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Trends of the 2003 draft and fans' patience

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:25 PM
  #1
Andy
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Trends of the 2003 draft and fans' patience

O.K, I keep reading post after post on the board of people complaining on how we took Andrei Kostitsyn over guys like Carter,Brown Richards, Getzlaf, Perry and Parise.

Well I've noticed a trend on the 2003 draft among these forwards...

...each of the forwards mentioned above (aside Parise and Carter it's his fourth year) had 2 average nhl seasons and then exploded in their third years, and they all have similar stats to the Andrei, and they all had consistency issues as well in their first two years like Andrei.

Here are some stats to back it up

Getzlaf G A Pts
Year 1 14 25 29
Year 2 25 33 58
Year 3 24 58 82

Perry G A Pts
Year 1 13 12 25(56 games)
Year 2 17 27 44
Year 3 29 25 54

Richards G A Pts
Year 1 11 23 34
Year 2 10 22 33 (59 games)
Year 3 28 47 75

Carter G A Pts
Year 1 23 19 42
Year 2 14 23 37(62 games)
Year 3 29 24 53
year 4 53 35 88 (on pace for)

Brown G A Pts
Year 1 14 14 28
Year 2 17 29 46
Year 3 33 27 60

Andrei G A Pts
Year 1 1 10 11(22 games)
Year 2 26 27 53
Year 3 18 13 31....on pace for 29 22 51(over 78 games)....32 23 55 over 82 games(This one is for P1x44r, so maybe it'll be a little clearer to him)

Remember this is Andrei's second full season in the nhl and he's still young, I think we should just show a little more patience with him considering the trend so far that came out of such a great draft year. Andrei has amazing talent and I still think he's learning just like those forwards above were learning...So let's relax before we start saying he was a wasted pick. Remember even Philli fans last year wouldn't have mind if they had gotten rid of Carter and look at him now.

BTW Andrei has 18 points in his last 18 games.


Last edited by Andy: 02-04-2009 at 05:08 PM.
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Old
02-04-2009, 03:45 PM
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Go Habs Go
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As much as I would hope that you're right, I seriously doubt he can ever become as good as a Getzlaf or a Parise.

Getzlaf can carry a team on his shoulder, provide leadership, grit, a true leader. I don't think AK can ever be that player. Points isn't everything.

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:49 PM
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Kimota
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Getzlav is this generation's Cam Neely. Andrei right now is this generation's...Kljell Dahlin.

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:50 PM
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Andrei could turn out to be very similar to a player like Vanek and yes, I'm willing to give him a bit more time.

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02-04-2009, 03:51 PM
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The only way you should compare Kostitsyn and Getzlaf is by bald spots.

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02-04-2009, 03:51 PM
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Carter last season didn't shoot. That's an awful lot similar to Andrei. This year, Carter was really pressed to shoot more. And look at the results. Andrei just has to get it into his head.

So aside from Getzlaf and Parise, Andrei could still be quite the catch in that draft. It,s still too early to tell, even if its been more than 5 years now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Getzlav is this generation's Cam Neely. Andrei right now is this generation's...Kljell Dahlin.
Oh come on!!!

No wonder you think Lats has better hands than MaxPac.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 02-05-2009 at 02:06 AM.
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Old
02-04-2009, 03:55 PM
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I still think Andrei has the potential to become a consistent 35-40 goal scorer. I obviously don't think he's as good as Getzlaf or some of the other players mentionned, but I don't think he was really that bad of a choice at #10. Hell, we could have drafted Hugh Jessiman like the Rangers at #12..ouch!

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:57 PM
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Andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Carter last season didn't shoot. That's an awful lot similar to Andrei. This year, Carter was really pressed to shoot more. And look at the results. Andrei just has to get it into his head.

So aside from Getzlaf and Parise, Andrei could still be quite the catch in that draft. It,s still too early to tell, even if its been more than 5 years now.
Well I did say Parise aside in my OP...I guess I should have included Getzlaf aswell. Look the point is, last year, everyone knew Carter was a very good player, but I don't think anyone would have expected him to do what he'd be doing this year, not even me and I am a huge Jeff Carter fan! I never thought he would be a 50 90 point guy who can carry a team, I just though he would have been a good 1b center.

It takes time for people to find their groove in the nhl, especially Europeans. For the guy above who said Andrei couldn't carry a team, well I disagree with that because imo aside from a few bad games the last few weeks he along with guys like Lappiere and Markov have been carrying this team.

I just don't understand how people can say that a 24 year old after 2 nhl seasons will not be able to carry a team and constantly trashing on him. Carter had consistency issues, Richards had consistency issues, until last year 75% of people didn't know who Dustin Brown was. I just think it's way too early to write off Andrei.

Lappiere is part of that 2003 draft as well and look how far he has come along after 3 years, the guy is still learning and still improving and their was times to last year where Lappiere played lazy, he even got sent down because of it!

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Old
02-04-2009, 04:02 PM
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Habs Icing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Oh come on!!!

No wonder you think Lats has better hands than MaxPac.
When he said that he meant better hands to clutch a big mac, fries and a poutine - all at the same time.

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02-04-2009, 04:05 PM
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Andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Oh come on!!!

No wonder you think Lats has better hands than MaxPac.
Edited my post because I don't want to start a fight.


Last edited by Andy: 02-04-2009 at 04:13 PM.
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02-04-2009, 04:09 PM
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muzion
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Give AK46 a real center who can control the play and he will put up great numbers. Just look at how he played with Koivu earlier this season. Time will tell if he can carry a team, but our franchise player is between the pipes anyway.

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02-04-2009, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Habs Go View Post
As much as I would hope that you're right, I seriously doubt he can ever become as good as a Getzlaf or a Parise.

Getzlaf can carry a team on his shoulder, provide leadership, grit, a true leader. I don't think AK can ever be that player. Points isn't everything.
+1 , but I don't think andrei is a bad pick ... he needs time ...

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Old
02-04-2009, 04:24 PM
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When Andrei is on, he's as good as any of those players drafted. The problem is consistency.

But everyone needs to remember, technically this is his 2nd full year in the league. Before last year he only played a handful of games (34 total in two years). Whereas this is the 4th year for Parise, Carter and Brown.

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Old
02-04-2009, 04:42 PM
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I'm not saying that AK can never put up a lot of points or be a great player. Actually he probably will be a point/game player soon enough. What I'm saying is that I've never seen him take it upon himself to turn a game around. When the chips are down, when the team is in big trouble, generally the only guy we have that can find a way to turn it around is Koivu and thats a big reason of why we love him so much even though he has never put up 100 pts seasons. The ability to dig deep, to find ways to win games when things look hopeless...unfortunately I don't see these qualities in AK. Perhaps its just a matter of maturity and he will develop this side of him eventually but so far he hasn't shown it.

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Old
02-04-2009, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
For the guy above who said Andrei couldn't carry a team, well I disagree with that because imo aside from a few bad games the last few weeks he along with guys like Lappiere and Markov have been carrying this team.
You really believe Andrei has been carrying this team this season? Damn, now I've heard everything!


P.S. Another thing I just noticed. Andrei is the only player in the list you've mentioned who on pace to regress in his third year....

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Old
02-04-2009, 04:51 PM
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Ross MacLochness
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Oh another 2003 draft thread. That's lovely. This is where the real winners come out...



We've got a 24 year-old 30-35 goal scorer



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Old
02-04-2009, 04:53 PM
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Andy
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Originally Posted by P1x44r View Post
You really believe Andrei has been carrying this team this season? Damn, now I've heard everything!


P.S. Another thing I just noticed. Andrei is the only player in the list you've mentioned who on pace to regress in his third year....
Wow, thanks for twisting my words, being like 7th in the nhl with the most points since x-mas break...but of course I must not know what I'm talking about. Second he's on pace for less points because he's played less games because of injuries, so in an 82 game season he would be on pace for 32 goals and 55 points, yes a real regression. Your attempt to make me look stupid was useless, but hey atleast you tried... A+ for effort. In his first 28 games he had 12 points and 6 goals, in his last 18 games he has 18 points and 12 goals...but I'm just talking out my ass right?


Last edited by Andy: 02-04-2009 at 05:09 PM.
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Old
02-04-2009, 05:15 PM
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Wow, thanks for twisting my words, being like 7th in the nhl with the most points since x-mas break...
Build you sentences correctly then as your original statement could be interpreted in two different ways. I heard punctuation also helps.

I agree, he's been good since around the Christmas break.

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Old
02-04-2009, 05:19 PM
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Andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P1x44r View Post
Build you sentences correctly then as your original statement could be interpreted in two different ways. I heard punctuation also helps.
Wow, were you always this condescending? Or are you just mad that you had nothing else better to say? Thanks for not responding to the issue though.

edit: Ok...you edited your post, yes he has been good since x-mas and that's what I refer to when I said he's been on of the players who's been "carrying" this team. You can think of carrying in anyway you want.


Last edited by Andy: 02-04-2009 at 05:26 PM.
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Old
02-04-2009, 05:30 PM
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Em Ancien
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Habs Go View Post
I'm not saying that AK can never put up a lot of points or be a great player. Actually he probably will be a point/game player soon enough. What I'm saying is that I've never seen him take it upon himself to turn a game around. When the chips are down, when the team is in big trouble, generally the only guy we have that can find a way to turn it around is Koivu and thats a big reason of why we love him so much even though he has never put up 100 pts seasons. The ability to dig deep, to find ways to win games when things look hopeless...unfortunately I don't see these qualities in AK. Perhaps its just a matter of maturity and he will develop this side of him eventually but so far he hasn't shown it.
Carbo has absolutely no confidence in the guy.

Give him the offensive leader role already. He's shown he can get the points with 15 minute games.

Look at Getzlaf, Parise, Carter, Richards. They got their stat bump once the guys in front of them were gone (Getzlaf-McDonald, Parise-Gomez [huge stat bump this year], Carter/Richards-Forsberg).

He'll probably get the ice time and the production pressure next year, but he should already be our offensive go-to guy, especially with the year Kovy is having.

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02-04-2009, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
Carbo has absolutely no confidence in the guy.

Give him the offensive leader role already. He's shown he can get the points with 15 minute games.

Look at Getzlaf, Parise, Carter, Richards. They got their stat bump once the guys in front of them were gone (Getzlaf-McDonald, Parise-Gomez [huge stat bump this year], Carter/Richards-Forsberg).

He'll probably get the ice time and the production pressure next year, but he should already be our offensive go-to guy, especially with the year Kovy is having.
Couldn't agree more. Once he becomes a go-to guy, I expect him to become more consistent offensively....oh, and get him away from Kovy.

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02-04-2009, 05:41 PM
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The only way you should compare Kostitsyn and Getzlaf is by bald spots.
I think we have a winner! Andrei Kostitsyn is and will be a very good player in his own right, but there will always be the "what ifs" since we had the opportunity to draft guys like Getzlaf, Parise, Richards, who are not only great talents but are already leaders on their respective teams.

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02-04-2009, 05:44 PM
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I think we have a winner! Andrei Kostitsyn is and will be a very good player in his own right, but there will always be the "what ifs" since we had the opportunity to draft guys like Getzlaf, Parise, Richards, who are not only great talents but are already leaders on their respective teams.
To be fair, they didn't actually have to learn English and go halfway around the world.

He might never grow into a great leader, but I expect him to be our go-to guy for years to come.

While it's not the ra-ra type, it's a form of leadership. Being the guy people count on to lead the O.

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02-04-2009, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
To be fair, they didn't actually have to learn English and go halfway around the world.

He might never grow into a great leader, but I expect him to be our go-to guy for years to come.

While it's not the ra-ra type, it's a form of leadership. Being the guy people count on to lead the O.
I agree he'll probably be our go-to-guy very soon, and that counts for a lot. Andrei's seems like a quiet guy, nothing wrong with that. But those other guys i mentionned bring leadership in the form of communication and stepping up in the room, and i think thats pretty valuable. Obviously he's not from here, so he's at a disadvantage...

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02-04-2009, 05:56 PM
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Em Ancien
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Originally Posted by habsdude View Post
I agree he'll probably be our go-to-guy very soon, and that counts for a lot. Andrei's seems like a quiet guy, nothing wrong with that. But those other guys i mentionned bring leadership in the form of communication and stepping up in the room, and i think thats pretty valuable. Obviously he's not from here, so he's at a disadvantage...
I don't think it's a real problem (not implying that you're saying it is), as long as the group is tight and there are other leaders.

I don't think Fedorov was the great leader in the lockerroom of the Wings during the back-to-back cups, yet he was one of the most skilled players and most productive of the group.

I'm not comparing, but I don't really mind his relative shyness. As long as he's out there putting up points and trying to help the team win, I'll be delighted.

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