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Old
02-04-2009, 02:20 PM
  #51
Dominic Lavoie
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What a bunch of morons on this board! The Senators (including Mr. Spezza) were SHUT OUT last night by my Kings. You have no offense, no defense, no prospects...nothing. You are not dealing from a position of strength here. If you want to trade a very good player who is lost in his own end you need to expect a little less in return.

Bernier is a very good goaltending prospect who is good enough to play in the NHL right now but is stuck playing for a VERY YOUNG farm team in Manchester. Next to Rask and Markstrom he is the best goaltending prospect not in the NHL. I would trade him for Spezza because we have Quick, Zatkoff and Martin Jones in the system.

Moller is going to be a very good wing or center. He is good on the power play, is gritty and oozes character. He is the type of player that would help turn around the Senators and leads by example. He was the Captain of the Swedish WJC team.

Hickey will be a second pairing defenseman for a ridiculously deep team like the Kings but could be a top pair guy for most defenses. He is also a captain, is incredibly competitive, a great skater and passer and has a good shot. He is a bit smallish but is strong for his size and is gritty. He fights and stands up for his teammates when needed.

If the Senators are going to miss the playoffs this would be a very good package of three players who are can't miss NHL players with entry level contracts. The Senators could be active in free agency over the summer and start next season with a legitimate chance at getting back into the playoffs while bringing in three winning young players. Hickey has two WJC Golds, Bernier has one and a Q championship, Moller is a good young player with two silver medals.

If you think this is a bad package than you are typical entitled Canadian fans who have no concept of how to build a team except in a fantasy league. Bernier should be better than Mason in CBJ, Moller will center your 2nd line, Hickey will play on your top D pairing in two years and you'll suck enough to maybe get Tavares to take Spezza's place as your #1 center.

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:21 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
How does that come into play?
yeah i would leave picks out of it,
Sully, Moller, Hickey, and 2nd is steep and would be by far the most i would go if i was GM (and i would have to think long and hard before the handshake).

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:21 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
I would hate to part with Sully as he'll easily be a ppg guy. I love the way he darts in and out but in order to get a Spezza, you got to give up a lot.

Having said that, I would tweaked the final offer and switch our first for Ottawa's first.

So the final offer would look like this:

Ottawa gets:

Sully
Hickey
Moeller
Kings first 09
Kings second 09

LA gets:

Spezza
Ottawas first 09

On a side note, I don't know if anyone else has checked it out or not but Spezza's due to make $8 mil a season for the next 6 or 7 yrs.
There's no reason for Ottawa to also trade its first-round pick in this deal. The Kings, as a result, likely would get the two best players in the deal, especially if the Sens' draft pick ends up in the top two. The Kings would then easily win this trade while Ottawa gets shafted badly. And if the Kings make the playoffs, this deal looks even worse for Ottawa. So, Ottawa's first-round pick is off limits unless LA wants to part with Doughty, which they obviously won't do.

IMO, the best trade scenario for Ottawa would be O'Sullivan, Johnson, and LA's first-round pick. But if LA doesn't want to part with Johnson or its first-round pick, then Moller, Hickey, and their 2nd-round pick should be adequate replacements.

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:22 PM
  #54
Joey Moss
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Originally Posted by Stassino View Post
It doesn't serve any of Ottawas needs, we already have a blue chip puck moving prospect in Erik Karlson who is better then Hickey, we already have a young goaltender better then Bernier by the name of Brian Elliot and we'd have no #1 center.. Are you 15? This is some really really stupid stuff..
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Originally Posted by Stassino View Post
Kopitar is nothing compared to Spezza regardless of how many L.A Kings fans you have say otherwise.. I'm a Flames fan.. not a sens fan in the least.. just live here..

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:23 PM
  #55
slovenija
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Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
let me guess, its in the Kings forum?

Nope it was right here on HF; Kopi won BTW

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:24 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
There's no reason for Ottawa to also trade its first-round pick in this deal. The Kings, as a result, likely would get the two best players in the deal, especially if the Sens' draft pick ends up in the top two. The Kings would then easily win this trade while Ottawa gets shafted badly. And if the Kings make the playoffs, this deal looks even worse for Ottawa. So, Ottawa's first-round pick is off limits unless LA wants to part with Doughty, which they obviously won't do.

IMO, the best trade scenario for Ottawa would be O'Sullivan, Johnson, and LA's first-round pick. But if LA doesn't want to part with Johnson or its first-round pick, then Moller, Hickey, and their 2nd-round pick should be adequate replacements.
yeah Johnson will not go anywhere.

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:25 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT8888 View Post
yeah i would leave picks out of it,
Sully, Moller, Hickey, and 2nd is steep and would be by far the most i would go if i was GM (and i would have to think long and hard before the handshake).
No, you're missing the point. By exchanging first picks, kings have a better chance of picking higher in the draft as we would retain Ottawa's pick.

Chances are Ottawa's going to finish lower in the final standings than the kings thus having a higher pick in the 09 draft which would be ours upon exchange.

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:28 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
No, you're missing the point. By exchanging first picks, kings have a better chance of picking higher in the draft as we would retain Ottawa's pick.

Chances are Ottawa's going to finish lower in the final standings than the kings thus having a higher pick in the 09 draft which would be ours upon exchange.
My point is that Ott knows this and would not risk switching pick when they could be in the running for Hedman or Taverse.
As a kings fan sure i would take it but i am tell you they wont.

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:29 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
No, you're missing the point. By exchanging first picks, kings have a better chance of picking higher in the draft as we would retain Ottawa's pick.

Chances are Ottawa's going to finish lower in the final standings than the kings thus having a higher pick in the 09 draft which would be ours upon exchange.
JT888 is saying that asking for Ottawa's first-round pick would be a deal breaker for Ottawa. Because Ottawa's first-round pick will be higher than LA's and with LA possibly making the playoffs after acquiring Spezza, the deal would significantly favour the Kings. There's no reason for the Sens to swap first-round picks with the Kings this year. Maybe in the future, but not this year.

Just take a moment to think about what you proposed. If Ottawa wins the lottery or has the #2 overall pick while LA sneaks into the playoffs, the trade would look like:

Spezza and Tavares / Hedman for O'Sullivan, Hickey, Moller, 15th or 16th pick in the draft, and a 2nd-round pick.

That's a terrible deal for Ottawa, and no way would Bryan Murray risk the chance of landing either Tavares or Hedman.

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:30 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
I would hate to part with Sully as he'll easily be a ppg guy. I love the way he darts in and out but in order to get a Spezza, you got to give up a lot.

Having said that, I would tweaked the final offer and switch our first for Ottawa's first.

So the final offer would look like this:

Ottawa gets:

Sully
Hickey
Moeller
Kings first 09
Kings second 09

LA gets:

Spezza
Ottawas first 09

On a side note, I don't know if anyone else has checked it out or not but Spezza's due to make $8 mil a season for the next 6 or 7 yrs.

Ottawa's first is not being included no matter what the return. Take out all the picks.

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:31 PM
  #61
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The original proposal (on the surface) isn't too bad value-wise but it doesn't work for LA. They are not going to give up some young promising (and cheap) prospects for another expensive center that is primarily a passer. Kings don't have wingers that can hit the net so what good is another top notch passing center?

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:31 PM
  #62
The Reg Season SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Lavoie View Post
What a bunch of morons on this board! The Senators (including Mr. Spezza) were SHUT OUT last night by my Kings. You have no offense, no defense, no prospects...nothing. You are not dealing from a position of strength here. If you want to trade a very good player who is lost in his own end you need to expect a little less in return.
Did you watch the game? Right, hitting posts and having a Vezina performance from a nobody goaltender is 'shut out'.

I like this, a proven performer having 1 bad season vs. Potential this, potential that, potential that must be automatically realized because this is HFBoards.

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:32 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by HookKing View Post
The original proposal (on the surface) isn't too bad value-wise but it doesn't work for LA. They are not going to give up some young promising (and cheap) prospects for another expensive center that is primarily a passer. Kings don't have wingers that can hit the net so what good is another top notch passing center?
Well, Spezza is a two-time 30-goal scorer and is on pace to score 30 goals again. So, he's not just a one-dimensional playmaker a la Craig Janney.

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:34 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT8888 View Post
My point is that Ott knows this and would not risk switching pick when they could be in the running for Hedman or Taverse.
As a kings fan sure i would take it but i am tell you they wont.
I'm a bit concerned with Spezza and his huge contract. Heck, we'll be adding more than $4 mil in the exchange of players.

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:48 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
I'm a bit concerned with Spezza and his huge contract. Heck, we'll be adding more than $4 mil in the exchange of players.
Its alot of money, but we would never need a number or 2 center in 7 years,
we also should be getting a talented winger with our 1st this year in the 1st round to make up for losing Moller. Hickey would hurt but we have a good young d depth, same with the goalies.
Sign Frolov long term and add Spezza and you got 2 killer lines for a long time. All just entering their prime

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:10 PM
  #66
Black1963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT8888 View Post
Brown - Spezza - Sully
Frolov- Kopitar - Simmonds

would be a 1a 1b line situation, and i think we would make the playoffs with that lineup
Need someone to replace Sully as he's part of this deal. Perhaps Purcell would be ready.

I like Simmie but I don't think he's quite 2nd line material just yet perhaps in a few more years imo.

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:25 PM
  #67
mcphllp
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Originally Posted by Dominic Lavoie View Post
What a bunch of morons on this board! The Senators (including Mr. Spezza) were SHUT OUT last night by my Kings. You have no offense, no defense, no prospects...nothing. You are not dealing from a position of strength here. If you want to trade a very good player who is lost in his own end you need to expect a little less in return.

Bernier is a very good goaltending prospect who is good enough to play in the NHL right now but is stuck playing for a VERY YOUNG farm team in Manchester. Next to Rask and Markstrom he is the best goaltending prospect not in the NHL. I would trade him for Spezza because we have Quick, Zatkoff and Martin Jones in the system.

Moller is going to be a very good wing or center. He is good on the power play, is gritty and oozes character. He is the type of player that would help turn around the Senators and leads by example. He was the Captain of the Swedish WJC team.

Hickey will be a second pairing defenseman for a ridiculously deep team like the Kings but could be a top pair guy for most defenses. He is also a captain, is incredibly competitive, a great skater and passer and has a good shot. He is a bit smallish but is strong for his size and is gritty. He fights and stands up for his teammates when needed.

If the Senators are going to miss the playoffs this would be a very good package of three players who are can't miss NHL players with entry level contracts. The Senators could be active in free agency over the summer and start next season with a legitimate chance at getting back into the playoffs while bringing in three winning young players. Hickey has two WJC Golds, Bernier has one and a Q championship, Moller is a good young player with two silver medals.

If you think this is a bad package than you are typical entitled Canadian fans who have no concept of how to build a team except in a fantasy league. Bernier should be better than Mason in CBJ, Moller will center your 2nd line, Hickey will play on your top D pairing in two years and you'll suck enough to maybe get Tavares to take Spezza's place as your #1 center.

See how all of this pans out in the next few years, but it looks like you have it all figured out dont you. For the record I said I liked it, but maybe a little more from the kings, not much. Your rant is hilarious though.

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:26 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by slovenija View Post
Nope it was right here on HF; Kopi won BTW
wheres the link? was it in the kings part of HF?

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:27 PM
  #69
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Heatley or GTFO. Kopitar and Spezza are the same player except Kopitar contributes in the defensive zone now. We need an elite sniper, not give away a bunch of our assets for a player we already have. If we give away players like Frolov or O'sullivan, will Spezza contribute as much here as he does now on his one line wonder in Ottawa? Keep our playmaker and get a finisher.

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02-04-2009, 03:31 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Heatley or GTFO. Kopitar and Spezza are the same player except Kopitar contributes in the defensive zone now. We need an elite sniper, not give away a bunch of our assets for a player we already have. If we give away players like Frolov or O'sullivan, will Spezza contribute as much as he does now on his one line wonder in Ottawa? Keep our playmaker and get a finisher.
i'd probably look more towards a player like Dany Heatley as well, and i honestly think he's who Ottawa needs to look to move first over any other player, especially their young #1 center.

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:32 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by slovenija View Post
I know him very well. I saw him last night when he did absolutely nothing.
To answer the second question. Certainly not Ottawa.
So my conclusion is he would be a great second line center in LA ( sorry Spezza fans )
Oh yes, your one game of watching him makes you a qualified expert on him.

Forget it. I'm not interested in what LA has to offer for Spezza.

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:34 PM
  #72
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i'd probably look more towards a player like Dany Heatley as well, and i honestly think he's who Ottawa needs to look to move first over any other player, especially their young #1 center.
alright this should be fun, heatley for?:

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02-04-2009, 03:34 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
No, you're missing the point. By exchanging first picks, kings have a better chance of picking higher in the draft as we would retain Ottawa's pick.

Chances are Ottawa's going to finish lower in the final standings than the kings thus having a higher pick in the 09 draft which would be ours upon exchange.
So you're asking for our best current player and our best player in terms of the future.

GTFO.

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:36 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by JT8888 View Post
To Ott - Bernier, Hickey, Moller
To La - Heatley
Here we go again

Stoll is doing fine as the 2nd line center. We need a goal scoring 1-2 man. I just don't see why Kings fans can't or won't see that, hence why I fixed your proposal.

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:40 PM
  #75
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Here we go again

Stoll is doing fine as the 2nd line center. We need a goal scoring 1-2 man. I just don't see why Kings fans can't or won't see that, hence why I fixed your proposal.
throw in Frolov to you "fixed" trade.

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