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IF it was KOivu that got hit by moore?

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Old
03-10-2004, 12:31 PM
  #101
Kirk Muller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oli500
I personaly think that tony granato should be partly blamed for this one also. I mean Comon. Every one knew that at 9-2 with 6 minutes left in the game someone would do something. You saw it coming from a mile away. Granato should of left moore on the bench for the rest of the game. I still think it was a disgraceful hit by Bertuzzi and that he should be suspended for the rest of the season including the playoffs but if any coach had any sort of jugement he would left moore on the bench. IMO its logic to not put a guy on the ice when hes been part of a major contreversie and that the other team is asking for revenge. At 9-2 you leave moore on the bench periode,. Youre just asking for trouble by puting him on the ice!

By no means im defending Todd, I just think that Tony should also be responsible for puting moore on the ice when the score was 9-2. It was a bad jugement from tony's part.

You honestly saw this coming, a sucker punch leaving one mans livelyhood in jeopardy.We all thought revenge in some way, we saw it all game, in many many fights, and in some massive hits. Moore answered the bell already that game. That in the hockey world is usually enough.

Also, who should he have put on the ice. If he benches Moore, maybe that angers the Canucks and Bertuzzi even more, hell Todd obviously has little control over himself so it doesn't take much to put him over the edge, and what if he smashes Sakic, Tanguay and company, how do the Avs react. No offense to Moore, but these guys are of more importance to the team.

Blame lies on one mans shoulders, that is it. To blame anyone else is just trying to justify what Bertuzzi did.

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03-10-2004, 12:35 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rib71
WOuld you then be all over the mtl player for doing what he did, i saw it happen as i was flipping between that and the habs game, my initial reaction was omg that guy is dirty, buut after thinking about it and listening to the team 990, i ve changed my mind


NEXT TIME NO ONE WILL GO FOR NASY"S HEAD EVEN THOUGH IT WAS LEGAL!!! IF IT HAPPENED TO KOIVU iI D EXPECT THE SAME TO SEND THE A MSG!!!!

PROTECT THE STARS!!!


MOORE TRYED TO MAKE A NAME FOR HIMSELF BY HITTING NASY, SO DONT CRY WHEN IT COMES BACK TO YOU
in that case... koivu would probably be dead and no one on the habs could possibly defend/retaliate against him.

on a more serious note... moore didn't get what he deserved. Bertuzzi is a ***** for punching him in the back of the head. at least turn him around and fight... quite sad actually... :mad:

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03-10-2004, 01:06 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13
You honestly saw this coming, a sucker punch leaving one mans livelyhood in jeopardy.We all thought revenge in some way, we saw it all game, in many many fights, and in some massive hits. Moore answered the bell already that game. That in the hockey world is usually enough.

Also, who should he have put on the ice. If he benches Moore, maybe that angers the Canucks and Bertuzzi even more, hell Todd obviously has little control over himself so it doesn't take much to put him over the edge, and what if he smashes Sakic, Tanguay and company, how do the Avs react. No offense to Moore, but these guys are of more importance to the team.

Blame lies on one mans shoulders, that is it. To blame anyone else is just trying to justify what Bertuzzi did.
Im not trying to Justify what Bertuzzi did. It was a ugly hit that should of never happend and I hope Bertuzzi gets what he deserves. But there are also other people that should take responsibilities for bertuzzi suckerpunch because it was a series of events that led to it.

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03-10-2004, 01:15 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oli500
I personaly think that tony granato should be partly blamed for this one also. I mean Comon. Every one knew that at 9-2 with 6 minutes left in the game someone would do something. You saw it coming from a mile away. Granato should of left moore on the bench for the rest of the game. I still think it was a disgraceful hit by Bertuzzi and that he should be suspended for the rest of the season including the playoffs but if any coach had any sort of jugement he would left moore on the bench. IMO its logic to not put a guy on the ice when hes been part of a major contreversie and that the other team is asking for revenge. At 9-2 you leave moore on the bench periode,. Youre just asking for trouble by puting him on the ice!

By no means im defending Todd, I just think that Tony should also be responsible for puting moore on the ice when the score was 9-2. It was a bad jugement from tony's part.
So if a girl decides to walk home instead of say taking a cab after the bar and she gets *****, would you say she's partly to blame because she should have known that there was a possibility of being *****?

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03-10-2004, 01:16 PM
  #105
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i remember 2 yrs when zednik got hit by mclaren, i was living in montreal at the time and, everyone wanted mclaren heads,

english , french , papers, fans


its sad when something like this happens............

but dont forget and dont deny that
2 yrs ago, hab fans wanted mclaren to get ********* up too!!!!

but now were all angels!!!!!!

give me a break

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03-10-2004, 01:46 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oli500
I personaly think that tony granato should be partly blamed for this one also. I mean Comon. Every one knew that at 9-2 with 6 minutes left in the game someone would do something. You saw it coming from a mile away. Granato should of left moore on the bench for the rest of the game. I still think it was a disgraceful hit by Bertuzzi and that he should be suspended for the rest of the season including the playoffs but if any coach had any sort of jugement he would left moore on the bench. IMO its logic to not put a guy on the ice when hes been part of a major contreversie and that the other team is asking for revenge. At 9-2 you leave moore on the bench periode,. Youre just asking for trouble by puting him on the ice!

By no means im defending Todd, I just think that Tony should also be responsible for puting moore on the ice when the score was 9-2. It was a bad jugement from tony's part.
Totally agree, partial blame should pass on to Granato. Everybody watching the game knew something was brewing. Still no excuse for the sucker punch, but I bet Bertuzzi is feeling really bad right now, and so he should.

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03-10-2004, 02:11 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rib71
i remember 2 yrs when zednik got hit by mclaren, i was living in montreal at the time and, everyone wanted mclaren heads,

english , french , papers, fans


its sad when something like this happens............

but dont forget and dont deny that
2 yrs ago, hab fans wanted mclaren to get ********* up too!!!!

but now were all angels!!!!!!

give me a break
Don't lump fans. Most around here knew the best place to hurt Boston/Mclaren was on the scoreboard. Nobody here wanted Mclaren carried off on a stretcher, and have his career, and personal life in serious jeopardy.

Also major differences. Bertuzzi's was premeditated, Mclaren's wasn't. Mclarens was in the context of the game, Bertuzzi's wasn't.

Here is the biggest difference, Montreal didn't react that way. What is the difference in peoples thinking that ends up with two drastically different outcomes? And why when after we see stars hit, which happens hundreds of times, why don't we see this more often.

Another thing, I live just outside Vancouver. I know what the fans are saying, the papers saying after Naslund was hammered. Many expected fights, nobody was thinking this.

People talk revenge, my question one person's thinking or lack there of, gets to this point. How does Bertuzzi's logic go from some form of sending a message to putting someone in hospital and having career and life well being threatening injuries.

Note - I am not directing this soley at you, so I don't want you to think I am picking on you. I would really like to know, how one mans thinking leads to the actually doing of such a crime.

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03-10-2004, 02:17 PM
  #108
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i fully admit at the time I wanted McLaren face down on the ice for his cheap shot on Zednik. But I was glad the Habs took the high road and decided to win the series instead. You shouldn't still feel that way a month after the incident. Bertuzzi cannot be defended in any way possible here.

I do question why Granato would bother to keep playing Moore in that situation tho.

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03-10-2004, 02:38 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by rib71
should of thought about that before he HIT THE ONE OF THE TOP 3 STARS IN THE LEAGUE and at the time was the leading scorer.
WHY DOES THAT MATTER?

what if say blake, or foote made the hit on naslund in the exact same way. then u have another star, bertuzzi, smacking blake in the side of the head. should bertuzzi get more puishment because he did this to a superstar....NOOOOO.
please treat the players as equals in these situations. just because a player is a star player doesn't mean they can't be hit and just because a player is a 4th line rookie doesn't mean he is allowed to be almost killed.

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03-10-2004, 03:05 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13
Don't lump fans. Most around here knew the best place to hurt Boston/Mclaren was on the scoreboard. Nobody here wanted Mclaren carried off on a stretcher, and have his career, and personal life in serious jeopardy.

Also major differences. Bertuzzi's was premeditated, Mclaren's wasn't. Mclarens was in the context of the game, Bertuzzi's wasn't.
Just how do you know what was premeditated, and what wasn't?

Quote:
Here is the biggest difference, Montreal didn't react that way.
No, but it almost came to that. Who can forget Therrien jesturing towards the Bruin's bench, with a slashing indication across his throat? How about Savard going crazy, and recalling the youngster from Hamilton, for his fighting skills? The difference was, we never had an enforcer to deal with McLaren at that time. If we did, I'm certain there would have been an enormous altercation.

Quote:
What is the difference in peoples thinking that ends up with two drastically different outcomes? And why when after we see stars hit, which happens hundreds of times, why don't we see this more often.
Again, I feel its because of all the drama being built up in the media. The players read the same stories we do, and can become emotionally charged, just like us.

Quote:
Another thing, I live just outside Vancouver. I know what the fans are saying, the papers saying after Naslund was hammered. Many expected fights, nobody was thinking this.
Nobody expected it, I'm sure Bertuzzi never did either. It's not like he was thinking with a clear head at that moment. However, why would Granato keep Moore on the ice at the end of a 9-2 game, with tension thicker than ever at that point? Was he trying to stir things up himself?

Quote:
People talk revenge, my question one person's thinking or lack there of, gets to this point. How does Bertuzzi's logic go from some form of sending a message to putting someone in hospital and having career and life well being threatening injuries.
Because, he never meant to knock him out, and fall on his neck, with three players on top his 245lb body? People do incredibly stupid things, at a moments notice, and pay for it their entire life. Why does a drunk get behind the wheel? You can apply the same logic to thousands of mistakes made in our daily life.

Bertuzzi never set out to break a neck. Only he knows what he wanted to do. I suspect a nasty punch to the head was his intention, perhaps to send a vicous message. What transpired after the punch, was very unlucky to Moore and Todd will also live with the aftermath.

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03-10-2004, 04:30 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Professor Poon Nany
He DID NOT think about what he was doing when he should have been. But that is my point, maybe he didn't intend to put him in the hospital, but at the same time, the possility never entered his mind. For this reason, he should be put in jail. I don't really care about what the league does to him.
Ok. Now I get ya....crystal clear

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03-10-2004, 05:47 PM
  #112
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Habs

Bertuzzi stalked a guy up the ice, trying to goat him in all shift. You can't tell me that isn't premeditated. Also, this was two weeks later from Moore's hit, nothing heat of the moment about it. The Canucks and especially May and Bertuzzi both were outspoken about retribution, one being May, put a BOUNTY on Moore's head. You can't be that naive to believe Bertuzzi had no intention of doing what he did, he fully was aware of his actions.


Whether or not Bertuzzi intended on the severity of his actions doesn't matter. He sucker punched a guy which was fully intended, and drove his head into the ice, which may or may not be intended, but really doesn't matter because that is exactly what he did. Further to it, he was just about to further pummel Moore even when he was out. He actually tries to get his glove off and punch but Av teammates get there in time.

The atmosphere thing and media are interesting but why is Bertuzzi the only one to do something this stupid in the game? Everyone else took it out in the context of hockey, as in fights. Nobody else decided to take cheapshots. Again, it doesn't matter, Bert's a big boy, who makes conscious decisions and should now the repricutions and possible outcomes. Can you honestly tell me he doesn't know that he could seriously hurt someone by doing what he did. Just take the sucker punch without the aftermath, at the very least he knows that a punch like that could end someones career due to concussions.

People can try a justify it any way they want, "Moore shouldn't be on the ice," "the media created this," "Bertuzzi didn't intend to do this severity," but really it doesn't matter, because Bertuzzi did this,it has happened and the outcome is Moore is in hospital as we speak. Bertuzzi has ZERO defense here, he made the decision to do what he did.

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03-11-2004, 12:54 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13
Don't lump fans. Most around here knew the best place to hurt Boston/Mclaren was on the scoreboard. Nobody here wanted Mclaren carried off on a stretcher, and have his career, and personal life in serious jeopardy.

Also major differences. Bertuzzi's was premeditated, Mclaren's wasn't. Mclarens was in the context of the game, Bertuzzi's wasn't.

Here is the biggest difference, Montreal didn't react that way. What is the difference in peoples thinking that ends up with two drastically different outcomes? And why when after we see stars hit, which happens hundreds of times, why don't we see this more often.

Another thing, I live just outside Vancouver. I know what the fans are saying, the papers saying after Naslund was hammered. Many expected fights, nobody was thinking this.

People talk revenge, my question one person's thinking or lack there of, gets to this point. How does Bertuzzi's logic go from some form of sending a message to putting someone in hospital and having career and life well being threatening injuries.

Note - I am not directing this soley at you, so I don't want you to think I am picking on you. I would really like to know, how one mans thinking leads to the actually doing of such a crime.

if we were losing the next game big time and mclaren was on the ice , all helll would of broken lose!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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03-11-2004, 01:21 AM
  #114
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I posted this on the hockey talk board


Here's my take on the situation.

Bert should be suspended for the regular season. What he did was clearly wrong in the way he went about it. Moore had it coming no doubt. Don't give me your cry baby crap for those who sit behind a computer screen that have never played the game above pee wee. I am not saying what Bert did was right, cause it was way wrong and it makes me sick that he did that. But when you take out a teams top player, you have to send a message back to them that it's not acceptable.

Moore took a shot at Naslund, and got him good. He had to expect payback. What should have happened, is Bert should have dropped the gloves with Moore. A sucker punch is a cowardly way to go about payback. So he should pay for what he did, and he will.

But I do think this is way overblown, way way overblown. TSN's poll is a joke. A life time ban? WTF thats insane and I'm not a Bert fan or a Nuck fan but a life time ban is nuts. Even a year to me is way too much. But what do I know I thought the McSorly thing was way overblown as he could have hit him a lot harder and it ended his career (never liked McSorly anyways)

I just don't get people. Sitting here on there computers talking about if Bert is faking it when he was crying or not? give it a rest, he made a major mistake if he's sorry or not it doesn't change anything. What's done is done, and the NHL should be looking at themsleves as well, as their punishment system is a joke. Explain to me how Marchment trying to take players knees out isn't much of a big deal, or McLaren's hit on Zednik (I still can't believe some gutless puke boston fans lauged at that hit and even used it as their avatars).

Yes I saw the hit, and I've been sucker punched myself (although not by a 244 lb guy) I just believe that people can't think for themselves. What happened was more of an accident. I certanly believe that Bert meant to do it, but he was unlucky in the results. You can't tell me he meant to break the guys neck, it's just the way he fell on him (as it didn't look like he tried to drive him into the ice, but that he fell on top of him)

I know I'll get flamed for this, oh well, but if I were the NHL, Bert would get 10 games end of story.

Also I wouldn't point the only finger at Bert. I also point the finger at the NHL for the way give out light suspenions when players should get tougher fines. I'd point the finger at the Nucks organization, for all the imature bounty talk (if you want to get someone back, do it like a man, shut up and drop the gloves face to face)

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03-11-2004, 11:03 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs
Just how do you know what was premeditated, and what wasn't?
I love this argument. As soon as you decide to do something, isn't it premeditated? How far in advance does something have to be planned to be the "bad" kind of premeditated. Every fight is premeditated, as far as I'm concerned, as someone has to decide to throw the first punch. It's a useless starting point for determining the severity of the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs
Nobody expected it, I'm sure Bertuzzi never did either. It's not like he was thinking with a clear head at that moment. However, why would Granato keep Moore on the ice at the end of a 9-2 game, with tension thicker than ever at that point? Was he trying to stir things up himself?.
Good point... not that it excuses the actions of Bertuzzi, but he was obviously fishing for a reaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs
Because, he never meant to knock him out, and fall on his neck, with three players on top his 245lb body? People do incredibly stupid things, at a moments notice, and pay for it their entire life. Why does a drunk get behind the wheel? You can apply the same logic to thousands of mistakes made in our daily life..
Amen, no way for Bert to know he was knocked out by the one punch until they were on the ice and THREE OR FOUR PLAYERS PILE ON! Seriously though, does anyone think the injury would have been as bad if they hadn't? He still would have had a mean concussion, and thusly action should still be taken against Bert. However, those arguing that he should be punished because of the severity have to bear in mind that he didn't make it as bad as it was (although he obviously started it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs
Bertuzzi never set out to break a neck. Only he knows what he wanted to do. I suspect a nasty punch to the head was his intention, perhaps to send a vicous message. What transpired after the punch, was very unlucky to Moore and Todd will also live with the aftermath.
Word. Still gross to watch, and a black mark on the game. Shouldn't be criminal charges for above reasons, but agree that the league had to suspend him for atleast the rest of the season. Based on the fact I don't think they would have made it past 2 rounds, punishment is consistent with past incidents. Too bad for the Moore family and hockey.

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03-12-2004, 01:11 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by s7ark

Word. Still gross to watch, and a black mark on the game. Shouldn't be criminal charges for above reasons, but agree that the league had to suspend him for atleast the rest of the season. Based on the fact I don't think they would have made it past 2 rounds, punishment is consistent with past incidents. Too bad for the Moore family and hockey.
Word out of Vancouver, is, Moore could be fully recovered in 6 weeks, as his neck is not fractured as previously reported. Not trying to lessen the situation, but if the NHL based it's ruling on the media, and perhaps.. poorly reported facts, I wonder if he would be suspended through the playoffs?

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03-13-2004, 02:21 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Habs
Word out of Vancouver, is, Moore could be fully recovered in 6 weeks, as his neck is not fractured as previously reported. Not trying to lessen the situation, but if the NHL based it's ruling on the media, and perhaps.. poorly reported facts, I wonder if he would be suspended through the playoffs?
True enough. Might have gotten 20 games or something instead (maybe less? doubt it)... which makes a difference if they find themselves in a conference final (imagine against Colorado?!).

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03-13-2004, 04:23 AM
  #118
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I have to shake my head for this thread...

What Bertuzzi did was sick and wrong and I certainly don't want a player like that to play for my Canadiens... ever.

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03-13-2004, 01:32 PM
  #119
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I'd do like most people in my school program, and blame the goverment.


Last edited by ShootOut: 03-13-2004 at 01:37 PM.
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03-13-2004, 01:37 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by The Unseen Hand
I have to shake my head for this thread...

What Bertuzzi did was sick and wrong and I certainly don't want a player like that to play for my Canadiens... ever.

ya thank god your not bob gainey !!! dont let your feelings get involved when evaluating players!!!!

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03-13-2004, 02:33 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by montreal
I posted this on the hockey talk board


Here's my take on the situation.

Bert should be suspended for the regular season. What he did was clearly wrong in the way he went about it. Moore had it coming no doubt. Don't give me your cry baby crap for those who sit behind a computer screen that have never played the game above pee wee. I am not saying what Bert did was right, cause it was way wrong and it makes me sick that he did that. But when you take out a teams top player, you have to send a message back to them that it's not acceptable.

Moore took a shot at Naslund, and got him good. He had to expect payback. What should have happened, is Bert should have dropped the gloves with Moore. A sucker punch is a cowardly way to go about payback. So he should pay for what he did, and he will.

But I do think this is way overblown, way way overblown. TSN's poll is a joke. A life time ban? WTF thats insane and I'm not a Bert fan or a Nuck fan but a life time ban is nuts. Even a year to me is way too much. But what do I know I thought the McSorly thing was way overblown as he could have hit him a lot harder and it ended his career (never liked McSorly anyways)

I just don't get people. Sitting here on there computers talking about if Bert is faking it when he was crying or not? give it a rest, he made a major mistake if he's sorry or not it doesn't change anything. What's done is done, and the NHL should be looking at themsleves as well, as their punishment system is a joke. Explain to me how Marchment trying to take players knees out isn't much of a big deal, or McLaren's hit on Zednik (I still can't believe some gutless puke boston fans lauged at that hit and even used it as their avatars).

Yes I saw the hit, and I've been sucker punched myself (although not by a 244 lb guy) I just believe that people can't think for themselves. What happened was more of an accident. I certanly believe that Bert meant to do it, but he was unlucky in the results. You can't tell me he meant to break the guys neck, it's just the way he fell on him (as it didn't look like he tried to drive him into the ice, but that he fell on top of him)

I know I'll get flamed for this, oh well, but if I were the NHL, Bert would get 10 games end of story.

Also I wouldn't point the only finger at Bert. I also point the finger at the NHL for the way give out light suspenions when players should get tougher fines. I'd point the finger at the Nucks organization, for all the imature bounty talk (if you want to get someone back, do it like a man, shut up and drop the gloves face to face)
Wasn't it stupid for the Canucks to incite one of their most valuable players into acting as a goon and risk losing him? If it had been Jarkko Ruutu you wouldn't have expressed yourself this way. And don't blame the league,because they took the incident seriously. Blame the team, from the GM on down. :mad:

If the authorities prosecute Bertuzzi you can count on his getting a lot more than the equivalent of a 10-game suspension.

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