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Old
02-07-2009, 01:03 AM
  #1
WhiskeySeven
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Blame

It seems as though every time we lose more than two games that certain groups of fans blame certain players and/or management. We're 2-6 in the last eight and it seems woeful.

I know that the team is going to pick up, they are too talented not to, but this undercurrent of blame always creeps in after every loss and exponentially so after every subsequent loss.

So far I've witnessed blame thrown towards:

Kovalev - Too selfish, unmotivated, Euro
Hamrlik - Doesn't hit, doesn't pass well, expensive
Kostitsyn Bros. - Inconsistent, exclusive, Euro
Plekanec - Soft, snakebit, Euro
Komisarek - Bad plays, doesn't hit, doesn't pass well
Koivu - Leadership issues (this is the one I fall under I guess), Euro
Price - Lets in way too many softies, over-confident

Carbo - Too rigid with his system, messes with the lines too much, bad communicator (???), no system

Gainey - Carbo, no signings, no trades, too quiet

So who do you think is the main factor for our bad play (not just recent, in general)?

NB: By Euro I mean the misconception that European players =/= Tough

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02-07-2009, 01:13 AM
  #2
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Higgins: Can't finish, over rated
Breeze: Piece of ****
Boullion: Often criticized
OByrne: Remember a couple months back...
BGL: because of his code

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Old
02-07-2009, 01:16 AM
  #3
tdecheno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkiness View Post
So who do you think is the main factor for our bad play (not just recent, in general)?
It's just a slump. We'll get out of it cause all good teams go through it. And we're still doing OK despite the massive injury bug. Things will even out by April and we'll have home ice advantage.

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Old
02-07-2009, 01:30 AM
  #4
WhiskeySeven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgRiVaToRR View Post
Add

Higgins: Can't finish, over rated
Breeze: Piece of ****
Boullion: Often criticized
OByrne: Remember a couple months back...
BGL: because of his code
No man. My point is that there is so much blame being tossed around, which of it is actually warranted?

I am Pro-Carbo and Neutral to Gainey. Many others would disagree with me. My point is that as fans who presumably all watch the same team every night, we could come up to a consensus as to which members of the organization/on-ice-team are to blame for under-performance.

I'm not talking about day to day losses. I'm talking about two consecutive 5 goal against games. A 2-6 record with the abundance of talent that we have is ridiculous. WE HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO BE A STANLEY CUP CONTENDER. I won't even mention our previous slump that caused so much distress. Why are we not reaching that potential? Who is to be accountable?

Higgins, Bouillon, Brisbois, O'Byrne and BGL are hardly factors that affect overall team play. Kovy, Koivu, Price and the top4 D-men are factors. The Plekanec line is a factor. Injuries are factors. O'Byrne's own-goal is NOT.

That being said I think that Carbo really needs fix the PP because we are in trouble.


Last edited by WhiskeySeven: 02-07-2009 at 01:37 AM.
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Old
02-07-2009, 01:48 AM
  #5
lou4gehrig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkiness View Post
It seems as though every time we lose more than two games that certain groups of fans blame certain players and/or management. We're 2-6 in the last eight and it seems woeful.

I know that the team is going to pick up, they are too talented not to, but this undercurrent of blame always creeps in after every loss and exponentially so after every subsequent loss.

So far I've witnessed blame thrown towards:

Kovalev - Too selfish, unmotivated, Euro
Hamrlik - Doesn't hit, doesn't pass well, expensive
Kostitsyn Bros. - Inconsistent, exclusive, Euro
Plekanec - Soft, snakebit, Euro
Komisarek - Bad plays, doesn't hit, doesn't pass well
Koivu - Leadership issues (this is the one I fall under I guess), Euro
Price - Lets in way too many softies, over-confident

Carbo - Too rigid with his system, messes with the lines too much, bad communicator (???), no system

Gainey - Carbo, no signings, no trades, too quiet

So who do you think is the main factor for our bad play (not just recent, in general)?

NB: By Euro I mean the misconception that European players =/= Tough
I noticed you didn't mention any Quebecois other than Carbo. Coincidence?

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02-07-2009, 01:51 AM
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sandman08
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koivu has leadership issues? really?

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Old
02-07-2009, 02:15 AM
  #7
holyhabs87
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bench kovy tomorrow

give the A to lapierre permanently

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02-07-2009, 02:34 AM
  #8
WhiskeySeven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
I noticed you didn't mention any Quebecois other than Carbo. Coincidence?
Dude read my post. I'm not taking sides, this is supposed to be a discussion on why this team is under-performing. My opinion hardly matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman08 View Post
koivu has leadership issues? really?
It is in my opinion that he does. It is not a popular opinion but that is the point of this thread. To collaborate opinions and see who is ultimately to blame for our under performance.

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02-07-2009, 03:53 AM
  #9
sandman08
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Originally Posted by Funkiness View Post
Dude read my post. I'm not taking sides, this is supposed to be a discussion on why this team is under-performing. My opinion hardly matters.



It is in my opinion that he does. It is not a popular opinion but that is the point of this thread. To collaborate opinions and see who is ultimately to blame for our under performance.
okay i'll bite.. why do you think that?

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02-07-2009, 05:00 AM
  #10
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"It seems as though every time we lose more than two games that certain groups of fans blame certain players and/or management. We're 2-6 in the last eight and it seems woeful.

I know that the team is going to pick up, they are too talented not to, but this undercurrent of blame always creeps in after every loss and exponentially so after every subsequent loss."

--
"2-6 in last 8 games"? yes that is getting to be a habit. Habs also went 2-6 the last 8 games of 2007-2008 playoffs as well against the same two teams they had gone 12-0 against in that regular season.

and gainey did nothing too to bolster last year's or the year before's teams at the trade deadline. in fact even keeping souray and ryder and then losing both as free agents getting nothing for them. coaching and gm mean everything in this game. gainey and or carbonneau got nothing out of ribeiro, ryder the last year, robidas, samsonov and better coaches are putting them to shame now.

when will fans wake up and see how bad a job gainey has done? this team needed defense help and for years especially under this style of play but he adds no one and there were many defensemen out there the last few years. he goes and brings back retreads like boullion and brisebois castoffs of other teams who clearly are not good enough. like he once had traverse as a defensemen for far too long. look at the improvement IMMEDIATELY when denis savard was fired in chicago and replaced by a competant head coach.

gainey wont fire the friends he hired as his staff. carbonneau cannot get the best out of them - plain and simple. last night habs were clearly the better team but their incompetance on the defense and defensive recklessness again is getting them beat playing as gainey says "the exciting style that we like to play."

same ol' same ol'

tonight habs will thump toronto because they are a much better team and too many hab fans will forget how bad gainey and carbonneau are.

but then if they keep playing this way on the roadtrip next week, habs will soon be back struggling to hold on to a playoff spot as florida, carolina and pittsburgh are charging forward now.

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Old
02-07-2009, 05:08 AM
  #11
Kimota
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I don't know about Funkiness but I don't think Koivu is a leader as far as being a classic captain of an north american hockey team that has to set agendas, confront his own players, help a fellow player on the ice, etc...We all love Saku because he's a great dude and always works hard but that's where it ends with him. I think if you look at a championship winning squad you will find a Koivu there but he won't be the leader.

If we go back to what he mentioned:

Quote:
Kovalev - Too selfish, unmotivated, Euro
Hamrlik - Doesn't hit, doesn't pass well, expensive
Kostitsyn Bros. - Inconsistent, exclusive, Euro
Plekanec - Soft, snakebit, Euro
Komisarek - Bad plays, doesn't hit, doesn't pass well
Koivu - Leadership issues (this is the one I fall under I guess), Euro
Price - Lets in way too many softies, over-confident

Carbo - Too rigid with his system, messes with the lines too much, bad communicator (???), no system

Gainey - Carbo, no signings, no trades, too quiet
These are all valid points and explain why we're there. But let me say this, if we take player by player last year, with the guys we had most people thought we would not make the playoffs. It's only by Kovalev becoming super-human that the team found themselves transformed like wild fires had entered their veins. Kovy has returned to normal this year: Could it be that the guys we have way more average that we thought with one guy not serving as locomotive? Everybody looked geniuses from the players to Carbo to Bob..even Timmins. Maybe the Habs are now the way they truly are. This is the real Komisarek. These are the real Kosti Bros.

That would mean that while we have good material in there, we're more average than we think. And from now on we would have to work harder. First Kovy will have to leave. Then go from there with the players being more dedicated, Carbo being less forgiving, Gainey being less passive.

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Old
02-07-2009, 05:18 AM
  #12
RC51
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Who to blame??

It all comes down to the fans.
The Fans want to Habs to win every game no matter what.
well the Fans are not willing to pay the price.

If you are a true Hab fan, you would sacrifice you life by strapping some c-4 to yourself and taking out the visitors dressing room before the game starts.

The hockey Gods promise you 72 VIRGIN STANLEY CUPS and the Bell Center full of milk and honey, and you shall sit at the right hand of "Richard"

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Old
02-07-2009, 06:08 AM
  #13
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To sums up... the players do not hate enough to lose...

I think only Carbo hate to lose in there, you see him with medias after a loss it look like he want to kill someone.

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Old
02-07-2009, 06:55 AM
  #14
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I think its the fact that NHL teams will lose despite putting in effort. The games they played before Pittsburgh were unmotivated. However, there was a lot more effort against Pittsburgh and against Buffalo.

Some people disgust me the way they talk about management and players when they only see them on the ice. How the hell do these people know that certain players are cancer in the dressing room? Do they have a hidden camera? Did they drill a hole in the wall?

If the Canadiens keep putting in the effort they had put against Pittsburgh and Buffalo, the results will follow. Lets just hope that they have a good attitude and work hard every night.

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Old
02-07-2009, 07:15 AM
  #15
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This is such a pointless thread, its basically pointing the finger. I'd rather read Eklund rumors, theres a reason why teams rarely point the finger, because it does nothing, it solves nothing, an you just end up with a de-motivated team.

Nice try though.

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Old
02-07-2009, 07:26 AM
  #16
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It's simple, Kovalev's hair is short and dark.. Last season his hair was long and blonde, and when he looks young he plays great, and of course, he looks great.

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Old
02-07-2009, 07:32 AM
  #17
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hmm

Price is still hurt, save percentage has been crap since he came back. And Halak needs some games.
Carbo is uneven. He needs an experienced Xs and Os assistant coach to help him out. The staff (Carbo, Muller, Jarvis) are all too similar, all relatively young, all grinders, not much experience. Maybe add Don Lever?
Komisarek lost the game with his goof last night, but he has been good. He's been moving the puck more lately.
O'Byrne is much, much, better lately, let him play.
Gorges was crap for a few weeks before his concussion, and he should get some days off both to find his game and clear his head.
Dandenault should play and play D just because of the effort he put in this year. He should not lose his job due to injury.
Hamrlik needs a rest now and then.

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Old
02-07-2009, 08:07 AM
  #18
Kirk Muller
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After awhile it doesn't become "just a slump."

This team hasn't been any thing great since a hot start to the year. They have been barely above 500 since. They have failed to put in full efforts more often then not and sometimes look completely disinterested.

When do you say there are problems with the team? After they fall right out of the playoffs? But hey, its just a slump.

Like most i will cheer this team through thick and thin but i am not gonna sugar coat it and say management is doing great, youth development is on par with the best teams in the league, Kovalev didn't mail that effort in, Price was great, etc etc.

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Old
02-07-2009, 08:53 AM
  #19
SAKS AVENUE
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As Price says in his own words....


An NHL goalie should stop a puck like that............


Good first period..........bad goal...............lights out.


We have zero confidence in scoring goals, one softie or behind two goals sets off alarms and this team folds...........


Blame?


All the talented cotton balls that don't have the confidence to lead .............. or the talent


everyone

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02-07-2009, 09:11 AM
  #20
Chris Nilan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkiness View Post
It seems as though every time we lose more than two games that certain groups of fans blame certain players and/or management. We're 2-6 in the last eight and it seems woeful.

[snip]
So who do you think is the main factor for our bad play (not just recent, in general)?
Um, I haven't changed my tune in several years. They are missing someone who can make a difference in a close game. Simple as that.

They outshot B-lo 35-20 last night. Many many chances were from good spots.

They hit, they played hard, they didn't quit (with maybe one exception). I have never bought the "grit" factor that all the Don Cherry clones parrot. Oh, and don't tell me it was b/c BGL was in the lineup. His presence only encourages idiocy.

A pile of 20-25 goal scorers who can occasionally hit 30 is great. You need a 40-50 goal guy. You need a 95+ point guy.

I was right two weeks ago, two months ago, two years ago. I'll be right tomorrow.

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02-07-2009, 09:17 AM
  #21
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkiness View Post
It seems as though every time we lose more than two games that certain groups of fans blame certain players and/or management. We're 2-6 in the last eight and it seems woeful.

I know that the team is going to pick up, they are too talented not to, but this undercurrent of blame always creeps in after every loss and exponentially so after every subsequent loss.

So far I've witnessed blame thrown towards:

Kovalev - Too selfish, unmotivated, Euro
Hamrlik - Doesn't hit, doesn't pass well, expensive
Kostitsyn Bros. - Inconsistent, exclusive, Euro
Plekanec - Soft, snakebit, Euro
Komisarek - Bad plays, doesn't hit, doesn't pass well
Koivu - Leadership issues (this is the one I fall under I guess), Euro
Price - Lets in way too many softies, over-confident

Carbo - Too rigid with his system, messes with the lines too much, bad communicator (???), no system

Gainey - Carbo, no signings, no trades, too quiet

So who do you think is the main factor for our bad play (not just recent, in general)?

NB: By Euro I mean the misconception that European players =/= Tough
What's with people always lumping Andrei with his brother? They are different players, different calibre and they are having very different seasons. Andrei is one of our most physical forwards and on pace for over 30 goals, his brother oplays indifferent, in half the games does not compete and he isn't producing offensively(apart from a hot start).

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02-07-2009, 09:24 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Chris Nilan View Post
Um, I haven't changed my tune in several years. They are missing someone who can make a difference in a close game. Simple as that.

They outshot B-lo 35-20 last night. Many many chances were from good spots.

They hit, they played hard, they didn't quit (with maybe one exception). I have never bought the "grit" factor that all the Don Cherry clones parrot. Oh, and don't tell me it was b/c BGL was in the lineup. His presence only encourages idiocy.

A pile of 20-25 goal scorers who can occasionally hit 30 is great. You need a 40-50 goal guy. You need a 95+ point guy.

I was right two weeks ago, two months ago, two years ago. I'll be right tomorrow.
I'd rather have 3-4 25-35 goal scorers than 1-2 40 goal/90 point guy like Atlanta and TB, we'll see where those teams are come playoff time.

It all boils down to goaltending, apart from Detroit and maybe Boston, no team is strong enough to give up a weak goal each might and still win. That's been the case for the past 3 weeks...even the Pittsburgh game, Carey gave up a softie to Malkin that nearly got Pittsburgh back in the game after being dominated for 50 minutes.

Last night we are buzzing all over Miller and he's playing great, then a nothing shot from the blueline and a goal...it's tough to bounce back from that every night.

I don't just blame Carey, I blame his coach for playing him and playing him...give the kid a night off a nd a few sessions with Rollie to get himself straighened out. Instead of rushing him back, they should have given Denis a couple of starts...was that not the point of signing him???

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02-07-2009, 09:26 AM
  #23
WhiskeySeven
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I used to preach the whole "we need a superstar" thing. Now I'm not too sure. On one hand LeCav can just change a game with his talent, but on the other... the team is really balanced, we'd become top-heavy if we get a superstar.

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02-07-2009, 09:32 AM
  #24
22Brad Park
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdecheno View Post
It's just a slump. We'll get out of it cause all good teams go through it. And we're still doing OK despite the massive injury bug. Things will even out by April and we'll have home ice advantage.
Want to place a wager on that

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Old
02-07-2009, 09:33 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I don't just blame Carey, I blame his coach for playing him and playing him...give the kid a night off a nd a few sessions with Rollie to get himself straighened out. Instead of rushing him back, they should have given Denis a couple of starts...was that not the point of signing him???
NO!

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