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Official MMA Thread: Part IX

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Old
02-04-2009, 10:06 AM
  #51
ZombieMatt
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I'm not checking this, so I apologize if I'm way off, but didn't Velasquez have just two pro MMA fights when he joined the UFC compared to something like 5 to 8 for Carwin? It may just be a matter of bringing a guy along appropriately. I'm always concerned about guys getting huge fights after just 2-3 fights. The Brock Lesnar's of the world are exceptions in a well-booked fight world.

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Old
02-04-2009, 10:39 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt MacInnis View Post
I'm not checking this, so I apologize if I'm way off, but didn't Velasquez have just two pro MMA fights when he joined the UFC compared to something like 5 to 8 for Carwin? It may just be a matter of bringing a guy along appropriately. I'm always concerned about guys getting huge fights after just 2-3 fights. The Brock Lesnar's of the world are exceptions in a well-booked fight world.
You are right he did, but it still doesn't make much sense to me. The HW division is weak, time to start promoting these up and comers, let them fight higher caliber guys. If he fights Herring and loses they can spin it the same way the spun the Brock loss, inexperience.

Regardless of their pro records, their UFC records are identical. They both have 2 fights under their belts against fringe fighters (Cain has had the tougher fights if you ask mois). The question is, why is Carwin getting Gonzaga and Velasquez a nobody? I really don't think a Velasquez/Kongo matchup would be that crazy.

All I'm saying is that if Carwin is ready for Gonzaga, Velasquez is certainly ready for Kongo.

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Old
02-04-2009, 11:22 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Cunney View Post
Regardless of their pro records, their UFC records are identical. They both have 2 fights under their belts against fringe fighters (Cain has had the tougher fights if you ask mois). The question is, why is Carwin getting Gonzaga and Velasquez a nobody? I really don't think a Velasquez/Kongo matchup would be that crazy.

All I'm saying is that if Carwin is ready for Gonzaga, Velasquez is certainly ready for Kongo.
I'd go so far as to say that Velasquez would manhandle him given Kongo's terrible ground game, but I'm really not a Kongo fan so I could just be biased.

FWIW the whole blowup with AKA happened just before the Carwin and Velasquez fights were booked and Velasquez was one of the guys Dana was super-pissed at (along with Fitch and Wellisch if memory serves) so I wonder if this is a bit of backlash.

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Old
02-04-2009, 11:30 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by colonel_korn View Post
I'd go so far as to say that Velasquez would manhandle him given Kongo's terrible ground game, but I'm really not a Kongo fan so I could just be biased.

FWIW the whole blowup with AKA happened just before the Carwin and Velasquez fights were booked and Velasquez was one of the guys Dana was super-pissed at (along with Fitch and Wellisch if memory serves) so I wonder if this is a bit of backlash.
I was thinking of the same thing, similar to Fitch fighting on the under card one fight after he was fighting for the title....Dana knows how to hold a grudge.

I think Velasquez could dominate Kongo also, similar to the way Herring did. Kongo might be one of the most over-rated fighters around, at least in his own head. This guy shouldn't even be mentioned for a title shot at this time. I was really hoping they'd match him up with Gonzaga instead of Carwin. Gabe would've crushed him.

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Old
02-04-2009, 12:30 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by LiquidClown View Post
My 2 cents of course. I would like to see the fight after the Thales Leites fight. Both guys have nothing left in their respective divisions.
Okami? A rematch with Henderson?

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Old
02-04-2009, 12:39 PM
  #56
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Okami? A rematch with Henderson?
Agreed. Especially on the Okami front. I'd definitely like to see Henderson get a rematch too... I was actually talking with a friend of mine about that the other day.

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Old
02-04-2009, 01:12 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensane View Post
Okami? A rematch with Henderson?
I know Dan is getting old, but it has always been my thought that he is the one that will beat Anderson.

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Old
02-04-2009, 01:15 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensane View Post
Okami? A rematch with Henderson?
Agree on both fronts.

Okami - what else does he need to do? There is no way that Thales should be getting a shot over Okami.

Hendo - Made one mistake in the first match (a bout I thought he was winning) and got caught. After he destroys Bisping, Hendo/Silva II will be a very marketable fight.

I'd even throw Nate Marquardt in the mix also, if he keeps winning I'd like to see him get a rematch.

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Old
02-04-2009, 01:20 PM
  #59
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I must be one of the few people who isn't all that enthused by an Anderson/Henderson rematch. People put a ton of stock into Henderson winning the first round of that fight (making him the only guy to take a round off of Silva in the UFC) but to do that he really just got one takedown to side control and then did his best to stall for like two minutes in order to not lose position while dropping weak punches and trying to cover Anderson's mouth. Once Anderson turned it up in the second round (I read somewhere that he was absolutely infuriated by Henderson repeatedly covering his mouth ), Dan got his ass kicked. And since then all he's done is rack up a couple of tepid decision wins, albeit against pretty good opponents. To me the only question a rematch answers is "given a second chance, can Dan Henderson take Silva down and hold him there long enough over 25 minutes, while avoiding getting lit up, to win a decision?" (A: probably not) It's not a fight I'm really all that interested in.

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Old
02-04-2009, 01:20 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by kurt View Post
Agreed. Especially on the Okami front. I'd definitely like to see Henderson get a rematch too... I was actually talking with a friend of mine about that the other day.
I think the UFC is worried about an Okami-Silva selling PPVs. They could market the whole Okami holds a win over Silva angle (albeit by DQ), and they would likely wait until they could pair the fight with a Couture, Liddell, or Lesnar co-main event fight because those guys are huge PPV draws (e.g. UFC 97 - Silva-Leites & Liddell-Rua).

As for Henderson, that fight will happen after the next Ultimate Fighter season that sets Hendo against Bisping. The winner of that fight will most likely get a title shot against Silva, owing to all the exposure and marketing they will receive from appearing on TUF.

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Old
02-04-2009, 01:37 PM
  #61
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Well...I've been off the site for a few days, so here's my take on a couple of things...

Greasegate - I think that it wasn't done intentionally, looking at replays of the fight Penn didn't have his legs up that high and I think that GSP's posturing would have had more to do with BJ not being able to get a submission or hold him down. I heard that there are a lot of other fighters starting to say the same thing which I think is BS. There was a very small amount put on GSP's back if anything and Penn was already being owned. I hope that they do a 3rd match so that GSP can put his fist down BJ's throat and shut him up once and for all.

GSP vs. Anderson Silva - As a GSP fan and a MMA fan, this is not a good fight. Silva has the KO power at LWH so this doesn't make sense for GSP. It makes more sense for Silva to go up than it does for GSP to go up because the physical gap would be less to overcome. I also don't want to see this fight because if it's a flash KO, that injury would follow GSP around for the rest of his career. Ever since Wandy got KO'd by Cro-Cop he's had a couple more bad KO's. Does it make sense for the UFC to have one of it's poster boys suffer an injury like this when Anderson Silva repeatedly states that he'll probably retire at the end of his contract? Catch weight makes less sense than a MW fight because all it is for Anderson is a cut. GSP needs to fight at the heavier weight to have the mass to be able to deal with Silva. Yes, the cut would maybe leave Silva weaker in the later rounds but I don't think that it makes it to the later rounds either way. If GSP wins, I think it's by taking him down and submitting him. Call me crazy, but Anderson's been in trouble on his back a couple of times. Yes, I know he's a black belt in BJJ, but I think it can be done. GSP would capitalize where Lutter and Hendo failed. I think GSP loses this fight 9/10 times right now, but in a couple more years I think this fight is a lot closer. Flame away.

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Old
02-04-2009, 01:48 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colonel_korn View Post
I must be one of the few people who isn't all that enthused by an Anderson/Henderson rematch. People put a ton of stock into Henderson winning the first round of that fight (making him the only guy to take a round off of Silva in the UFC) but to do that he really just got one takedown to side control and then did his best to stall for like two minutes in order to not lose position while dropping weak punches and trying to cover Anderson's mouth. Once Anderson turned it up in the second round (I read somewhere that he was absolutely infuriated by Henderson repeatedly covering his mouth ), Dan got his ass kicked. And since then all he's done is rack up a couple of tepid decision wins, albeit against pretty good opponents. To me the only question a rematch answers is "given a second chance, can Dan Henderson take Silva down and hold him there long enough over 25 minutes, while avoiding getting lit up, to win a decision?" (A: probably not) It's not a fight I'm really all that interested in.
Agreed. Henderson "winning" that round wasn't all that impressive. I still think his style could pose problems for Silva.

If and when Silva gets past Okami, he will have pretty much cleaned out the division, but I still think there are some deserving candidates for title fights in the next year or two. The winner of Henderson/Bisping most certainly deserves a crack, and Captain said, if Marquardt can beat Gouviea, I think he's pretty deserving of a rematch.

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:11 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensane View Post
if Marquardt can beat Gouviea, I think he's pretty deserving of a rematch.


Serious question, does anyone else see Nate holding the MW strap for a good run once Anderson packs it in? I think he could be a pretty dominant force for once ANderson is gone.

Everytime I see him fight I'm more and more impressed with him. His ground game speaks for itself and his striking has improved ten fold over the last year, IMO. I think he was bit rushed into his first title shot due to the lack of contenders in the division. I think this years version of Nate will give Anderson all kinds of trouble. However, I must admit that Nate has quickly become one of my top 3 fav. fighters so I may be wearing the homer shades here.

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:18 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Captain_Cunney View Post
The question is, why is Carwin getting Gonzaga and Velasquez a nobody? I really don't think a Velasquez/Kongo matchup would be that crazy.
Carwin is what, 34? They don't want him to be an old man before he potentially gets in the title picture. Velasquez is 8 years younger, they can afford to take some time with him.

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:23 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Captain_Cunney View Post


Serious question, does anyone else see Nate holding the MW strap for a good run once Anderson packs it in? I think he could be a pretty dominant force for once ANderson is gone.

Everytime I see him fight I'm more and more impressed with him. His ground game speaks for itself and his striking has improved ten fold over the last year, IMO. I think he was bit rushed into his first title shot due to the lack of contenders in the division. I think this years version of Nate will give Anderson all kinds of trouble. However, I must admit that Nate has quickly become one of my top 3 fav. fighters so I may be wearing the homer shades here.
I think Marquardt is one of those guys who will always be in the title picture at 185. His game is very well rounded and he's a bigger 185, so I think logistically he could pose problems for almost anyone in the division past Silva.

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:38 PM
  #66
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I've always respected your posts Birko but I have to respectfully disagree here. I'm not out to knock GSP's achievements but the way A. Silva has dismantled opponents I have to think that he's on another planet when it comes to MMA. Silva has laser guided punches and kicks that end up EXACTLY where they are intended. He's second behind Machida in hits taken per match. The only thing comparable to GSP getting knocked out is Chonan's unbelievable flying scissor into a heal hook, and I'm still not convinced that actually happened

I think we'd see GSP on the other end of the fight we just saw against Penn. Both incredibly talented athletes but moving up in weight just doesn't seem like a good idea.

My 2 cents of course. I would like to see the fight after the Thales Leites fight. Both guys have nothing left in their respective divisions.
I remember back in highschool at one point we used to have a fightclub for fun among my friends and others from school, we used to wear boxing gloves but anything goes from striking to submissions, due to my size and strength at the time I dominated my opponents like no other and went undefeated, I guess the way I defeated my opponents makes me a more accomplished fighter than Silva

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:13 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Birko19 View Post
I remember back in highschool at one point we used to have a fightclub for fun among my friends and others from school, we used to wear boxing gloves but anything goes from striking to submissions, due to my size and strength at the time I dominated my opponents like no other and went undefeated, I guess the way I defeated my opponents makes me a more accomplished fighter than Silva
You know that Anderson Silva makes weight for his fights, right?

This isn't Thiago Alves, Travis Lutter or Gina Carano we're talking about.

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02-04-2009, 03:23 PM
  #68
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BJ officially files a protest. Brutal.

http://mmamania.com/2009/02/04/bj-pe...rre-at-ufc-94/

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:27 PM
  #69
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You know that Anderson Silva makes weight for his fights, right?

This isn't Thiago Alves, Travis Lutter or Gina Carano we're talking about.
I'm not saying Silva is a second tier fighter, no he's a top fighter and the best middleweight currently, my main point is GSP's opponents are tougher than Silva's, clearly when you have tougher opponents, you're less likely to destroy them the same way Silva does to his opponents.

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02-04-2009, 03:32 PM
  #70
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BJ officially files a protest. Brutal.

http://mmamania.com/2009/02/04/bj-pe...rre-at-ufc-94/
They will not change the outcome, and even if they did, everyone knows the beating BJ got, no excuses.

This will only motivate GSP to prove a point in his next fight, and if he does finish off Alves, he should offer BJ a third rematch and let's see if BJ will accept it.

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Old
02-04-2009, 04:42 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Shadyone33 View Post
BJ officially files a protest. Brutal.

http://mmamania.com/2009/02/04/bj-pe...rre-at-ufc-94/
Poorly written article that contains hyperbole.

Quote:
...generous helping of petroleum jelly on the backside of the Canadian...
Quote:
...St. Pierre during the match (who was subsequently found going overboard with Vaseline)...
Now residual Vaseline from rubbing GSP's face and then touching his back/shoulders has become a "generous helping" and "overboard"?

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Old
02-04-2009, 04:55 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Birko19 View Post
I'm not saying Silva is a second tier fighter, no he's a top fighter and the best middleweight currently, my main point is GSP's opponents are tougher than Silva's, clearly when you have tougher opponents, you're less likely to destroy them the same way Silva does to his opponents.
I'm not arguing that the middleweight division is close to as deep as the welterweight division, but Anderson Silva's dominating performances against world class opponents such as Rich Franklin (twice), Nate Marquardt, and Dan Henderson are nothing to take lightly.

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Old
02-04-2009, 05:34 PM
  #73
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After Alves, Is there any chance Carlos Condit could hang in thier with GSP?

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Old
02-04-2009, 06:10 PM
  #74
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If any one is interested, GSP responded today to BJ Penn and his camp's comments about "greasing." He sounded quite angry about the accusations and offered to fight BJ Penn 10 more times in rash guards if that is what it takes.

Beatdown-GSP

His interview starts at ~95 min. mark.

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Old
02-04-2009, 06:13 PM
  #75
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I think this whole grease thing will eventually cool off and end, I would say the next fight is very important for GSP, if he wins it the people will keep quiet, forget about BJ, and start talking about a GSP/Silva matchup.

BJ is just doing this to cover up how badly he was beat.

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