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Coyotes Financial Situation aka Show Me the Money Thread #2

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Old
02-10-2009, 04:56 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
I'm sure the Raptors receive revenue from their wealthier brothers south of the Border. I think we need to move the Raptors to a market where they already have several basketball teams, I think Ft Wayne Indiana.
Let me offer a bit of advice.

You will not find a single Canadian who will care about the NBA or MLB enough for jibes like this to be effective. It's just not going to work.

Hockey is more of a religion than a sport in Canada, and just like any religion you have pockets of True Believers whose worship borders on fanaticism. Whereas more moderate believers think that proselyting the gospel to others is a good thing, even if other people may not be the "ideal" converts, the True Believers do not believe in casting pearls before swine. They have no compunction against bellowing, "Let God smite these heathen for they are sinners!" instead of reaching out in fellowship.

So when the Prophet David Shoalts preaches hellfire and damnation against the Phoenix Coyotes, nothing will move these True Believers from their righteous wrath. They intend to wash their feet in condemnation of the Phoenix market and, once it is abandoned, they will salt the earth so that nothing will grow there again.

Amen and hallelujah, brother.

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02-10-2009, 05:07 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Let me offer a bit of advice.

You will not find a single Canadian who will care about the NBA or MLB enough for jibes like this to be effective. It's just not going to work.

Hockey is more of a religion than a sport in Canada, and just like any religion you have pockets of True Believers whose worship borders on fanaticism. Whereas more moderate believers think that proselyting the gospel to others is a good thing, even if other people may not be the "ideal" converts, the True Believers do not believe in casting pearls before swine. They have no compunction against bellowing, "Let God smite these heathen for they are sinners!" instead of reaching out in fellowship.

So when the Prophet David Shoalts preaches hellfire and damnation against the Phoenix Coyotes, nothing will move these True Believers from their righteous wrath. They intend to wash their feet in condemnation of the Phoenix market and, once it is abandoned, they will salt the earth so that nothing will grow there again.

Amen and hallelujah, brother.
Wow.

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Old
02-10-2009, 05:13 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Amen and hallelujah, brother.
That is pretty funny.

Remember...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryzgalov
Thas hockey, you know. Is only game. Why you have to be mad?

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Old
02-10-2009, 05:18 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
I'm sure the Raptors receive revenue from their wealthier brothers south of the Border. I think we need to move the Raptors to a market where they already have several basketball teams, I think Ft Wayne Indiana.
Good point, other of course than the fact that the Raptors are the 7th most profitable and 11th most valuable franchise in the NBA.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/32/...ions_Rank.html

I guess some of those southern brothers could be getting money from them though.

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Old
02-10-2009, 05:20 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Jake16 View Post
I guess we should quickly load up the moving van and move 'em to a "traditional" baseball market (in America, of course).
By all means... go ahead. I don't think it would cause a major stir.

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Old
02-10-2009, 05:23 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by yakko View Post
That is pretty funny.

Remember...
Yeah, but Bryz is Russian. So it could be argued that his religion is vodka...

Me, I grew up in a community of True Believers and I'm done with that ****... whether it's religion, sports, politics or American Idols. I can usually get along with anyone except people who think they have a divine right to tell me how things are... such as hockey not belonging in a desert or that God meant hockey to be played in Canada or whatnot.

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Old
02-10-2009, 05:36 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Yeah, but Bryz is Russian. So it could be argued that his religion is vodka...

Me, I grew up in a community of True Believers and I'm done with that ****... whether it's religion, sports, politics or American Idols. I can usually get along with anyone except people who think they have a divine right to tell me how things are... such as hockey not belonging in a desert or that God meant hockey to be played in Canada or whatnot.
amen

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Old
02-10-2009, 06:55 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Yeah, but Bryz is Russian. So it could be argued that his religion is vodka...
It is as good as any other religion. I am still going to stick with beer and single malt scotch though.

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Old
02-10-2009, 07:05 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by yakko View Post
I am still going to stick with beer and single malt scotch though.
Amen

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Old
02-10-2009, 07:10 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta Yote View Post
Good point, other of course than the fact that the Raptors are the 7th most profitable and 11th most valuable franchise in the NBA.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/32/...ions_Rank.html

I guess some of those southern brothers could be getting money from them though.
Do they pay the NBA Luxury Tax?

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q16

So no they dont share

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Old
02-10-2009, 08:55 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Do you actually live here?

If you don't, you are absolutely unqualified to make that statement.
I'll let all the facts make the statement for me (ie. attendance figures, media coverage, financial situations, etc).

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Old
02-10-2009, 09:45 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by berklon View Post
Go ahead, not a lot of people care for baseball in Toronto... but it's still more than people in Phoenix care for hockey.
Thats not even a fair comparison. Throughout the USA hockey is considered largely a fringe sport. Its not even part of the "big four anymore." No national TV contract. Crap like NASCAR now blows it away in terms of national interest - I don't like admittting that and I'm just saying thats reality and that's not an issue restricted to Phoenix or Florida or Carolina. Its the mentality in the northern states too. I'm just trying to make the point that its alot easier for something as mainstream as baseball - the "national pastime" to get some foothold and interest in Canada, than hockey is in the USA. Even despite having relatively strong interest in major US cities like Phily, Chicago, Detroit, Boston - the NHL is still not even close to having a national TV contract of any monetary comparison to the NFL, NBA or NBA is usually back on page 12 in USA Today.


Last edited by Jake16: 02-10-2009 at 10:12 PM.
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Old
02-10-2009, 10:05 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by berklon View Post
I'll let all the facts make the statement for me (ie. attendance figures, media coverage, financial situations, etc).
Then by inference, we'll use declining attendance in Detroit, the fact that Ottawa went bankrupt a few years ago, and pejorative media coverage of the Maple Leafs and how they are the worst franchise ever as evidence that hockey can't be successful in those three places either.

Kudos to you for making this possible!

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Old
02-14-2009, 02:49 PM
  #64
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Deal, move the Yotes to Toronto. You can have the BlueJays. The Bluejays did set American League attendance records in 92/93. The first American League team to draw 4 million fans in one season. However they'd be gone in a second in a deal for the Yotes.

I would like to see the Raptors gone as well but unfortunately MLSE owns them. The only reason the Raptors make as much money as they do. MLSE forces Leaf season ticket holders to buy Raptor season tickets. Some scam eh! You can only buy these Leaf tickets if you pony up for Raptor tickets.

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Old
02-14-2009, 03:20 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
Deal, move the Yotes to Toronto. You can have the BlueJays. The Bluejays did set American League attendance records in 92/93. The first American League team to draw 4 million fans in one season. However they'd be gone in a second in a deal for the Yotes.
No deal.

Tell you what - we'll send you the Coyotes, complete with Wayne Gretzky, to Hamilton in exchange for an NHL expansion franchise named the Phoenix RoadRunners. Deal?

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Old
02-14-2009, 03:31 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
No deal.

Tell you what - we'll send you the Coyotes, complete with Wayne Gretzky, to Hamilton in exchange for an NHL expansion franchise named the Phoenix RoadRunners. Deal?
OK, not sure why you'd want to do that but if it means a second team around here and you can still have an NHL team..What could be better than that?

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Old
02-14-2009, 03:49 PM
  #67
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MLSE forces Leaf season ticket holders to buy Raptor season tickets. Some scam eh! You can only buy these Leaf tickets if you pony up for Raptor tickets.
Some seat holders...not all.

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Old
02-14-2009, 03:54 PM
  #68
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Sounds good to me.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by zyllyx
No deal.

Tell you what - we'll send you the Coyotes, complete with Wayne Gretzky, to Hamilton in exchange for an NHL expansion franchise named the Phoenix RoadRunners. Deal?

OK, not sure why you'd want to do that but if it means a second team around here and you can still have an NHL team..What could be better than that?
I think we have stumbled upon the solution. Canada gets its "stolen" merchandise back, and we get to have a new team that has no ties to anyone else. I would be onboard with that deal.

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Old
02-14-2009, 04:16 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
OK, not sure why you'd want to do that but if it means a second team around here and you can still have an NHL team..What could be better than that?
And why doesn't Hamilton just apply for an expansion team, if its so ready to pull the trigger and has all the pieces in place? The Coyotes aren't moving there unless someone wants to first pay the city of Glendale about $700M

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02-14-2009, 04:25 PM
  #70
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And why doesn't Hamilton just apply for an expansion team, if its so ready to pull the trigger and has all the pieces in place? The Coyotes aren't moving there unless someone wants to first pay the city of Glendale about $700M
Don't you think Glendale would be willing to waive the $700M penalty if they were assured of having a new expansion NHL franchise there to take the Coyotes' place?

Of course, this is kind of a tough proposition because we'd have to find someone who wants to convert the ECHL RoadRunners into the NHL RoadRunners; plus we'd lose guys like Doan and our awesome prospect base, which would suck. But if you believe in karma, having the Jets back in Canada and having the RoadRunners as Phoenix's pro franchise would be a perfect solution.

Plus, if you remember the old Warner Brothers cartoons, remember who always won between the Roadrunner and the Coyote...?

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02-14-2009, 04:42 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Don't you think Glendale would be willing to waive the $700M penalty if they were assured of having a new expansion NHL franchise there to take the Coyotes' place?
As long as somebody's on the hook for all that money, I doubt they would really care.

Quote:
But if you believe in karma, having the Jets back in Canada and having the RoadRunners as Phoenix's pro franchise would be a perfect solution.
The first hockey game I ever attended was a Roadrunners game. I'd hate to lose Doan, but something about it would feel right, on a visceral level. I much prefer the Roadrunner name and mascot anyway. I prefer quirky and unusual over something that's apparently meant to be fierce, if only in a cartoonish kind of way.

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Old
02-14-2009, 04:50 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Don't you think Glendale would be willing to waive the $700M penalty if they were assured of having a new expansion NHL franchise there to take the Coyotes' place?

Of course, this is kind of a tough proposition because we'd have to find someone who wants to convert the ECHL RoadRunners into the NHL RoadRunners; plus we'd lose guys like Doan and our awesome prospect base, which would suck. But if you believe in karma, having the Jets back in Canada and having the RoadRunners as Phoenix's pro franchise would be a perfect solution.

Plus, if you remember the old Warner Brothers cartoons, remember who always won between the Roadrunner and the Coyote...?
1. Lets be clear here, we're talking about a franchise "trade" between cities that would never actually happen.

2. Why would the league allow such a manuever? I assume that if an owner emerges in S. Ontario willing to (a.) build a new arena; (b.) pay off the Leafs/Sabres, the league could extract a much heavier expansion fee from that person than a fresh owner coming into the Phoenix market.

3. If a new owner was found for Phoenix, don't you think they would demand that the "assets" come with the team, i.e. the existing roster of players, draft picks and prospects, opposed to starting from stratch with a team of no-bodies.

4. What is Hamilton's connection to the Jets/Coyotes franchise that makes such a "trade" so desirable opposed to simply acquiring an expansion franchise for itself? The whole premise of this ridiculous idea is for the Coyotes to move NOT back to Winnipeg where they came from, but rather to Hamilton, a city 2000 miles away from there.

5. What the people in Winnipeg are supposed to be happy and satsified about that ??? - They still won't have a NHL team or get the Jets back. Its not like those in the city of Toronto often smile favorably on the City of Winnipeg. Rather, Winnipeg is more often the butt of their jokes than not.

6. Finally, I'm completely dumbfounded what the ECHL Phoenix Roadrunners have to do with this discussion at all. If the name "Roadrunners" from the old WHA franchise was so valuable and carried so much goodwill with it in the community, I'm sure it could have been acquired by the owners in 1996 for a very do-able price when moving the Jets to Arizona.

The bottom line is that our team is and will remain the Coyotes. They are staying in Arizona unless someone ponies up $700M to break the lease with Glendale or they completely implode and go bankrupt. Moyes and Bettman have both said within the last 2 weeks that that option is not on the horizon.


Last edited by Jake16: 02-14-2009 at 06:57 PM.
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Old
02-14-2009, 05:52 PM
  #73
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1. Lets be clear here, we're talking about a franchise "trade" between cities that would never actually happen.
...which is probably why you ought to chillax about it. It's a thought experiment, not a pending actual occurrence.

Quote:
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4. What is Hamilton's connection to the Jets/Coyotes franchise that makes such a "trade" so desirable opposed to simply acquiring an expansion franchise for itself? The whole premise of this ridiculous idea is for the Coyotes to move NOT back to Winnipeg where they came from, but rather to Hamilton, a city 2000 miles away from there.
First of all, thanks for using the word "ridiculous." It makes me sound so much more sane and balanced by comparison. Second, I will guarantee you that 99% of the people giving Phoenix such a hard time about having the Coyotes aren't Winnipeggers. Pretty much the only people who want the Jets back in Winnipeg actually live there. The rest of the hootin' and hollerin' is from Canadians who simply think the franchise (and the head coach/hockey god) was stolen from their country and needs to be returned.

Now me personally, my priority is keeping NHL hockey in Arizona. If the Coyotes left and we got a new franchise in the bargain, the Coyotes/Jets/Whatevers could go play in Left Noob, Saskatchewan for all I care. I like the Jets/Coyotes franchise a lot and I'd most likely still cheer for certain elements therein (Doan, Boedker, Turris, Lisin) regardless of where they ended up.

If you asked whether I think the franchise would be better off in Hamilton or Winnipeg, I'd vote Winnipeg because I think they got jobbed (get it?) and deserve to have first dibs on this particular franchise. But the overwhelmingly mind-blastingly large majority of the "Give Back The Yotes" movement want them in Hamilton. Hard not to see that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake16 View Post
6. Finally, I'm completely dumbfounded what the ECHL Phoenix Roadrunners have to do with this discussion at all. If the name "Roadrunners" from the old WHA franchise was so valuable and carried so much goodwill with it in the community, I'm sure it could have been acquired by the owners in 1996 for a very do-able price when moving the Jets to Arizona.
Well, the ECHL franchise was using the name and logo already, wasn't it? But, sticking with the theoretical nature of this premise, if the Coyotes left and the existing RoadRunners went **** up, I could think of no better name or logo or colors for the "replacement" franchise to adopt than those that have been around the Valley since before most folks around here were born.

But anyway, since this is a suppositional pie-in-the-sky theory (akin to the entire HFBoards Trades and Free Agents forum), why not bat it around instead of melting a brain microchip?

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Old
02-14-2009, 06:53 PM
  #74
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And you even spelled Saskatchewan right to boot.

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Old
02-14-2009, 07:05 PM
  #75
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[QUOTE=zyllyx;17926743
Now me personally, my priority is keeping NHL hockey in Arizona.[/QUOTE]

We're on the same page here.

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