finding new ways to police themselves.

Fire Bettman. He's not in control of things and won't ever be.

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Old
03-09-2004, 01:40 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole
My intent is not to bash you, just give my opinion....

I hope you change that opinion before/if you have kids. That is the type of opinion that sets no boundries. "Tommy didn't mean to set the school on fire. It must be Marilyn Manson's fault."

If we are ever going to live in a just and civilized society, people will have to take reponsibilty for their actions.

Bert was stupid, Bert did something wrong. If he meant for it or not, it doesn't matter. He deserves the suspenion he gets...and maybe more.

He DID NOT think about what he was doing when he should have been. But that is my point, maybe he didn't intend to put him in the hospital, but at the same time, the possility never entered his mind. For this reason, he should be put in jail. I don't really care about what the league does to him.

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Old
03-09-2004, 04:58 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy
Moore's not a fighter either!! Where are people getting that idea?

Understatement. That was Moores FIRST EVER NHL fight.

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Old
03-09-2004, 05:01 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #44_delivers
yes i saw nilan play

no excuses for burtuzzi

the instigator rule had nothing to do with this it waz a bloody 9-2 game if you think getting rid of the instigator rule would have stopped this incident thats just crazy!


apologise? man stars are fair game too apologise my A$$, moore tryed to hit naslund naslund tries to move out of the way last second and gets it worse then he should,

so what your saying is moore should apologise to naslund for trying to hit him, thats just stupid!

my respect for nucks fans goes up today but my respect for habs fans go down for making such comments.

yes this is a sad day for hockey
Moore actually did apologize to Naslund, further Naslund aditted it was a clean hit. I'll take Naslunds words over anyones.

I don't know if it has been mentioned here, but Brad May said there was a bounty on Moores head. That shows a lot about Crawford and kills any form of benefit of doubt that Bertuzzi should be given (ie. did he drive his face in the ice or not.)

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