Ummm...ya I probably would too even being somewhat of a Horton fan. Hearing a lot about Barker playing junior in my home province...he would be paired with Ballard,Ellerby and crew for years to come.
Chicago will not be able to afford ALL those 3-4 young studs on the blueline in a couple years plus those forwards up front. Lets take one of them while we can.
Note that I'm stepping back for just a second from that statement, as I haven't seen him for more than one season. But what I've seen is so much promise, so much potential to break out. He's got all the gifts, but not the head, IMO.
He's dazzling at times. I saw him score several goals this year from...totally impossible angles...and his wrister is amazing. But Horton can appear to b totally disinterested at others. He barely moves his feet.
Then again, he appeared to be doing much better at times in the last third of the season. And something he didn't get enough credit for, IMO, was his defense. He was quite active.
So which Horton are we going to get? The potential star? The jaded (been there, done that) hockey player. Or a frustrating mixture of the two?
So, yes, I think I'd trade him, given what I read above about how unresponsive he's been to various coaches in the past. I believe someone in an earlier post used the word enigmatic. I think it fits.
Note that I'm stepping back for just a second from that statement, as I haven't seen him for more than one season. But what I've seen is so much promise, so much potential to break out. He's got all the gifts, but not the head, IMO.
He's dazzling at times. I saw him score several goals this year from...totally impossible angles...and his wrister is amazing. But Horton can appear to b totally disinterested at others. He barely moves his feet.
Then again, he appeared to be doing much better at times in the last third of the season. And something he didn't get enough credit for, IMO, was his defense. He was quite active.
So which Horton are we going to get? The potential star? The jaded (been there, done that) hockey player. Or a frustrating mixture of the two?
So, yes, I think I'd trade him, given what I read above about how unresponsive he's been to various coaches in the past. I believe someone in an earlier post used the word enigmatic. I think it fits.
2 objections to your rationale for a potential trade: one thing i'll point out (always do, to the chagrin of several posters here) is that fans often have a hard time gauging when a guy is floating and when he's picking his spots or even if he's working hard on the backcheck (the bottom line is that if he has defensive position on HIS check, he's where he needs to be, even if it looks like he's coasting). many great scorers would appear to be floating at times if you followed them for their entire shift. yada, yada, yada... i know it gets old but it's the truth. in saying this, i don't mean to excuse instances where horton's compete level hasn't been where it should be (and i agree that has been the case at times), mind you.
the other point is that the line can blur when you talk about individual responsibility. i mean, nate has been thrown into some tough situations, with questionable guidance (keenan and olli?) leaned on heavily on mediocre teams and still, when healthy, produced 60+ pts. he also hasn't had a ton of support. remember how productive he was with booth and weiss? remember, these were not his choices.
having said all that, if you can trade him and make the team better, sure, do it. in this market though, don't you think think a guy who can score 30 goals, maybe even 40 with good support is a pretty good value at 4.xM/yr?
we dont need him by anymeans and i wouldnt actually go out of my way to get him but with u guys wanting to trade him and us needing to get rid of a big contract i figured this might work
I've heard absolutely nothing that we want to trade him, not even rumors. Anything is just people on the trade rumors forum or some hockey pundit speculating that we want to move him. And we don't want anything to do with Campbell, he's one of the most overpaid players in the league. He singlehandedly lost game 2 for you guys. Horton justifies his current salary and has the potential to get much better. As others have said, we'd be looking for people like Bolland, Barker, Byfuglien, etc. Which I don't think the Hawks would do.
I don't see Horton being traded because it would be very difficult to get equal talent back at forward.
2 objections to your rationale for a potential trade: one thing i'll point out (always do, to the chagrin of several posters here) is that fans often have a hard time gauging when a guy is floating and when he's picking his spots or even if he's working hard on the backcheck (the bottom line is that if he has defensive position on HIS check, he's where he needs to be, even if it looks like he's coasting). many great scorers would appear to be floating at times if you followed them for their entire shift. yada, yada, yada... i know it gets old but it's the truth. in saying this, i don't mean to excuse instances where horton's compete level hasn't been where it should be (and i agree that has been the case at times), mind you.
the other point is that the line can blur when you talk about individual responsibility. i mean, nate has been thrown into some tough situations, with questionable guidance (keenan and olli?) leaned on heavily on mediocre teams and still, when healthy, produced 60+ pts. he also hasn't had a ton of support. remember how productive he was with booth and weiss? remember, these were not his choices.
having said all that, if you can trade him and make the team better, sure, do it. in this market though, don't you think think a guy who can score 30 goals, maybe even 40 with good support is a pretty good value at 4.xM/yr?
Well thought out, as usual. I agree that it's hard to tell if someone is floating. And we can't forget, too, that over an 82 game season everyone--including all of us here, would be going to have nights when our head's just not in it. That's human.
And you're right about him being thrown into some difficult situations. I can't speak to what happened earlier with coaches, but the Horton at center experiment (I can see the rational and thought processes behind it) didn't work out very well, IMO. I certainly don't blame Horton for that. It's very difficult to learn a new position, so I give him props for doing that.
I was pleasantly surprised to see him playing well defensively, toward the latter part of the season, and made mention of that.
But I don't know...
On one hand, you're right, at 4mil, he's a bargain if he scores 30 to 40 goals. I don't know off-hand how many he got this year, say his 20+ goals, but I can't help shake the thought that I wonder how many more he'd score if he'd just put a little urgency in his game.
That said, and here I'm back-pedaling on myself, I've seen members of the Dutch national soccer team play at the most languid pace imaginable--and destroy other teams. You do have to pick your spots, you're right. I can't help but wonder if Horton's picking too many spots.
This is maddening because everyone railed at his taking so long to get his wrist shot off. And it's true, he did that a lot. But is he perhaps going for a high percentage shot?
I don't remember him playing with Booth and Weiss because I'm too new, so I can't speak to that. I suppose that what bothers me the most is seeing so much natural talent not being brought out. Its interesting to compare him to Booth, who, from what I've read from other people's postings, was not projected to be all that good a forward. But he worked hard on his skating, works hard all the time. That's why his name is chanted by the crowd when he touches the puck. I can't say I've heard anything the same happen with Horton. What if Horton worked like Booth? What would we have then?
A massively underpaid guy at four million per year?
Let me throw this thought out to all of you: Of all the Panthers, who do you think the two most tradeable players are? I mea from a two-sided (them and us) approach, meaning you don't want to trade Booth because what you are probably going to get back does not equal what you're giving up.
Horton has all that promise. I wonder if any GMs out there would bite and give up a bit too much.
Then again, as soon as it happens, watch Horton pot 50 in a year! (can't find the smiley-face guy button, so pretend that I inserted it, please)
I'd take that trade any day, but unfortunately there's no way it would become reality.
I think Bouwmeester will go for picks, nothing else.
-FPF
Welcome to the madness...
I agree, I don't think Bouw goes for much more than picks. I think certain players can be attained, but we give more than just Bouw and Bouw would have to agree to a deal pretty much beforehand.
__________________ Gudbranson fanboy and defender for liiiiiife!
With all due respect to Helm, he's an energy guy, not a scorer. There's no way he would be the main piece coming back in a Horton trade...at least I hope not.
With all due respect to Helm, he's an energy guy, not a scorer. There's no way he would be the main piece coming back in a Horton trade...at least I hope not.
Agree, if Helm was the main piece you guys wanted I think it would be high way robbery, the only reason detroit probably don't do that trade though is simply cause of their closeness to the cap
But this isn't even a rumor, it's a trade proposal.
