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Old
10-04-2009, 10:31 PM
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoalzie View Post
What a feeble effort...shoot me now.
It went beyond feeble to outright pathetic. I was there and got to watch it. One thing became very clear - Magglio needs to be at least part-time DH next year. He simply does not have the range to play right field any more. Comparing our outfield the the Sox was a real eye opener defensively.

Here's hoping Porcello can pitch us to the playoffs Tuesday.

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10-04-2009, 11:25 PM
  #252
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Good thing the Tigers are awesome when playing in the Dome... errrr, wait, they are terrible. I am actually thinking of going to see this game live.... but I am scared that it will turn into a nightmare.

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10-05-2009, 12:02 AM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Probert Owns You View Post
Good thing the Tigers are awesome when playing in the Dome... errrr, wait, they are terrible. I am actually thinking of going to see this game live.... but I am scared that it will turn into a nightmare.
I don't think anyone is looking forward to the Metrodump being torn down more than Tiger fans. If I had the chance, though, I'd go. at the very least you'll get a look at Porcello. I understand them sitting the kid saturday but I'd have loved to have seen him pitch.

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10-05-2009, 12:19 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I don't think anyone is looking forward to the Metrodump being torn down more than Tiger fans. If I had the chance, though, I'd go. at the very least you'll get a look at Porcello. I understand them sitting the kid saturday but I'd have loved to have seen him pitch.
My office is full of insufferable Twins fans.... I don't want to think about how crappy it will be if the Tigers lose... I'll never hear the end of it.

On the bright side, I get to wear my Cabrera jersey to work on Tuesday b/c of the game.

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10-05-2009, 07:07 AM
  #255
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I love the 5:00 start time...can work a regular day and get home by 5:30 and miss just an inning or so. I'm not happy it had to come to this but I'd rather they play this extra game in the event of a tie rather than just letting the Twins win the division based on the head-to-head season series.

This will be a great opportunity for Porcello to get a feel for postseason baseball...win or lose. I wonder if the rookie of the year voting comes after this game. If he wins Tuesday, don't you think he's the no-brainer pick for the award?

The ALDS won't start until Wednesday or Thursday...have to wonder which series the Yankees will choose now that it's not a choice of Tuesday or Wednesday like before. The way it would shake out...Jackson could probably start Game 1 on either day and then Verlander could start on Game 2.

GO TIGERS?!?!


Last edited by Shoalzie: 10-05-2009 at 07:14 AM.
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Old
10-05-2009, 08:23 AM
  #256
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You are going to jinx it.

I have class til 5:40. This is not good. Do I just skip out and come home?? I don't know what to do! If I don't skip class, I won't get home until after 6.

Hell, at the rate its going now, I'm going to be sick, so it won't matter.

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10-05-2009, 08:36 AM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Probert Owns You View Post
On the bright side, I get to wear my Cabrera jersey to work on Tuesday b/c of the game.


I've been wondering what was up with the scratches on his face from over the weekend...here's a possible answer:

http://freep.com/article/20091005/SP...91005019/1354/

I'm extremely disappointed that he's not be delivering on the field but then he's out partying at night and going home and fighting with his wife. And he lies and says he got scratched from his dog.

Idiot!

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10-05-2009, 08:54 AM
  #258
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I wondered what those were about...

Just goes to show that the other side has its whole set of issues too!

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10-05-2009, 09:00 AM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoalzie View Post
I've been wondering what was up with the scratches on his face from over the weekend...here's a possible answer:

http://freep.com/article/20091005/SP...91005019/1354/

I'm extremely disappointed that he's not be delivering on the field but then he's out partying at night and going home and fighting with his wife. And he lies and says he got scratched from his dog.

Idiot!
Definitely stupid and incredibly unprofessional. Still, he's also not the first athlete to do this stuff (and certainly not the first baseball player...). You have to hope he'll learn from it and re-evaluate his priorities for the future.

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10-05-2009, 09:28 AM
  #260
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With the contract Cabrera has, hell yeah the Tigers have to hope he gets his priorities straight and cuts out the distractions.

This Tigers team is such a disaster. Lose tomorrow, and they're the first MLB team in history to blow a three game lead with four to play. That would sum them up perfectly.

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10-05-2009, 10:33 AM
  #261
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My immediate reaction, if the Tigers lose tomorrow, would be disappointment. They will have blown a great opportunity to get in the playoffs. But before the season began no one had the Tigers even competing for the division. It was always the Twins and Chisox, some picked the Indians and the Tigers fell into either fourth or fifth. through some over achieving on their part and some underachieving by other teams, they have had unexpectedly competitive year and I have a hard time saying it hasn't been a successful season.

And going into next season, they probably have more potential coming up through the system than at any point in the past decade. That probably speaks volumes for where this franchise was but I think it also shows the team moving slowly forward.

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10-05-2009, 11:14 AM
  #262
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The funny thing is, the Tigers started the 2009 season with largely the same roster as the one in 2007 and 2008. There were a few changes, but all of the core players except Rogers came back. They were previously considered potential division winners and legitimate championship contenders with that roster. What happened? The 2008 season.

So I don't really give the team any break. I don't think they've exceeded, or even met, expectations. It's just that they were so horrible and far below expectations in previous seasons that everyone wrote them off (justifiably IMO).

Look at the payroll. Look at all of the dead money. Look at how they've got these horrible contracts that will continue to haunt them into next season, and seasons beyond (Guillen's is the worst in that regard, although I'm not very fond of Cabrera either. Mercifully, Mags will be off the books after one more year).

This team is built to suck for quite a while. Their only saving grace is the fact that the whole division sucks too. I also don't think their farm team is set to provide the infusion of talent that could turn this around. Other than the can't-miss selections of Verlander and Porcello, the best player to come up through the system is no longer with the team.... that's Jurgens. Meanwhile, other highly touted prospects such as Maybin, Miller and Humberto Sanchez have all been busts.

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10-05-2009, 12:12 PM
  #263
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Damn, DJ, you don't like Cabrera? He's fallen flat recently but he's put up MVP calibre numbers for the majority of the season. He's one of the best hitters in baseball and has even become a pretty respectable defensive first baseman. I can understand, and at least partially agree with, mentioning Guillen, Ordonez, Willis and Robertson but Cabrera is a franchise player, imo.

And I think you're selling the farm short quite a bit. Jurjjens has been effective for Atlanta but we have at least three starting pitching prospects who have clearly higher ceilings than him right now (Turner, Oliver, Crosby) and we broke another one in this year who has Verlander type upside with Porcello. For everyday players we have guys like Avila, Iorg, Sizemore and Strieby who look to be, at least, MLB quality players and could develop into pretty good starters. They may not have the best system in baseball but, compared to where they were, they've come a very long ways.

And I disagree about the team this year being largely the same as '06. Rogers was gone. Jones was gone. Walker has been gone. Pudge left. Zumaya had become an injury case and Bonderman missed the season after major surgery. That's 2 of our top starters from that year, our closer, our setup guy, another reliable reliever and our starting catcher who were either gone or insignificant contributers this season. Meanwhie guys like Magglio, Guillen and Polanco are three years older and showed it at times. they had a window to make another run in '07 but couldn't get it done. At this point, though, with their roster, I think they over achieved.

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10-05-2009, 03:07 PM
  #264
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There are a few reasons why I feel Cabrera is overrated. First, he was acquired to play third, but he can't field the position to save his life. I hold it against him because of the domino effect it has had on the defense. Secondly, I don't feel the "franchise player" or "sure HoF'er" tags apply. He's still quite young and has a very long way to go to reach the HoF finish line. He's also not one of the two or three premier players at his own position. Pujols, Fielder and Teixeira are all better IMO, and if we count all field players I do not rate Cabrera in the top ten. Finally, he's got personality issues. First it was his battle with bulge. Now we have a domestic violence / out drinking to 6am incident. How seriously does this guy take his job? Not very, it seems, and with the years and money left on deal that's a real concern. It's possible (if not likely) that Cabrera is heading down the problem child path, like Man Ram. That type of player can be OK as a complimentary player on a good team, but problems come to the surface when the spotlight is on them.


As far as the 2009 Tigers compared to the previous versions, the majority of the talent is still here. The same core players from 2007 and 2008, when we were picked to contend for the division, are here. Of them only Verlander, Cabrera and Rodney have met expectations. The reason why we weren't picked to contend for the division in 2009 was not the departure of any player(s), but rather the fact that in 2008 the players we do have were so very disappointing. If a student gets an "A", then follows that up with a couple of "D" grades, it shouldn't be a surprise when they score a "C" even though they're projected to get another "D". It is not that the results improved much, it's just that the expectations were so much lower that it became a lot easier to meet or exceed them.


It doesn't really matter, though. I'll keep saying that this Tigers team stinks, because they do. And that doesn't change whether they were expected to finish last or first, or whether they make the playoffs or not. Barely winning the worst division in baseball is no big feat, and I'm not enjoying the battle because I have realistic expectations of what the playoffs will hold... should the Tigers make it in.

Anyway, you know the Yankees will be pulling for the Tigers tomorrow. Having to use Verlander and Porcello just to have a shot to face them has put us in a real bad position.

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10-06-2009, 03:08 PM
  #265
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60 minutes...

Granderson, CF
Polanco, 2B
Ordonez, RF
Cabrera, 1B
Guillen, DH
Raburn, LF
Inge, 3B
Laird, C
Santiago, SS

Span, CF
Cabrera, SS
Mauer, C
Kubel, RF
Cuddyer, 1B
Young, LF
Morales, DH
Tolbert, 3B
Punto, 2B


Last edited by Shoalzie: 10-06-2009 at 03:13 PM.
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Old
10-06-2009, 08:48 PM
  #266
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10-06-2009, 08:50 PM
  #267
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I'm numb at this point...that game was insane. Congrats to the Twins...

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10-06-2009, 08:51 PM
  #268
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They only have themselves to blame for that one. I think umping was 95% fair, and the pitching was superb. Even Rodney had a good performance.

*sigh* I love having two sports going at the same time that I thoroughly enjoy. Oh well.

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10-06-2009, 08:57 PM
  #269
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i think Laird's gonna need the heimlich... why the hell is Avila not hitting w/ the bases loaded instead of that chump?

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10-06-2009, 09:20 PM
  #270
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And the epic fail is completed. Laird has no business getting 4 cracks with RISP tonight. Leyland was out-managed.

****ing terrible.

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10-06-2009, 10:31 PM
  #271
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Quote:
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i think Laird's gonna need the heimlich... why the hell is Avila not hitting w/ the bases loaded instead of that chump?
After a hot August, Avila hit .174 in september. My guess is that the kid had simply hit the wall. I think he just converted to catcher the past year or two, so suffering from sheer exhaustion at that point wouldn't be overly surprising.

It sucks that Laird hit like, well, Laird but we had more guys than just him come up empty with RISP and we didn't help ourselves defensively. In the end, a team with a lot of question marks played a bit like a team with a lot of question marks but it was still a good season.

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10-07-2009, 08:38 AM
  #272
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Ilitch needs to rename his baseball team the Detroit Ligers, because only a complete failure of a franchise - like the Lions - is capable of such an epic collapse.

What can I say. There are at least half a dozen games in which questionable decisions by Leyland played a key part of a loss (putting Kelly in left as a defensive replacement, when he had never played a single game in the metrodome before, during the last series against the Twins in Minnie is the most glaring, but there are many more). Dombrowski has done a horrible job, spending money on questionable players and making several bad trades. Then we have several underachieving veterans, most notably Polanco and Ordonez.

Add it all up, and this team provided the maximum amount of excitement this season given the scenario. I don't see how an ALDS series against the Yankees could have been anything short of brutal, so at least we were spared that experience.

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10-07-2009, 01:34 PM
  #273
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Quote:
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Ilitch needs to rename his baseball team the Detroit Ligers, because only a complete failure of a franchise - like the Lions - is capable of such an epic collapse.

What can I say. There are at least half a dozen games in which questionable decisions by Leyland played a key part of a loss (putting Kelly in left as a defensive replacement, when he had never played a single game in the metrodome before, during the last series against the Twins in Minnie is the most glaring, but there are many more). Dombrowski has done a horrible job, spending money on questionable players and making several bad trades. Then we have several underachieving veterans, most notably Polanco and Ordonez.

Add it all up, and this team provided the maximum amount of excitement this season given the scenario. I don't see how an ALDS series against the Yankees could have been anything short of brutal, so at least we were spared that experience.
The Tigers choked away the final week of the season but they were also like 16-12 in september and played pretty much how they should have - like a team who wins at a .530 clip. At some point, Minny has to be given credit for playing .800 ball over the last month of the season and mounting a great run.

But I agree with that last bit though for probably different reasons. I think the Tigers did provide as much entertainment and excitement as should have been expected from this year. It was a far from perfect year but they did pretty well.

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10-07-2009, 01:54 PM
  #274
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For sure the Twins deserve some credit for the way they played the last month of the season. Didn't they have a 12 game run from mid to late September in which they went 11 - 1? That's clutch baseball.

However, I think despite that late charge, all the Twins really did was play good enough to make it close. When it comes down to it, the Tigers choked... badly. All they had to do was play .500 baseball over the last four games of the season, or play .250 baseball but win that last game against the Twins at CoPa. They didn't.

A 1 - 4 finish is definitely an epic collapse. The Twins were something like 7 1/2 back with a month to go. Even for a very flawed baseball team like the Tigers, when they have Verlander and Porcello pitching 40% of the time it's pretty sad that all they could do was play a little over .500 baseball.

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10-07-2009, 04:40 PM
  #275
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You have to give credit to the Twins for just taking care of their own business. They could've packed up the tent when they lost Morneau and Crede and they were already without Slowey, their best starter this year. Imagine the Tigers trying to stay in the race without (a sober) Cabrera, Inge and Verlander.

The Twins won 16 of their final 20 games just to force a tie and it wasn't like the Tigers were flat out awful the entire way down the stretch. They went 16-12 in September but going 1-4 in October was the difference. I wouldn't call it as much of a collapse as I'd just say the Twins got hot when they had to. That team showed guts and character when it mattered. They were a game below .500 before their last 20-game tear.

The Friday and Saturday games against the White Sox made me much more upset than losing last night. Last night, they played like a team worthy of a division title. When they held the lead, the fire wasn't there while the Twins were balls out for a 3-week stretch.

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