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Hockey in the Desert II (Phoenix Coyotes franchise and business matters)

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Old
02-04-2009, 04:15 PM
  #1
Jake16
 
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Hockey in the Desert II (Phoenix Coyotes franchise and business matters)

Since the original thread is now closed having reached 1000 posts, lets continue the fun here. Debate away on the Coyotes' situation.

BTW: Bettman is due to address the Coyotes ownership situation during the first intermission of the Coyotes-Red Wing's game tonight on the Fox Sports AZ broadcast.

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Old
02-04-2009, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake16 View Post
BTW: Bettman is due to address the Coyotes ownership situation during the first intermission of the Coyotes-Red Wing's game tonight on the Fox Sports AZ broadcast.
I'll be watching.

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Old
02-04-2009, 07:32 PM
  #3
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Anyone record that interview that was on just now with FSN Arizona and Bettman?

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02-04-2009, 09:17 PM
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Jake16 you stole my epic business thread...............

You'll pay.

I would like to see the interview.

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Old
02-04-2009, 09:32 PM
  #5
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Same old stuff. Coyotes are in great shape, they'll be in AZ forever, the NHL is a juggernaut..

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02-04-2009, 09:40 PM
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..growth is great. making money, not so much.

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02-04-2009, 10:01 PM
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http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=407827

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Old
02-05-2009, 12:21 AM
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Dolemite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSchwab View Post
I would like to see the interview.
Summation:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=4...id=DL|NHL|home

Would have been nice to have the video to this but I'm impressed that the NHL 1) put this out and 2) put it out so quickly.

As I said in the Phoenix GDT, I was hoping that Bettman would have announced that the next All-Star Game is indeed in Phoenix as RDS had reported during the ASG weekend. It would have been the perfect opportunity to make that announcement and give fans some piece of mind about the team.

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Old
02-05-2009, 10:22 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
Summation:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=4...id=DL|NHL|home

Would have been nice to have the video to this but I'm impressed that the NHL 1) put this out and 2) put it out so quickly.

As I said in the Phoenix GDT, I was hoping that Bettman would have announced that the next All-Star Game is indeed in Phoenix as RDS had reported during the ASG weekend. It would have been the perfect opportunity to make that announcement and give fans some piece of mind about the team.

What I've heard is that the Coyotes have the option on the 2011 All Star game due to losing the 2006 game due to the Olympics, but have not formally exercised it yet. Hence no formal announcement yet. Should be soon though.

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Old
02-05-2009, 02:59 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
Anyone record that interview that was on just now with FSN Arizona and Bettman?
Here you go
http://coyotes.nhl.tv/team/console.j...id=-6&id=32740

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Old
02-05-2009, 09:37 PM
  #11
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Phoenix's books scare potential buyers away

Quote:
Gary Bettman struck out at least three times in attempts to peddle the Phoenix Coyotes, according to multiple sources.

The sources say the NHL commissioner was turned down by Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf, by Phoenix Suns majority owner Robert Sarver and by Ken Kendrick, the managing general partner of the Arizona Diamondbacks, on separate occasions. All three were said to have backed out after looking at the books of the Coyotes, who are expected to lose as much as $45-million (all currency U.S.) this season.

"It's not happening," a source close to Reinsdorf said yesterday. "They're begging him to do it, but there's no way. He has no interest. Who would?"

Reinsdorf, Sarver and Kendrick could not be reached for comment. Bill Daly, the deputy commissioner of the NHL, declined to comment.


"There is nothing I can tell you about that, for obvious reasons," Daly wrote in an e-mail message.

Jerry Moyes, the majority owner of the Coyotes, wants to sell the team because the total losses are in the neighbourhood of $200-million since he bought the club in 2001. Moyes is also having financial difficulties with his trucking firm, Swift Transportation Co., and is no longer willing or able to cover the Coyotes' losses.

The NHL is advancing money to the club to keep it alive and Bettman is looking for investors on Moyes's behalf. One source said Bettman cannot get any takers even though he is offering the team for nothing as long as the buyer covers the Coyotes' liabilities the annual losses plus a large debt to a New York hedge fund, thought to be about $80-million.
Full Article

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Old
02-05-2009, 10:00 PM
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I dunno, the fact that Reinsdorf, Sarver and Kendrick were interested (from the article it sounds like they did, even a little) is a positive sign. I mean, they had to realize Coyotes weren't exactly a big money makers right?

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02-05-2009, 10:31 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by The Korean View Post
I dunno, the fact that Reinsdorf, Sarver and Kendrick were interested (from the article it sounds like they did, even a little) is a positive sign. I mean, they had to realize Coyotes weren't exactly a big money makers right?

Not sure I'd think it was positive if you scared off the deep pocketed guys that quickly. It's not like there are many that are flush with money right now. (I'll dig up my thread from last year about the dearth of wealthy people interested in owning professional sports teams.)


Edit: http://online.wsj.com/public/article...f_main_tff_top

Quote:
Is Owning a Sports Team a Losing Bet?
By GEORGE ANDERS

Are sports-franchise prices headed for a tumble? Boom-time euphoria has vanished from the stock and real-estate markets. But the cost of acquiring a sports team keeps climbing in the face of a weakening economy, preserving what may be one of the last asset bubbles in North America.
...
But investment bankers and sports-team appraisers see reasons why that pattern is likely to come under strain. Even some team owners privately voice jitters.

"Nothing keeps going up, no matter what," says Steve Greenberg, an investment banker at Allen & Co. who specializes in the sports business. "If we're headed into a significant economic disruption, where people don't feel comfortable about their net worth, that will affect everything."
This was written before the credit crunch.

 
Old
02-05-2009, 11:29 PM
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Where's Brockheimer? Why would he not be interested? It's as close to Las Vegas as they will ever get.

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Old
02-05-2009, 11:50 PM
  #15
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Some more actual investigative journalism by the Canadian media. Where is the media in Phoenix? Is this even a story there yet?

Quote:
"It's not happening," a source close to Reinsdorf said yesterday. "They're begging him to do it, but there's no way. He has no interest. Who would?"

.....

"A lot of people have kicked the tires, but once they see the numbers, they walk away," said a former NHL governor who is familiar with the Coyotes' situation. "When you see they have 25 years left on their lease at $30-million a year [in losses], they tend to walk away."

The former governor said there have been inquiries from a couple of groups about the Coyotes, but only if they can move the team from its home in Glendale. The only way the Coyotes can break their lease is by seeking bankruptcy protection in the U.S. courts.
The above suggests Bettman may need to engineer a Nashville-type rescue package, where the lease is renegotiated and the penalties for leaving/breaking the lease are diminished, and certain targets are established, in order to find an investor to float the team for a few more years -- one that will be given a viable exit strategy in return for the investment.

GHOST

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Old
02-06-2009, 01:17 AM
  #16
mouser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Good example of what can happen when columnists play grapevine with agendas.


Arizona Republic article January 28th: (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coyo...es0128-ON.html)
Quote:
Moyes is seeking new shareholders after investing or obtaining loans of more than $200 million to keep the team afloat during the past eight years.
Jerry Moyes was co-owner with Steve Ellman from Spring 2001 until April 2006 when the two split assets including real estate developments around the arena and Moyes became sole owner. The $200mil figure includes Moyes buying the team, assuming Ellman's original purchase debt of $60mil, a further $35mil in investments to build the new arena and potentially other investment costs in the team holding company that included real estate development before Moyes and Ellman split.


Globe & Mail article February 5th by David Shoalts: (http://sports.theglobeandmail.com/se...rtsHockey/home)
Quote:
Jerry Moyes, the majority owner of the Coyotes, wants to sell the team because the total losses are in the neighbourhood of $200-million since he bought the club in 2001. Moyes is also having financial difficulties with his trucking firm, Swift Transportation Co., and is no longer willing or able to cover the Coyotes' losses.

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Old
02-06-2009, 01:17 AM
  #17
LadyStanley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
Where's Brockheimer? Why would he not be interested? It's as close to Las Vegas as they will ever get.
He's on NHL Live Friday. Perhaps we'll hear something from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

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Old
02-06-2009, 11:44 AM
  #18
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I've read every single post on the original thread over the last week. First I want to thank everyone that has participated in the discussion and analyzed the data. Some of the posters in this thread are brilliant people.

I'm not sure why so many different posters do actually see the situation as so binary.

It seems there are camp one says Phoenix is a non-traditional hockey market and therefore doesn't deserve an NHL team.The other says the NHL will be successful if the Yotes begin to win and they are given time.
I actually believe the answers are not simply yes/no and the issues are bigger than just this. If the NHL is to grow and prosper fans need to be created in every market. I'm not sure how many posters are aware that there was a time about a generation ago when the NFL was not the money machine it is today. Baseball held that position for the most part until the 1970s. The NFL expanded to non-traditional markets and additionally worked to teach the game of football to the masses and create their fan base. Eventually, football displaced baseball as the #1 sport in the US and today we have the billion dollar contracts in place for television rights alone.

I would like to see expansion, yes EXPANSION in the NHL to include some feasible Canadian cities. I think the Board of Governors should commission a feasibilty study of all potential markets with an eye towards expansion. If Winnipeg, Hamilton etc. look feasible, put a team there.
I also believe the league absolutely must invest in creating fans in the US. Done properly, because of the size of the US market, large dollars should eventually be flowing back to Canadian teams as a result. Please remember there are a number of strong franchises today that in fact were not in "traditional" hockey markets when they were founded. As an example, I've been to games in Toronto and also in Philly, NY, NJ, Boston, San Jose and my hometown of Columbus, OH. Trust me, the buzz and passion in Philly is the equal of anyplace, even the Air Canada Centre! AND Columbus is one of those small market teams, yet The Ohio State University sells over 104,000 tickets to every single home football game and packs over 19,000 in regularly for OSU basketball games. Heck they often get 6,000 plus for OSU hockey! If the NHL can tap into that rabid fan base, Nationwide (or as Columbus fans fondly say MASONwide) Arena won't be big enough at 18,000 plus.

Finally the NHL needs to build some credibility in general. As long as the previous GM was in place, they followed the silly but accepted practice of announcing attendance based upon tickets issued. The new regime put an immediate stop to that practice and announced actual attendance. Of course, announced attendance dropped significantly but at least we can trust what they say.

Wouldn't it be terrific if the Torontos and Montreals of the NHL actually got some cash back down the road, in fact so much as to repay every penny they have had to share plus some? And how about if the dollars flowing help finance the arena needed in Winnipeg to host an NHL franchise.

The NHL should invest in both the US and Canada and make this game blow up!!!

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Old
02-06-2009, 12:04 PM
  #19
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I'm not sure why so many different posters do actually see the situation as so binary.
It wouldn't be HF boards then, would it?

Seriously, an well thought out post and another way of looking at it. IMO the reason there's so much on one side or the other is that there(as you probably noticed)a lot of questions about the legitimacy of various numbers, media agendas, ect. I don't think we'll get a definitive until the NHL or Yotes come out in a press conference, layout all the facts, sources, numbers that can all be verified, and say "this is the way it is"(which I don't think is gonna happen) So we conjecture, and makes for some interesting discussion. Look forward to more of your input.

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Old
02-06-2009, 05:29 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHOSTofMAROONSroad View Post
Where is the media in Phoenix? Is this even a story there yet?
There has been a bunch of articles and like I said in the last thread "how much you wanna bet everyone ignores this," I guess I was right

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Old
02-06-2009, 05:55 PM
  #21
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1. Three potential buyers passed after looking at the books.
2. Bettman wants new owners on the hook for future obligations.
3. Sure looks like bankruptcy is on the horizon.

Either to gain relief from those future obligations OR to gain leverage on the City of Glendale/release from lease.

What ever clever deals where set up to have the Coyotes cover for the adjoining real estate are about to go bust-ville.

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Old
02-06-2009, 08:48 PM
  #22
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KTAR 620 in Phoenix just reported this story. This may be the first time they have ever talked about the team, ever. Fact is no one cares in Phoenix. The die hards like Mouser can try and pretend that all of this isn't happening by slicing and dicing every detail but it is. The reality.....REALITY...is that when the Coyotes move it will have a minimal impact in Phoenix. If these stories were about any other team in Phoenix it would be front page news. Only a few of us care and the team should be wanted. It just isn't working. The media doesn't report on any of this because quite frankly they know that no one cares. It would be a ratings buster. Take every angle, all things into consideration and even the most die hard fans if they are truthful know that we have MAJOR problems.

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Old
02-07-2009, 01:06 AM
  #23
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,6747083.story

MLB Chicago White Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf not interested in buying Phoenix Coyotes.

Apparently he's one of three that have turned down request to buy in (after looking at books).

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Old
02-07-2009, 01:35 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Yotes 97 View Post
KTAR 620 in Phoenix just reported this story. This may be the first time they have ever talked about the team, ever. Fact is no one cares in Phoenix. The die hards like Mouser can try and pretend that all of this isn't happening by slicing and dicing every detail but it is. The reality.....REALITY...is that when the Coyotes move it will have a minimal impact in Phoenix. If these stories were about any other team in Phoenix it would be front page news. Only a few of us care and the team should be wanted. It just isn't working. The media doesn't report on any of this because quite frankly they know that no one cares. It would be a ratings buster. Take every angle, all things into consideration and even the most die hard fans if they are truthful know that we have MAJOR problems.
Interesting comments. That's been my impression -- i.e., the story isn't a big deal in Phoenix so far.

GHOST

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Old
02-07-2009, 03:59 AM
  #25
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and it is EXACTLY our point(us so-called "elitists") it's not that NOBODY cares...it's that not enough people care.

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