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Leafs Offered Top 5 Pick for Schenn

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Old
02-02-2009, 10:59 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by cottonking View Post

As is ... why would the Leafs trade Schenn for a "top 5 pick?" Schenn WAS a top 5 pick. What do the Leafs get out of this? Stupid rumor.
Well, it's not exactly a rumour, it came right from the horse's mouth(Burke).

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02-02-2009, 11:01 AM
  #52
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I have a feeling Tampa offered the pick.

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02-02-2009, 11:02 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
Are you kidding me? That's just silly.
I'd wager a large amount of money that Hedman will have a better career than Schenn. He's currently tearing up the SEL at 18, which is an amazing feat. He's just bigger, stronger, and more talented than Schenn was last year at the same point in his life... in fact he's probably already passed him skill-wise and is only going to get better. That's not a knock on Schenn, who is certainly an NHL-capable defenseman, but Hedman just looks that good.

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02-02-2009, 11:04 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I think the "low ceiling" comment means he will probably never be on the 1st or 2nd all star team at the end of the season, nor will he win a Norris. To me, he looks like he is never going to score much more than 20 - 25 points a season.

Now,that doens't mean he won't be an absolute stud and one heck of a valuable player, but it is reasonable to say that a player with little offensive ability does not have a "high ceiling."

The kind of upside I see from Schenn is Robyn Regher or Adam Foote. Well worth a top five pick any way you slice it.
Intangible skills such as defence, hokcey IQ, two way play, are not as easilly mesasured/quantified as say point and goals. But at the same time, a point can be argued that they are just as important. You may not be far off from your assesment of Schenn's future ability to score points, however my point being having upside in defensive abiltiy two way play is still upside, not as sexy as skating, goals and assists. Time will tell; i'm a huge fan of Adam Foote would love to see the 2.0 edition. Hope you make your way back to our boad sometime, you provide excellent posts and insights.

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02-02-2009, 11:04 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by DungeonK View Post
I'd wager a large amount of money that Hedman will have a better career than Schenn. He's currently tearing up the SEL at 18, which is an amazing feat. He's just bigger, stronger, and more talented than Schenn was last year at the same point in his life... in fact he's probably already passed him skill-wise and is only going to get better. That's not a knock on Schenn, who is certainly an NHL-capable defenseman, but Hedman just looks that good.
100% agree. Hedman has the potential to be a better version of Pronger. He's light years better offensively than Schenn and his defensive abilities are pretty much on par. The guy who said he wouldn't trade Schenn for Hedman is just crazy.

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02-02-2009, 11:08 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by DungeonK View Post
I'd wager a large amount of money that Hedman will have a better career than Schenn. He's currently tearing up the SEL at 18, which is an amazing feat. He's just bigger, stronger, and more talented than Schenn was last year at the same point in his life... in fact he's probably already passed him skill-wise and is only going to get better. That's not a knock on Schenn, who is certainly an NHL-capable defenseman, but Hedman just looks that good.
I don't see a lot of Hedman but in the wjc he didnt live up to his press clippings. He was billed as an offensive defenceman but was overshadowed by Karllson who had much quicker hands and better vision. In his own words he does not like the physical side of the game so his size alone does not impress me

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02-02-2009, 11:08 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
100% agree. Hedman has the potential to be a better version of Pronger. He's light years better offensively than Schenn and his defensive abilities are pretty much on par. The guy who said he wouldn't trade Schenn for Hedman is just crazy.
Thats true, top 5 pick would be ok, but whoever trades Tavares or Hedman for Schenn is an idiot. They haven't proven anything but their upside is much higher.

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02-02-2009, 11:08 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by sda View Post
I don't see a lot of Hedman but in the wjc he didnt live up to his press clippings. He was billed as an offensive defenceman but was overshadowed by Karllson who had much quicker hands and better vision. In his own words he does not like the physical side of the game so his size alone does not impress me
Arguably Subban looked better then Hedman, but I seriously doubt that is the case..

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02-02-2009, 11:11 AM
  #59
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There are 29 teams that would want him.

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02-02-2009, 11:12 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by sda View Post
I don't see a lot of Hedman but in the wjc he didnt live up to his press clippings. He was billed as an offensive defenceman but was overshadowed by Karllson who had much quicker hands and better vision. In his own words he does not like the physical side of the game so his size alone does not impress me
I thought Hedman was fantastic in the wjc. What impresses me the most was his agiltiy and skating ability for such a big man. He has the size to become very good defensively and has good hockey smarts. That being said, not sure if I would trade Schenn for a top 5 pick though.

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02-02-2009, 11:17 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by TML4LIFE View Post
I thought Hedman was fantastic in the wjc. What impresses me the most was his agiltiy and skating ability for such a big man. He has the size to become very good defensively and has good hockey smarts. That being said, not sure if I would trade Schenn for a top 5 pick though.
size isn't as big of an advantage if you aren't willing to play physical. Pronger was good because he was willing to use his big body to dominate physically. people want to compare Hedman to Pronger but I see two completely different types of player

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02-02-2009, 11:20 AM
  #62
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I think the "bust" comment comes from posts like this from Sens fans...

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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Leafs flub a top 5 pick and they're not going to get the Sens pick to try and make up for the mistake.
Schenn is hardly a flub. Schenn's value right now is slightly more than an average top 5 pick, only because he has proven to some extent that he can play in the NHL. However, his value is still lower than some top 5 picks that are almost sure things (like Tavares and Hedman).
So, I wouldn't trade Schenn for just an average top 5 pick... even with the added lottery chances, doesn't seem like it would be worth it unless the Leafs win the lottery. Too big of a risk.

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Old
02-02-2009, 11:22 AM
  #63
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Burke is basically telling everyone is trying to make a significant move , he just doesn't have a great amount to work with. Moving Schenn isn't going to happen and he knows that, but by telling everyone how valuable he is , it show's people he is working the phones and what kind of value he is looking for from his players.

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02-02-2009, 11:23 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
100% agree. Hedman has the potential to be a better version of Pronger. He's light years better offensively than Schenn and his defensive abilities are pretty much on par. The guy who said he wouldn't trade Schenn for Hedman is just crazy.
Didn't you just post a rant about overvaluing kids? Hedman better than Pronger? According to you, a player who has played in the NHL has more value than a potential prospect that has no NHL experience, right? Therefore, Schenn>Hedman. Practice what you preach.

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02-02-2009, 11:23 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by sda View Post
size isn't as big of an advantage if you aren't willing to play physical. Pronger was good because he was willing to use his big body to dominate physically. people want to compare Hedman to Pronger but I see two completely different types of player
Agreed on the Pronger/Hedman comparison, I don't see it. Hedman size alone (minus the physical side) reach+size and his sakting ability makes him difficult to beat one on one. Certainlly a mean streak wouldn't hurt, but to come down the wing looking at a guy like Hedman, he sure won't make it easy on the forwards. I think he will be a very special player.

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02-02-2009, 11:25 AM
  #66
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I don't know, this really isn't as clear cut as some people are making it out to be here.

Any two of Tavares, Hedman, Svensson-Pajaarvi, Kane, Cowen, Duchene is probably just as compelling if not more so than any one of those guys and Schenn. Depends on what you want your team to look like.

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02-02-2009, 11:39 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by sda View Post
did anybody see Schenn walk around that forward(not sure who) on saturday. watch that move and how he handles the puck and you will see that Schenn is much more skilled than people are giving him credit for

I've heard these arguments before. Right after Jackman won the ROY, Blues fans were telling us that he would one day develop offense. I heard the same about Robyn Regehr and others.

Schenn has never shown an ounce of offensive ability at any stage of development. If he every scores more than 20 - 25 points in the NHL, I'm going to be very surprised. Its more likely that he has seasons of 1 - 2 goals a year.

All that said, the idea that the leafs "flubbed" the pick is silly. Schenn could be totally dominant in his own end - sort of a Larry Robinson without the offense. A guy like that is definitely worth a top five pick.

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02-02-2009, 11:43 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Shame View Post
I think the "bust" comment comes from posts like this from Sens fans...



Schenn is hardly a flub. Schenn's value right now is slightly more than an average top 5 pick, only because he has proven to some extent that he can play in the NHL. However, his value is still lower than some top 5 picks that are almost sure things (like Tavares and Hedman).
So, I wouldn't trade Schenn for just an average top 5 pick... even with the added lottery chances, doesn't seem like it would be worth it unless the Leafs win the lottery. Too big of a risk.


Sen fans hate the Leafs more than they love their own team, at least Leaf fans would give credit where credit is due. Sen fans to make themselves feel better must put down anything Leaf related or make excuses for the inadequacies of their team .

There is no way I'd trade him for a top 5 pick though, just because the new prospects are trendy don't mean they are better

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02-02-2009, 11:44 AM
  #69
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You cannot compare Tavares to Schenn, being as they are on two different positions and will help the team in different ways..

You can compare Hedman to Schenn, Both can be shut-down defenceman, and can get you points here and there..

You gotta compare apples to apples, and to be honest, I'd take Schenn over any defenceman who goes top 5 (being just Hedman?)

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02-02-2009, 11:49 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I don't know, this really isn't as clear cut as some people are making it out to be here.

Any two of Tavares, Hedman, Svensson-Pajaarvi, Kane, Cowen, Duchene is probably just as compelling if not more so than any one of those guys and Schenn. Depends on what you want your team to look like.
Why would our first be taken into consideration? Its Schenn or a top 5 pick. Our first won't change based on that trade.

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02-02-2009, 11:50 AM
  #71
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Would be a stupid trade because Schenn could help the other team improve their pick and it could be out of top 5 range.

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02-02-2009, 11:51 AM
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Perhaps the Isles are offering the trade because Tavares has told them he's not going to play there.

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02-02-2009, 11:53 AM
  #73
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Would be a stupid trade because Schenn could help the other team improve their pick and it could be out of top 5 range.
It depends...I know Im out to wack...

but to NYI: Schenn, Leafs 1st 2009
to TOR: Okposo/Bailey, NYI 1st 2009

That'd be the only way I'd rid of him, and get flamed by those of HF

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02-02-2009, 11:55 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Agi View Post
mmmhmmmm, reading comments from users on this board and others feel that the Leafs "flubbed" their pick on a "Chris Phillips"
Chris Phillips is an absolute stud and I'd take him in LA anyday. The Leafs are lucky if Schenn becomes as good as Phillips but I think he has more offensive upside than he gets credit for.

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02-02-2009, 11:56 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
Didn't you just post a rant about overvaluing kids? Hedman better than Pronger? According to you, a player who has played in the NHL has more value than a potential prospect that has no NHL experience, right? Therefore, Schenn>Hedman. Practice what you preach.
I apologize that you failed reading in grade school as you clearly don't understand the meaning of the word POTENTIALLY. I don't remember ever saying that Hedman now is better than Pronger is.

As for Schenn vs. Hedman, we aren't talking about an established star for a prospect. The kids are 1 year apart in age so it's not a huge leap to compare them directly. Hedman would be in the NHL right now had he been the same age as Schenn. Would he be having a better season? I don't know for sure, but I think he'd be more of an impact player. My "rant" was on the ridiculous notion that people post saying that for Detroit, for example, to get a top 5 pick they'd have to trade Datsyuk/Zetterberg +++ but that Luke freakin Schenn alone is far more valuable than the same pick. That means basically that Datsyuk, Filppula, Kindl, 09 1st, 10 1st = value of Luke Schenn according to HF logic. See the retardedness of it now?

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