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Tkachuk to MTL , what does it take !?

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Old
02-03-2009, 07:43 AM
  #26
Jeffro
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
You mean other then the fact that he is two years older, slower and producing slightly less? Add that he would not resign in Atlanta, who stupidly gave up all that for him, and went back to the Blues....I would be extremly surprised if anyone was willing to give up anything close to that again for him.
He's playing much better this year than he did that year. Now, the difference is that Atlanta was desperate to make the playoffs that year. They gave up a first, a conditional first, a second, and a third (and Metropolit to even out salary). Even assuming he's two years worse, trim off the conditional first, the second, and the return player. That's a late first and a third. Or Halak and a second. Either/or.

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02-03-2009, 07:45 AM
  #27
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Actually I believe he is producing more now then back in 2007, and the deal had a clause that Atlanta would have to give an extra pick (I forget the details) if they signed him, which effectively prevented them from doing that. So that was the price for Tkachuk as a rental for one spring. If you want to argue that Waddell overpaid that's fine, but that is still the closest thing to an actual market price. Trade dead line pickups tend to be pricey.
The other pick was another 1st rounder.
We traded that 1st back to Atlanta for the negotiating rights to Walt before the FA
period began.

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02-03-2009, 08:03 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffro View Post
He's playing much better this year than he did that year. Now, the difference is that Atlanta was desperate to make the playoffs that year. They gave up a first, a conditional first, a second, and a third (and Metropolit to even out salary). Even assuming he's two years worse, trim off the conditional first, the second, and the return player. That's a late first and a third. Or Halak and a second. Either/or.
I read a lot of Blues fans citing the Atlanta deal as the sticking point in terms of what Tkachuk's value is. But hasn't he made more than a few comments this year to the effect that he's not doing that again? If memory serves correct, I believe he was pretty reluctant to waive his NTC at the time, but agreed to do it after talking it over with his family, only to have it end up being a bad experience. Even if Strickland's list of teams is hypothetical, is it fair to assume that Tkachuk is far less open to simply going to the highest bidder than he was 2 years ago? I don't think he, or the Blues for that matter, feel like he owes them that based on the fact that he just did it 2 years ago.

The point: his return is going to be less than it was 2 years ago because this time he's going to be far more selective about where he goes, thus eliminating the possibility of a wide-scale bidding war for his services. I think most teams that are interested are going to make their offers, the Blues will then tell Keith who is interested, and he'll be able to pick the team that he wants to play for.

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Old
02-03-2009, 08:37 AM
  #29
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Trade for Kovalev. Anything to get that fake out of Mtl.

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Old
02-03-2009, 09:10 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Neely06 View Post
I read a lot of Blues fans citing the Atlanta deal as the sticking point in terms of what Tkachuk's value is. But hasn't he made more than a few comments this year to the effect that he's not doing that again? If memory serves correct, I believe he was pretty reluctant to waive his NTC at the time, but agreed to do it after talking it over with his family, only to have it end up being a bad experience. Even if Strickland's list of teams is hypothetical, is it fair to assume that Tkachuk is far less open to simply going to the highest bidder than he was 2 years ago? I don't think he, or the Blues for that matter, feel like he owes them that based on the fact that he just did it 2 years ago.

The point: his return is going to be less than it was 2 years ago because this time he's going to be far more selective about where he goes, thus eliminating the possibility of a wide-scale bidding war for his services. I think most teams that are interested are going to make their offers, the Blues will then tell Keith who is interested, and he'll be able to pick the team that he wants to play for.
He's not going to the "highest bidder" this time around.
He'll limit his list to strictly Cup contenders.

That said, that in no way "lowers" his value. If anything, it raises it. If you're a team like Boston or Montreal, who view themselves as legit threats for the Cup, would you really want a PP weapon like Tkachuk going to your competition? Of course not, and you'll pay a bit more to see that it doesn't happen.

We see this all the time and this year is no different. There will be a bidding war for Tkachuk, and it will be a much higher stake game than most PO rentals and the return will be higher than most of you want to think.

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Old
02-03-2009, 09:34 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
He's not going to the "highest bidder" this time around.
He'll limit his list to strictly Cup contenders.

That said, that in no way "lowers" his value. If anything, it raises it. If you're a team like Boston or Montreal, who view themselves as legit threats for the Cup, would you really want a PP weapon like Tkachuk going to your competition? Of course not, and you'll pay a bit more to see that it doesn't happen.

We see this all the time and this year is no different. There will be a bidding war for Tkachuk, and it will be a much higher stake game than most PO rentals and the return will be higher than most of you want to think.
We'll certainly see what happens, and you could be right. But my point is that if Tkachuck doesn't want to go one of the teams that is involved in this bidding war, then why would the other team up the ante that much? For example, if Boston and Montreal are the two teams aggressively bidding for his services and Blues management comes back to both and asks for more, theres a good chance that one of the two tells them to "take it or leave it" and let Tkachuk decide. Point being, if Tkachuk has made it clear to the Blues management that he wants to be in (hypothetically) Philly or nowhere at the deadline, then they are going to have to decide between keeping him or trading him, not decide between which team to trade him to. He's holding the cards because he probably has a pretty specific list of teams (or just 1 or 2) that he will green light.

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02-03-2009, 11:41 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by InPriceWeTrust View Post
He's old and unrestricted.

I couldnt imagine any team giving up very much for him.
see Feb 25 2007, basically 2 years younger, and was UFA...and brought in a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd + Metropolit

see June 26 2007, same scenario, but now his rights were traded back to STL for a 1st

...so expect Montreal to give at least 2 prospects (either picks or current players) for Keith

and if St Louis pulls this off once more, they are geniuses

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Old
02-03-2009, 11:44 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
He's not going to the "highest bidder" this time around.
He'll limit his list to strictly Cup contenders.

That said, that in no way "lowers" his value. If anything, it raises it. If you're a team like Boston or Montreal, who view themselves as legit threats for the Cup, would you really want a PP weapon like Tkachuk going to your competition? Of course not, and you'll pay a bit more to see that it doesn't happen.

We see this all the time and this year is no different. There will be a bidding war for Tkachuk, and it will be a much higher stake game than most PO rentals and the return will be higher than most of you want to think.
agreed, Davidson is a fokin' genius GM in my point of view...every trade he has made, every prospect brought in, every waiver pick up, has been very beneficial so far..and this team is quickly turning into a contender (on paper i mean)...by max 2 years this team is gonna be scary

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Old
02-03-2009, 12:09 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Neely06 View Post
We'll certainly see what happens, and you could be right. But my point is that if Tkachuck doesn't want to go one of the teams that is involved in this bidding war, then why would the other team up the ante that much? For example, if Boston and Montreal are the two teams aggressively bidding for his services and Blues management comes back to both and asks for more, theres a good chance that one of the two tells them to "take it or leave it" and let Tkachuk decide. Point being, if Tkachuk has made it clear to the Blues management that he wants to be in (hypothetically) Philly or nowhere at the deadline, then they are going to have to decide between keeping him or trading him, not decide between which team to trade him to. He's holding the cards because he probably has a pretty specific list of teams (or just 1 or 2) that he will green light.

That's not how the NTC works.
If Walt decides to waive the NTC; he has to list at least 6 teams that he would accept a trade to. THEN Pleau/JD can start making the calls and letting the bids come in. He can't come back after waiving the Clause and say "I changed my mind on this team".

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Old
02-03-2009, 12:12 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Halak and a 3rd is the very least the Blues would accept for Tkachuk. And anyone who thinks he's not worth that is deluding themselves.

P_B
I'm agreeing with this.

Halak & 2nd is more realistic.

or

PK Subban for Tkackhuk

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Old
02-03-2009, 12:32 PM
  #36
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From an outsider's perspective, why not this if it works cap wise

To Montreal - Tkachuk and Legace

To St. Louis - Halak

or

To Montreal - Tkachuk

To St. Louis - Yannick Wber and a 2009 3rd rounder.



The trading of Halak in the 1st proposal is strictly because it is a position of weakness for St. Louis and maybe Legace can be rejuvenated and be a solid veteran presence behind young Carey Price.

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02-03-2009, 12:37 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by AllTheKingsMen View Post
agreed, Davidson is a fokin' genius GM in my point of view...every trade he has made, every prospect brought in, every waiver pick up, has been very beneficial so far..and this team is quickly turning into a contender (on paper i mean)...by max 2 years this team is gonna be scary
Small correction here but Pleau is the GM so he should be getting some credit. It's easy to assume Davidson though since he's the spokesman of the group. Although it seems to be a collective effort there between Pleau, Davidson, Armstrong, MacInnis and Jarmo. It's a damned good feeling to have those guys in the front office.

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Old
02-03-2009, 12:43 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Neely06 View Post
We'll certainly see what happens, and you could be right. But my point is that if Tkachuck doesn't want to go one of the teams that is involved in this bidding war, then why would the other team up the ante that much? For example, if Boston and Montreal are the two teams aggressively bidding for his services and Blues management comes back to both and asks for more, theres a good chance that one of the two tells them to "take it or leave it" and let Tkachuk decide. Point being, if Tkachuk has made it clear to the Blues management that he wants to be in (hypothetically) Philly or nowhere at the deadline, then they are going to have to decide between keeping him or trading him, not decide between which team to trade him to. He's holding the cards because he probably has a pretty specific list of teams (or just 1 or 2) that he will green light.
That isnt exactly right. If the Bruins gave the Blues an offer, and JD/Pleau said they wanted more, but the Bruins gave them a "take it or leave it" option, the Blues could very well walk away without even asking Walt if he would accept the trade. JD has made it clear that he isnt going to move Tkachuk just to get some small pieces. Walt likes St. Louis, and would have no problem staying and finishing his career out here.

That leaves the Bruins with the option of letting Tkachuk finish out the year in St. Louis, or upping their offer if they feel Tkachuk is the piece that could put them over the top.

Point is, if we arent getting the value they are asking for, JD and Pleau wouldn't even ask Walt to leave somewhere that he wants to be.

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Old
02-03-2009, 03:15 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
From an outsider's perspective, why not this if it works cap wise

To Montreal - Tkachuk and Legace

To St. Louis - Halak

or

To Montreal - Tkachuk

To St. Louis - Yannick Wber and a 2009 3rd rounder.



The trading of Halak in the 1st proposal is strictly because it is a position of weakness for St. Louis and maybe Legace can be rejuvenated and be a solid veteran presence behind young Carey Price.

dream dream dream. it's good to read other team's fans can be as delusional as hab fans

gainey never says yes to either of those

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02-03-2009, 03:25 PM
  #40
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It's going to take a 1st rounder to aquire Tkachuk.

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02-03-2009, 03:26 PM
  #41
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dream dream dream. it's good to read other team's fans can be as delusional as hab fans

gainey never says yes to either of those
I love how you're so sure that you know what Bob Gainey will and won't do... who the hell are you, his mother?



P_B

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02-03-2009, 03:35 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
From an outsider's perspective, why not this if it works cap wise

To Montreal - Tkachuk and Legace
To St. Louis - Halak

or

To Montreal - Tkachuk
To St. Louis - Yannick Weber and a 2009 3rd rounder.

The trading of Halak in the 1st proposal is strictly because it is a position of weakness for St. Louis and maybe Legace can be rejuvenated and be a solid veteran presence behind young Carey Price.
Option # 1, please. I like Weber and a third-rounder, but I'm guessing that Tkachuk could fetch more than that, and Halak is worth more than Weber and a third-rounder, I think.

Goaltending isn't necessarily a position of weakness for the Blues, but it's certainly an area that they'd like to shore up long-term, and Halak would do that very nicely...

P_B

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02-03-2009, 03:56 PM
  #43
WreckItRask
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
That's not how the NTC works.
If Walt decides to waive the NTC; he has to list at least 6 teams that he would accept a trade to. THEN Pleau/JD can start making the calls and letting the bids come in. He can't come back after waiving the Clause and say "I changed my mind on this team".
Um, I believe a NTC gives a player the right to refuse any and all trades, unless it's a limited NTC. According to this website, he has no restrictions on his NTC, so he can refuse any trades he wants. He can certainly give them a list of 6 teams to negotiate with, but his NTC does give him the right to refuse any trade that he wants. That's the nature of the clause.

http://www.nhlscap.com/no_trade.htm

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Old
02-03-2009, 06:28 PM
  #44
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Think about it people. Remember Doug Weight? Refused to waive his NTC and was constantly reminded, he wasn't a part of this team anymore. Though hard to do now, Tkachuk could be handled the same way. We'll waive it.

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02-03-2009, 06:45 PM
  #45
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They wouldnt do that to Tkachuk. They haven't forgotten what how he helped the team with the Atlanta deal. Strickland has already talked about this. If he doesn't want to leave, he wont be pressured into it. But I think he would waive it to play for a cup.

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Old
02-03-2009, 07:12 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
I love how you're so sure that you know what Bob Gainey will and won't do... who the hell are you, his mother?



P_B


who the hell are you the talent evaluator? yes based on BG's trading history and 10 impending UFA's and his patience in rebuilding habs, and reluctance to deal prospects, he isn't giving anywhere near that up for an aging UFA who is going to jet back to the team he was traded from july 1st

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02-03-2009, 08:32 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by camarodude39 View Post
They wouldnt do that to Tkachuk. They haven't forgotten what how he helped the team with the Atlanta deal. Strickland has already talked about this. If he doesn't want to leave, he wont be pressured into it. But I think he would waive it to play for a cup.
This has been my point all along with Tkachuk. I think his selflessness a few years ago with the ATL thing has earned him the right to choose where he wants to go, and IF he wants to go. I think it's his decision, so long as there are at least decent offers out there.

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Old
02-04-2009, 04:53 AM
  #48
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Straight up for Halak.

We will send you Legace if you want him.

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Old
02-04-2009, 09:36 AM
  #49
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Tkachuk won't be traded if we keep winning. We're only 6 points out of the 8th spot in the Western Conference. If we are only 6 points back at the trade deadline, Tkachuk won't be moved.

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Old
02-04-2009, 11:24 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
So was Adam Foote; and he returned a 1st last year.

Tkachuk is still one of the 5 best PP players in the league.
Teams will pay more for him than you think.
I think you might be overstating his PP prowess on that one, kimzey but I can't figure there are any playoff bound teams that couldn't use him and even fewer who more importantly wouldn't want their opponent in the playoff to acquire him.

That said, I don't think Walts heart is in being traded this season and we won't see him move no matter where St. Louis is in the standings.

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