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Pitt/Ott

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Old
02-04-2009, 12:47 AM
  #1
Sensored
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Pitt/Ott

To Ottawa:

Ryan Whitney

To Pittsburg:

Filip Kuba
SJ 1st Round Pick
Chris Neil

Why Pittsburg does this

Pittsburg needs to get more defensive and gain some toughness in order to make the playoffs and they do this with Neil. Kuba is just a temporary replacement and Neil should be realitively easy to re-sign.

Why Ottawa does this

They need a puck-moving defensemen and there aren't many better than Whitney. Though he's slightly overpaid Ottawa would have to pay more for a defensemen on the free agent market.

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Old
02-04-2009, 12:57 AM
  #2
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If the Pens trade Whitney, it's likely to pick up a forward since they already have a surplus of defenseman that they want to get rid of. He's slightly overpaid? Look at what some defensemen around the league make, Ryan Whitney was getting paid based on his development, it averages to around 4m/yr but for a 25yr old that has put up 39, 59 and 40+ points in his first 3 seasons and then had his first major injury which was basically a deformity with his foot and missed a lot of camp time and the first few months, he's not over paid. He's on a very good deal actually.

Meszaros - 4m
Finger - 3.5m
Hannan - 4.5m

Just naming a few, Whitney is a 4m cap hit, you still think he's over paid? And he's not the best, he's likely one of the best probably available at the deadline after Jay Bouwmeester.

Change Neil and Kuba to Vermette and done deal. The team has Godard for a goon and Bis for the middle weight fighter after the HW in Godard, they don't need to add another fighter to the team. What the team needs is quality wingers that are very good skaters and are responsible 2-way players that have a scoring touch. Last time I checked, AV hasn't really been performing that well in Ottawa and could probably use a change of scenery. He's locked up for a few years and so is Whitney, that 1st might be over kill but the way AV has played, I would probably want that as well if I am Shero, it won't be a high 1st but whatever.


Last edited by vcx*: 02-04-2009 at 01:11 AM.
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Old
02-04-2009, 01:12 AM
  #3
Ragamuffin Gunner
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Whitney will NOT be traded for UFAs.

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Old
02-04-2009, 01:15 AM
  #4
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Originally Posted by ASV 27 View Post
Whitney will NOT be traded for UFAs.
Yeah even with a deal like SJS 1st + Vermette for Whitney, Vermette has another year left on his contract and could be extended another year or two at a decent price. Either way, that 1st + Vermette for Whitney would be fine by me, even if it's the 30th pick in the 1st round, it'd at least get Shero Werek early in a very deep draft and he needs to restock the prospect pool with a lot of solid wingers.

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Old
02-04-2009, 01:53 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by vcx View Post
Yeah even with a deal like SJS 1st + Vermette for Whitney, Vermette has another year left on his contract and could be extended another year or two at a decent price. Either way, that 1st + Vermette for Whitney would be fine by me, even if it's the 30th pick in the 1st round, it'd at least get Shero Werek early in a very deep draft and he needs to restock the prospect pool with a lot of solid wingers.
I'd be down with Vermette and a 1st for Whitney. Pittsburgh seems well stocked with offensive D with Goligoski, Letang, and with Gonchar coming back soon enough. They just don't have any decent wingers beyond Sykora. Vermette has played much better in 2009 and could be decent if playing with an elite forward. On Ottawa he's constantly played with guys below his skill level (Fisher, Kelly, Winchester) and hasn't been able to produce on a consistent basis.

He's also pretty cheap at 2.75 and his upside is somewhere in the 55-70 point range with 30 goals not being out of the question.

Whitney is exactly what the Sens need and 4.0 million is very cheap for what he does. Very few players make less and bring a similar level of offense.

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:00 AM
  #6
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Maybe the value is there. At least considering Whitney's current play.
But I am not on board with the OP because those are UFA's and we are not a playoff team this year and will benefit more from not making it and being a seller ourselves than spending assets of ignoring that we have a lost season going with a muppet in charge and deep holes on the roster - which Chris Neil does very little to solve.

The Vermette trade.... also no. Vermette has stagnated big time IMO at a time where he should have gone from strength to strenght. He's great at faceoffs, killing penalties and is a great physical speciment, but I question his hockey IQ, and for a third line center, we can get guys who deliver in that role for less than his salary.
The SJ 1st rounder.... we need to get players who can contribute soon, because we ought to be a real contender again starting next season. Its hard to think a 27-30 pick is going to do that for us.
If it was Ottawa's pick... sign me up .

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Old
02-04-2009, 08:18 AM
  #7
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In theory Neil could get Ottawa a second and Kuba a first. 2 firsts and a 2nd for Whitney? Pass.

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Old
02-04-2009, 08:54 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vcx View Post
If the Pens trade Whitney, it's likely to pick up a forward since they already have a surplus of defenseman that they want to get rid of. He's slightly overpaid? Look at what some defensemen around the league make, Ryan Whitney was getting paid based on his development, it averages to around 4m/yr but for a 25yr old that has put up 39, 59 and 40+ points in his first 3 seasons and then had his first major injury which was basically a deformity with his foot and missed a lot of camp time and the first few months, he's not over paid. He's on a very good deal actually.

Meszaros - 4m
Finger - 3.5m
Hannan - 4.5m

Just naming a few, Whitney is a 4m cap hit, you still think he's over paid? And he's not the best, he's likely one of the best probably available at the deadline after Jay Bouwmeester.

Change Neil and Kuba to Vermette and done deal. The team has Godard for a goon and Bis for the middle weight fighter after the HW in Godard, they don't need to add another fighter to the team. What the team needs is quality wingers that are very good skaters and are responsible 2-way players that have a scoring touch. Last time I checked, AV hasn't really been performing that well in Ottawa and could probably use a change of scenery. He's locked up for a few years and so is Whitney, that 1st might be over kill but the way AV has played, I would probably want that as well if I am Shero, it won't be a high 1st but whatever.
I don't agree that the pens need wingers, what they need is a defensive defenseman. Our goals against are brutal, look at the last few games.....blew a lead late against NJ, let in 5 goals against T.O and then let in 4 against the habs. This tema is brutal defensively. Although I would do vermette and a 1st, that would be awesome. We need volchenkov, what do we need to add to get him?

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Old
02-04-2009, 09:09 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiphopopotamus View Post
In theory Neil could get Ottawa a second and Kuba a first. 2 firsts and a 2nd for Whitney? Pass.
That is way off, no one is going to give a 2nd for neil and a 1st for kuba. maybe 3rd for neil and a 2nd for kuba imo.

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Old
02-04-2009, 09:11 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by azntam View Post
That is way off, no one is going to give a 2nd for neil and a 1st for kuba. maybe 3rd for neil and a 2nd for kuba imo.
Prepare to be very surprised on trade deadline day.

With that said, Neil isn't what brings Pittsburgh over the top, so I don't see the Pens doing this. They can get better/longer term assets if they decide to deal Whitney.

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Old
02-04-2009, 09:18 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiphopopotamus View Post
In theory Neil could get Ottawa a second and Kuba a first. 2 firsts and a 2nd for Whitney? Pass.
Kuba will not bring a first round pick. Neil could bring at most a 2nd just because he is a type of player that is always in demand.

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Old
02-04-2009, 09:20 AM
  #12
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Pittsburg, California?

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Old
02-04-2009, 09:26 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Clancy View Post
Prepare to be very surprised on trade deadline day.

With that said, Neil isn't what brings Pittsburgh over the top, so I don't see the Pens doing this. They can get better/longer term assets if they decide to deal Whitney.
why? cz the value is even lower? they are both ufa's and they are not big impact players....they will be a minor piece to the success of a contender. You can dream all u want and believe thats what the sens will get but I dont think its gonna happen. We will wait and see, but Atlanta isnt in the playoff race so waddell cant make a stupid trade.

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Old
02-04-2009, 09:29 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by azntam View Post
why? cz the value is even lower? they are both ufa's and they are not big impact players....they will be a minor piece to the success of a contender. You can dream all u want and believe thats what the sens will get but I dont think its gonna happen. We will wait and see, but Atlanta isnt in the playoff race so waddell cant make a stupid trade.
Craig Rivet

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Old
02-04-2009, 09:42 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azntam View Post
That is way off, no one is going to give a 2nd for neil and a 1st for kuba. maybe 3rd for neil and a 2nd for kuba imo.
Have you checked out the history on trade deadline day? If you think that Neil and Kuba won't fetch that kind of return, check out some of these deals before you officially formulate an opinion.

- Brad Stuart for 2nd rd pick, 2008/4th rd pick, 2010
- Hal Gill for a 2nd and a 5th rd round pick
- J. Vandemeer for a 3rd rd pick
- Brain Sutherby for a 2nd rd pick
- B. Sopel for a 2nd and 4th rd pick
- Smolinski for a 2nd rd pick
- R. Zednik for a 2nd rd pick

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Old
02-04-2009, 09:47 AM
  #16
azntam
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Originally Posted by OgieOglethorpe View Post
Have you checked out the history on trade deadline day? If you think that Neil and Kuba won't fetch that kind of return, check out some of these deals before you officially formulate an opinion.

- Brad Stuart for 2nd rd pick, 2008/4th rd pick, 2010
- Hal Gill for a 2nd and a 5th rd round pick
- J. Vandemeer for a 3rd rd pick
- Brain Sutherby for a 2nd rd pick
- B. Sopel for a 2nd and 4th rd pick
- Smolinski for a 2nd rd pick
- R. Zednik for a 2nd rd pick
ok......i'm waiting to see where the first rounder is....

brad stuart was a steal by the way, i was scratching my head when pit made the deal for gill and then they announced the stuart deal, i was like wtf?! why didnt the pens get stuart. stuart>kuba

thanks for backing me up with some facts.
2nd for neil may be closer tho, u might have got me there....i would not give a 2nd for neil, but i'm not a gm.....

craig rivet is an interesting e.g. was he ufa at the time? i don't remember, but either way he brings a whole new element, sabres instantly made him captain as soon as he got there showing that he is a great leader. Sharks needed some leadership going into the playoffs that year but it still wasnt enough.

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Old
02-04-2009, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by azntam View Post
craig rivet is an interesting e.g. was he ufa at the time? i don't remember, but either way he brings a whole new element, sabres instantly made him captain as soon as he got there showing that he is a great leader. Sharks needed some leadership going into the playoffs that year but it still wasnt enough.
Craig Rivet, as a pending UFA, returned a first round pick and Josh Gorges. Bryan Burke was quoted saying he was surprised Gainey didn't talk to him about the deal, he felt he could have offered better.

Filip Kuba isn't as physical as Rivet, but he's better offensively. He's also been captain of the Minnesota Wild when they advanced to the Western conference finals.

Kuba will return a first round pick.

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02-04-2009, 09:55 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by azntam View Post
ok......i'm waiting to see where the first rounder is....

brad stuart was a steal by the way, i was scratching my head when pit made the deal for gill and then they announced the stuart deal, i was like wtf?! why didnt the pens get stuart. stuart>kuba

thanks for backing me up with some facts.
2nd for neil may be closer tho, u might have got me there....i would not give a 2nd for neil, but i'm not a gm.....

craig rivet is an interesting e.g. was he ufa at the time? i don't remember, but either way he brings a whole new element, sabres instantly made him captain as soon as he got there showing that he is a great leader. Sharks needed some leadership going into the playoffs that year but it still wasnt enough.
lol, all of the defenseman I mentioned (maybe Stuart aside) are not as good as Kuba. If they are worthy of 2nd and 3rd round picks, wouldn't that mean that Kuba deserves a little more in return? That was the point I was making...

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Old
02-04-2009, 10:09 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by King Clancy View Post
Craig Rivet, as a pending UFA, returned a first round pick and Josh Gorges. Bryan Burke was quoted saying he was surprised Gainey didn't talk to him about the deal, he felt he could have offered better.

Filip Kuba isn't as physical as Rivet, but he's better offensively. He's also been captain of the Minnesota Wild when they advanced to the Western conference finals.

Kuba will return a first round pick.
last year 1st rounders for dmen were cambell and foote, everyone else was had for a 2nd and something else.....kuba is not in cambell or foote category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OgieOglethorpe View Post
lol, all of the defenseman I mentioned (maybe Stuart aside) are not as good as Kuba. If they are worthy of 2nd and 3rd round picks, wouldn't that mean that Kuba deserves a little more in return? That was the point I was making...
so....that means we can cast the stuart e.g. out the window?

I will counter that since we both agree that stuart is better than kuba....he will return less.

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02-04-2009, 10:25 AM
  #20
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well it all depends on the teams' needs. a ot can happen till the deadline....just imagine that for example mike green gets injured...washington will probably give up their first to get the best pp-qb available...kuba will be among the nominees

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02-04-2009, 10:30 AM
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last year 1st rounders for dmen were cambell and foote, everyone else was had for a 2nd and something else.....kuba is not in cambell or foote category.
Ok, so who is available that is?

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Old
02-04-2009, 10:43 AM
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last year 1st rounders for dmen were cambell and foote, everyone else was had for a 2nd and something else.....kuba is not in cambell or foote category.
Cambell went for a 1st and Bernier, who at the time was still regarded as a very promising prospect and was a former 1st rounder himself. So, Campbell for 2 firsts.

A declining Foote still returned a first rounder, even though he basically forced the Blue Jackets' hand by forcing the trade to the Avalanche. It's not like there was a bidding war for his services:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...E.html?sid=101

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Old
02-04-2009, 10:54 AM
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If the Pens trade Whitney, it's likely to pick up a forward since they already have a surplus of defenseman that they want to get rid of. He's slightly overpaid? Look at what some defensemen around the league make, Ryan Whitney was getting paid based on his development, it averages to around 4m/yr but for a 25yr old that has put up 39, 59 and 40+ points in his first 3 seasons and then had his first major injury which was basically a deformity with his foot and missed a lot of camp time and the first few months, he's not over paid. He's on a very good deal actually.

Meszaros - 4m
Finger - 3.5m
Hannan - 4.5m

Just naming a few, Whitney is a 4m cap hit, you still think he's over paid? And he's not the best, he's likely one of the best probably available at the deadline after Jay Bouwmeester.

Change Neil and Kuba to Vermette and done deal. The team has Godard for a goon and Bis for the middle weight fighter after the HW in Godard, they don't need to add another fighter to the team. What the team needs is quality wingers that are very good skaters and are responsible 2-way players that have a scoring touch. Last time I checked, AV hasn't really been performing that well in Ottawa and could probably use a change of scenery. He's locked up for a few years and so is Whitney, that 1st might be over kill but the way AV has played, I would probably want that as well if I am Shero, it won't be a high 1st but whatever.
I agree with most of this post. Is Whitney really available though? In other words, is he being shopped? He is less available than Kaberle and Kaberle>Whitney. But anyways..

Quote:
Originally Posted by azntam View Post
I don't agree that the pens need wingers, what they need is a defensive defenseman. Our goals against are brutal, look at the last few games.....blew a lead late against NJ, let in 5 goals against T.O and then let in 4 against the habs. This tema is brutal defensively. Although I would do vermette and a 1st, that would be awesome. We need volchenkov, what do we need to add to get him?
Here's a thought, what about Volchenkov for Whitney straight up? What would Sens and Pens fans think of this?

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Old
02-04-2009, 12:19 PM
  #24
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Ok, so who is available that is?
Jay Bouwmeester

Tomas Kaberle

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Old
02-04-2009, 12:30 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Kuba will not bring a first round pick. Neil could bring at most a 2nd just because he is a type of player that is always in demand.
But Rivet got a first and georges

Sopel got a 2nd and a 4th

Kuba will get a first.

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