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Old
02-05-2009, 06:19 AM
  #1
Sad London Ranger
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THN takes issue with the organisation

quote
by Ken Campbell

Hate to be a killjoy here, but can anyone explain why it took the New York Rangers 45 years to decide to retire Andy Bathgate’s number and fewer than eight to retire Adam Graves’ digit?

After all, they both wore the same number with the Rangers - No. 9.
Adam is a stellar guy no doubt about it but his inclusion opens the
claims for many more: Add Gresh 4 and Walt 10!

http://thehockeynews.com/articles/23...ut-others.html

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Old
02-05-2009, 07:24 AM
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Levitate
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It's not like they forced him into the hall of fame. It's a teams decision to honor their player, who cares what else.

I personally don't think that Graves really did enough to get his number retired, but I know why the Rangers did it and it honestly doesn't matter too much. It also shouldn't matter so much to yahoos at a crappy rag like THN

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02-05-2009, 07:28 AM
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Jill Sandwich
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They're not saying that Graves is undeserving, they're saying there are other players who are more deserving.

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02-05-2009, 08:46 AM
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Maybe they only recently realized how much money they can make by having jersey retirement ceremonies and wanted to retire the number of a player with some relevance to today's fans?

Not trying to diminish the fact that some Rangers favorites/greats were retired... but it does sorta make sense.

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02-05-2009, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Therrien View Post
They're not saying that Graves is undeserving, they're saying there are other players who are more deserving.
And they're not completely understanding why the Rangers are honoring Graves more than these other players. It's not all about the points Graves put up.

Or if they do understand, they're just kind of ignoring that part for the sake of writing an article.

Again, I'm pretty 'meh' on the whole thing, but Graves has done a huge amount for the organization and the city itself that goes beyond the points he put up. You can argue that shouldn't matter, but again, this is about what a team wants to do; it's not like he's getting into the hall of fame or something.

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02-05-2009, 09:04 AM
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Need a link to the article.

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02-05-2009, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Need a link to the article.
http://thehockeynews.com/articles/23...ut-others.html

That's it.

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Old
02-05-2009, 09:30 AM
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Thanks.

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02-05-2009, 10:05 AM
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We have been over this a million times.

Graves deserves it, but others are more deserving, and the Rangers refuse to recognize their past and their tradition... even though they constantly talk about tradition.

Andy Bathgate (finally!)
Harry Howell (finally!)

Ron Greschner
Brad Park
Jean Ratelle
Walt Tkaczuk
Vic Hadfield
Frank Boucher
Bill Cook (28 & 33 Cups)
Fred "Bun" Cook (28 & 33 Cups)
Ivan "Ching" Johnson (28 & 33 Cups)
Butch Keeling (33 Cup)
Murray Murdoch (33 Cup)
Lynn Patrick (40 Cup)
Ott Heller (33 & 40 Cups)
Babe Pratt (40 Cup)

Lester Patrick
Emile Francis

Those are the guys who need to have banners in the rafters.

There are 4 guys who won 2 Stanley Cups with the Rangers... and they don't have their jerseys retired...

The Rangers refuse to acknowledge their first three Stanley Cups, and the guys who made them possible. We are talking about Hall of Fame players here, that won MULTIPLE Cups with this organization... as opposed to the ONE that Richter, Messier, Leetch, and Graves won with the Rangers.


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Old
02-05-2009, 10:22 AM
  #10
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Adam Graves (94 Cup)
Brian Leetch (94 Cup)
Mark Messier (94 Cup)
Mike Richter (94 Cup)
Rod Gilbert
Eddie Giacomin
Andy Bathgate
Harry Howell
Ron Greschner
Brad Park
Jean Ratelle
Walt Tkaczuk
Vic Hadfield
Frank Boucher
Bill Cook (28 & 33 Cups)
Fred "Bun" Cook (28 & 33 Cups)
Ivan "Ching" Johnson (28 & 33 Cups)
Butch Keeling (33 Cup)
Murray Murdoch (33 Cup)
Lynn Patrick (40 Cup)
Ott Heller (33 & 40 Cups)
Babe Pratt (40 Cup)

Lester Patrick
Emile Francis

That is the full list of jerseys we should see hanging in the rafters when we go to Madison Square Garden.

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Old
02-05-2009, 10:32 AM
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Unfortunately this organization is late to the party, real shocker right?

But like someone else had pointed out, these Jersey retirements made alot of money, the fans going to the games still remember what it was like to see Graves on the ice. Babe Pratt, not so much.

I suspect that everyone will be wearing their Ott Heller jerseys at next years ceremony?

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02-05-2009, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I suspect that everyone will be wearing their Ott Heller jerseys at next years ceremony?
Perhaps. But most would think that it was Orr spelled wrong.

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02-05-2009, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Perhaps. But most would think that it was Orr spelled wrong.
Oh he'll get his retired two years from now if some fans have their way

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02-05-2009, 10:44 AM
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Maybe the Garden should set up something like Yankee Stadium. Sort of a mini museum inside Madison Square Garden. The museum can include plaques(sp?) or monuments dedicated to those players mentioned in this thread. Maybe a couple of flat screens playing some of their highlights. A mini MSG Hall of Fame.

Dont forget the Knicks and all of the other memorable moments in MSG.

Do they have anything like this?

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02-05-2009, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Unfortunately this organization is late to the party, real shocker right?

But like someone else had pointed out, these Jersey retirements made alot of money, the fans going to the games still remember what it was like to see Graves on the ice. Babe Pratt, not so much.

I suspect that everyone will be wearing their Ott Heller jerseys at next years ceremony?
So because un educated (in regards to Rangers history) fans don't know who he is, that means the organization shouldn't recognize that he won TWO Stanley Cups with the Rangers?

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02-05-2009, 10:56 AM
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I think it should be a requirement to have won a cup as well as be good to get your number retired.

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02-05-2009, 11:07 AM
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I think it should be a requirement to have won a cup as well as be good to get your number retired.
Why? Winning a Cup is a team accomplishment.

So Jay Wells can be considered but Ron Greschner can't?

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02-05-2009, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
So because un educated (in regards to Rangers history) fans don't know who he is, that means the organization shouldn't recognize that he won TWO Stanley Cups with the Rangers?
Life isn't fair, and timing is everything my friend

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02-05-2009, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
So because un educated (in regards to Rangers history) fans don't know who he is, that means the organization shouldn't recognize that he won TWO Stanley Cups with the Rangers?
Like it or not, it also comes down to money. I can't see a Babe Ott night generating much interest or added excitement. Certainly wouldn't be a viewing party at the WaMu.

I'm not sure there's a Bathgate/Howell viewing party...

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02-05-2009, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Elite Swede View Post
Maybe the Garden should set up something like Yankee Stadium. Sort of a mini museum inside Madison Square Garden. The museum can include plaques(sp?) or monuments dedicated to those players mentioned in this thread. Maybe a couple of flat screens playing some of their highlights. A mini MSG Hall of Fame.

Dont forget the Knicks and all of the other memorable moments in MSG.

Do they have anything like this?
I know there have been some posts about an idea like that in the past. I for one am for a hall of fame like that. Most, if not all teams should have something like this to honor players from the past. Only retire the jerseys of guys who really deserve it

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02-05-2009, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
So because un educated (in regards to Rangers history) fans don't know who he is, that means the organization shouldn't recognize that he won TWO Stanley Cups with the Rangers?
Some of your posts come off as just mindless ranting and raving.

This one is one of those.

Who gives a **** if their main accomplishment is winning two Cups? Ott wasn't a hall of famer and wasn't an all time great player. And, as far as I know, most people don't remember him for all of the off ice deeds that he did (I could very well be wrong, if there is an Ott Heller historian on here please correct me).

I'm all for Bill and Bun Cook, Frank Boucher, Jean Ratalle being up there (and possibly guys like Tkaczuk, Ching Johnson, Grech and Park).

I'm also totally for honoring Lester Patrick (as he should be) and Emile Francis in some way.

But the rest of your list is a bit silly -- like you just pulled names out of a hat.

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02-05-2009, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Like it or not, it also comes down to money. I can't see a Babe Ott night generating much interest or added excitement. Certainly wouldn't be a viewing party at the WaMu.

I'm not sure there's a Bathgate/Howell viewing party...
Especially since you combined Babe Pratt and Ott Heller into one player!

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02-05-2009, 12:11 PM
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I laughed when they made Howell and Bathgate leave so the "CUp Guys" could take the picture together. I felt like Rosen was saying... "Ok, Winners stay, Losers gotta go."

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02-05-2009, 01:00 PM
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Nonsense. I mean, the number retiring is an official player's funeral. Only the person is left to live after it. That is why Mess was in tears every time he attended those, including his own. That is why Graves looked terrified. That is why youngsters do not care. Sure, there are always people who like to go to funerals, shed some tears, drink some beer, vodka or whatever, but it has more to do with their own aging than with the game of hockey. I do watch that stuff (may be for the above described reasons), but enough of it already! It is not a tradition, but rather exploitation of human weaknesses for cash.

Those players on the list are long gone. There is no reason to re-burry them again.

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02-05-2009, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Swede View Post
Maybe the Garden should set up something like Yankee Stadium. Sort of a mini museum inside Madison Square Garden. The museum can include plaques(sp?) or monuments dedicated to those players mentioned in this thread. Maybe a couple of flat screens playing some of their highlights. A mini MSG Hall of Fame.

Dont forget the Knicks and all of the other memorable moments in MSG.

Do they have anything like this?
The Devils are eventually going to do that in the Prudential Center so they can honor other popular/great players who will not have their number retired... like Brylin, MaClean, and others from before my time... (We have some old timers who know more than I do.)

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