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Fire Renney! (Part 3)

View Poll Results: What Should Become of Renney?
Keep him! 48 22.33%
Fire him or Demote him! (Assistant Coach, Scout, etc) 167 77.67%
Voters: 215. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-08-2009, 07:02 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick26 View Post
Wasn't Dallas supposed to be the "bounce back" game?
Even if they win tomorrow night, what does that prove?
That they're capable of beating the Devils?
We know that already
.
That was last season.

I'm expecting to get trounced tomorrow night.

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02-08-2009, 11:33 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Give one example when it worked, please. Feel free to pick ANY sport team in New York. Just do not go outside NYC. We are special place.
Recent memory

Jim Fassel, 1997 Giants -- went to SB in 4th season in NY

Pat Riley, 1992 Knicks -- went to NBA Finals in 3rd season in NY

Bobby Valentine, 1996 (end of season) Mets -- went to playoffs in 3rd full season and won pennant in 4th full season

Jeff Van Gundy, 1996 (end of season) -- went to NBA Finals in 4th season in NY

Joe Torre, 1996 yanks -- won WS in 1st season in NY

Mike Keenan, 1993 Rangers -- won SC in 1st and only season in NY

Bill Parcells, 1997 Jets -- went to AFC Championship in 2nd season in NY

Tom Coughlin, 2004 -- won SB in 4th season in NY


I have said all along I will give Renney until the end of this season. If he gets his 4th straight 90-plus point season (which he should) He deserves the chance to coach his way into the CF or SCF after three straight early exits.

The rangers have a terrible reputation of tanking it when coaches are fired mid-season. Brooks, Webster, Bergeron, Nielson, Campbell, Trottier, Muckler were all fired before their repsective season ended and it did nothing for the team THE REMAINDER OF THE SEASON!!!

If we fire renney, history says it is better to wait until the offseason.

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02-08-2009, 11:40 PM
  #53
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I'm not necessarily for firing Renney but if it does happen one of Laviolette, Torts or Quinn better be the replacement otherwise I think its kind of pointless. Honestly though I only give him until the end of this season and if we don't make it past the 2nd round then I believe its time to consider other options.

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Old
02-09-2009, 08:37 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
Recent memory

Jim Fassel, 1997 Giants -- went to SB in 4th season in NY

Pat Riley, 1992 Knicks -- went to NBA Finals in 3rd season in NY

Bobby Valentine, 1996 (end of season) Mets -- went to playoffs in 3rd full season and won pennant in 4th full season

Jeff Van Gundy, 1996 (end of season) -- went to NBA Finals in 4th season in NY

Joe Torre, 1996 yanks -- won WS in 1st season in NY

Mike Keenan, 1993 Rangers -- won SC in 1st and only season in NY

Bill Parcells, 1997 Jets -- went to AFC Championship in 2nd season in NY

Tom Coughlin, 2004 -- won SB in 4th season in NY


I have said all along I will give Renney until the end of this season. If he gets his 4th straight 90-plus point season (which he should) He deserves the chance to coach his way into the CF or SCF after three straight early exits.

The rangers have a terrible reputation of tanking it when coaches are fired mid-season. Brooks, Webster, Bergeron, Nielson, Campbell, Trottier, Muckler were all fired before their repsective season ended and it did nothing for the team THE REMAINDER OF THE SEASON!!!

If we fire renney, history says it is better to wait until the offseason.
Exactly. Based on the above, if Renney gets canned this month we are out of PO this year and two to three years after. Great move!

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02-09-2009, 08:56 AM
  #55
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Reality is, this is an average to above average team. Renney nor bringing in Scotty Bowman(in his prime) will change that. I mean with all these new players and young players what was the expectation? stanley cup? I dont think so.

Renney while you may disagree with certain aspects of his philosophy, has done a good job. And IMO has gotten what has been expected out of this group. There will be highs and lows in every season.

Tom has gotten results every year he's been here and that needs to be judged at year end. UNLESS he's lost his players... and i've seen nothing to show that is the case.

Sather is a different story in my opinion.....

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Old
02-09-2009, 09:16 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmieder44 View Post
Reality is, this is an average to above average team. Renney nor bringing in Scotty Bowman(in his prime) will change that. I mean with all these new players and young players what was the expectation? stanley cup? I dont think so.

Renney while you may disagree with certain aspects of his philosophy, has done a good job. And IMO has gotten what has been expected out of this group. There will be highs and lows in every season.

Tom has gotten results every year he's been here and that needs to be judged at year end. UNLESS he's lost his players... and i've seen nothing to show that is the case.
Sather is a different story in my opinion.....
Uh, losing 10-2? Hello?

What do you need - them burning a Ken doll in a bad suit in effigy in a corner of the locker room?

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Old
02-09-2009, 09:20 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Exactly. Based on the above, if Renney gets canned this month we are out of PO this year and two to three years after. Great move!
Ehhh not exactly. A more in depth look.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Fassel, Giants - 1993-1996 no playoffs. Hired 1997, made playoffs. 1998, 1999 no playoffs. 2000 went to super bowl.



Pat Riley, Knicks - 88-89 won division out in second round, 89-90 playoffs out in second round, 90-91 playoffs out in first round, Hired 1992 won division out in 2nd round, 1993 won division out in 3rd round, 1994 won conference out in finals



Bobby Valentine, Mets - No playoffs since 1988. Hired 1996 (end of season) Mets -- went to playoffs in 3rd full season and won pennant in 4th full season.



Jeff Van Gundy, Knicks - 1995 (Don Nelson) playoffs 2nd round out, hired 1996 (end of season) playoffs out 2nd round, 1997 playoffs out 2nd round, 1998 playoffs out 2nd round, 1999 went to NBA Finals.



Joe Torre, Yankees - 1982 - 1994 no playoffs. 1995 playoffs lost in 1st round. hired 1996 won WS.



Mike Keenan, Rangers - 1989-90 first in division out in 2nd round. 1990-91 playoffs out in 1st round. 1991-92 best in league, out in 2nd round. 1993 no playoffs. 1994 hired Rangers won SC



Bill Parcells, Jets - 1991 - 1995 no playoffs. 1996 hired no playoffs, 1997 won division lost in conference finals



Tom Coughlin, no playoffs 2003, hired 2004 no playoffs, 2005 playoffs out first round, 2006 playoffs out first round, 2007 super bowl

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you look at some of these guys, Parcells & Valentine, for example they came after years of no playoffs. You have some guys who came after one year of no playoffs. The only coaches that came after a year of playoffs were Torre, Riley, & Van Gundy.

Coughlin & Keenan were the only two who were hired after a one year playoffs drought. The Rangers were obviously a different situation where the team pretty much tanked to get the coach out as we can see how successful they were the year before.

judging by all that. The least successful of the group were the ones who took over after years of playoff drought. The most successful were the ones who took over after years of playoffs (I'd almost put Keenan in that group).

Any coach who would take over for the Rangers would be in that 2nd category, meaning that they'd be in a much better position for success than coaches like Parcells and Valentine.


Last edited by WhipNash27: 02-09-2009 at 09:25 AM.
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Old
02-09-2009, 10:32 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Uh, losing 10-2? Hello?

What do you need - them burning a Ken doll in a bad suit in effigy in a corner of the locker room?
Anyone familiar with NHL level hockey knows that loss with high number of goals against is a goaltender meltdown. Coaches prevent that by pulling the goalie. No one replaced Valiquette when he started letting in almost every shot in the 3rd. There was no backup available, I guess. That has noting to do with the team or Renney losing the grip on them. I'm sorry, but no fan is informed enough to draw such conclusion. Sometimes even GM and/or owners do not know enough (or not being smart enough) to make the detrmination.

This is a little above average team. That should be enough to make a playoffs. No one EVER expected anything else. They have gotten hot at the beginning the very same way NJ got hot about now. Both teams are built on the sand, they are not structually sound. Both have got good coaches. Both will exit the playoffs early.

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:47 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
Any coach who would take over for the Rangers would be in that 2nd category, meaning that they'd be in a much better position for success than coaches like Parcells and Valentine.
Those teams had players. Rangers got garbage that no one in the league wants. They made playoffs thanks to Jagr and Lundqvist. Now Jagr is gone and Lindqvist is at his worst season as a Ranger. We still can make a playoffs (simply because east is very weak), but expect from this team a deep run is ludicrous with any coach.

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:52 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Demote him. Keep him as a player evaluator -- something that he is fantastic at.

I would be upset to see him fired and let go. He should be kept in as an evaluator.
i agree with this, except for his voros over prucha decision. i know prucha gets fluffed around these parts a lot but i am not anywhere near a pru fluffer and see this to be nothing more than retardation.

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:52 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Those teams had players. Rangers got garbage that no one in the league wants. They made playoffs thanks to Jar and Lundqvist. Now Jagr is gone and Lindqvist is at his worst season as a Ranger. We still can make a playoffs (simply because east is very weak), but expect from this team a deep run is ludicrous with any coach.
Teams are starting to make their 2nd half pushes and the Rangers have been in that blah zone still. Don't be surprised if that 5 point cushion on #9 starts to fade if this team doesn't get their collective heads out of their butts.

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02-09-2009, 11:06 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
Teams are starting to make their 2nd half pushes and the Rangers have been in that blah zone still. Don't be surprised if that 5 point cushion on #9 starts to fade if this team doesn't get their collective heads out of their butts.
We got tough protion of the schedule. I mean we played against better goalies (including Atlanta) than ours. Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far Rangers win every game when our G has better game than the opponent. That is an indication that hope is not lost, because that is what above average team do. All we need to survive your prediction is to get our G play better than opponent statistically. If Lundqvist plays better then Clemensen (Lundy is a better goalie, is he not?) we will win tonight.

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Old
02-09-2009, 11:06 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
Teams are starting to make their 2nd half pushes and the Rangers have been in that blah zone still. Don't be surprised if that 5 point cushion on #9 starts to fade if this team doesn't get their collective heads out of their butts.
Actually, Florida & Buffalo are the team below us playing much better than .500 right now and the Sabes just lost Vanek for at least a month. Plus the two teams ahead of us, Philly & Montreal have been mediocre lately, with the habs having all sorts of injury woes.

Anything is possible.

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Old
02-09-2009, 12:38 PM
  #64
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I have yet a better idea.

PRomote him to Assistant GM.

Then you can replace him with another coach, and if that coach fails....Demote him back to coach and gut the roster.

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02-09-2009, 12:58 PM
  #65
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I think there are a few realistic scenarios for Renney. I don't think he's here next season if this team does not make the playoffs. I think he stays if this team does make the playoffs, even if it bows out in four games (just a hunch; Sather likely has higher expectations for this team otherwise he wouldn't have doled out the contracts he did in the offseason). If they fall out of bed over the next couple weeks and slip out of the race, I don't know what happens. Depending on how bad it looks and if it seems as though he's lost the team, I'm inclined to think he'd be out, but I don't see a replacement, thinking any in-season termination would result with a hiring from within and I just don't know who that person would be.

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02-09-2009, 01:00 PM
  #66
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Keep Renney in the organization, bring in Pat Quinn to turn these boys into men.

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02-09-2009, 01:31 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
As director of Player Personel he has ALOT to do with the type of player we draft and who we select when it is our turn.
Renney is also one voice in the room, Some picks work out...Some don't....It's the nature of sports...right? Do you see teams having ALL there draft picks make it to the NHL...

Quote:
Absolutely he bears alot of the blame in that regards.
Since when was Tom Renney the final voice over who gets picked and who doesn't?

Quote:
I give him alot of credit for the players he's drafted, but when you have the ability to generally get the pick of the litter in the draft after the top 10-15 guys are gone and you screw the pooch 2-3 years in a row (Montoya is a semi bust but I understand the need to draft him when the did with Dan Blackburn still injured).
Renney didn't draft these players...Sather did...RIGHT OR WRONG?




Quote:
Even with some of the solid players he has had a hand in drafting, there's still not an offensive leader amongst them.
Again this isn't on Renney, it's on Sather....it's on Maloney....it's not on Renney...the guy who has been in a coaching capicity the past 4 years....You want to go back to 2003 but the Rangers now have the 3 pick in the 2003 draft....Weird that the draft isn't the only way for players to end up on the Rangers isn't it?


Quote:
Not one of the drafts he's been an integral part of has the ability to point to one individual player nad say teams are going to game plan against this player or that player.
so you don't think teams are trying to get there players off the ice when the Rozsvial-Staal pairing is on? Also do you think Dubinsky, Dawes, Callahan, Girardi, Korps, Anisimov, ETC ETC have hit there potential?


Quote:
We have no offensive weapons that we have drafted that causes problems for opposing teams. He had the ability to draft 2-3 of those and what we got was a 3rd line winger (Korpedo) and a total bust in Jessiman. Lets take is a step further. I absolutely love the Staal pick, but we all knew we needed an offensive forward in the system as that was what we truly lacked. Instead he goes out and selects Sangs when he could have gotten a Berglund. He did follow the Sangs pick with Artem (was considered by many to be a late 1st riunder that fell the day of the draft).
You can also trade for and sign for players....BTW who is HE? Are you still trying to make a case that guys drafted after Renney was named coach are on his resume as HIS draft picks? So Renney had the final say over the coaching decisions and draft picks? Man, Renney should get a raise!

You realize teams are drafting BPA at the 20th pick in the draft....What's the problem with drafting Sangs if they thought he was the BPA? You talk about Bergland but how many other teams passed on him?



Quote:
Cherepanov was a no brainer. He had to be taken in that position. It's a good pick, but not one that was "hard to make". I would have liked to have seen who he would have chosen had Cherry not fallen into our laps. I like the DZ pick and I think he's going to be more of a force for this team than Sangs will be. But based on the selection of Sangs, already having a guy like Staal on the team with Girardi also on the team and Sauer in the system, I personally think that we could have used that pick on what was and still is more of a need which is an offensive forward. Someone like Eberle or Nemisz.
Not one that was "hard to make?" huh....Considering that draft was considered the weakest in years possibly ever what do you think the Rangers should've done with that pick? You realize that Del Zotto or Sangs can be traded if the depth on defense calls for it...Maybe that's when you use the value of THAT pick, you trade either one for a PROVEN scorer.....One the organization doesnt' have to wait to develop....weird concept right?

Quote:
Yes, Tom has alot to do with the piss poor drafting this team has had in the first rounds over the last few years and while they are progressing nicely, Sangs and DZ still have alot to prove before they are considered successes.
Ok...he had to do with piss-poor drafting yet the roster is filled with guys drafted by the Rangers....

So Sangs and Del Zotto have to develop.....no kidding! Renney should get very little credit for drafting them......He isn't scouting the OHL he is the coach of the team.....

Quote:
As for giving the kids ice time, I applaud that I really do. But if those kids are not getting any better, and they aren't, he's not making the organization any better by playing them.
It's weird that people used to say Rangers fans would never have patience for young players in the lineup....Do you think maybe in the longrun these players will get better from the icetime? Also...What players should be playing over these kids?
Quote:
Tom Renney has no balance to his system. I'm not saying we have 40 goal guys here, but some balance to the system and this team should have a 30 goal guy. The fact that he fails to sit any vet that make continous mistakes is pathetic. The fact that the ONLY players to be made held accountable is Fritchie, Dawes, Voros, and Prucha is absurd.
When you say accountable you mean scratched? You know that you can punish players in other ways then scratching them....I mean why does it have to be public for it to be real? I'll never understand that...

Btw where would the Rangers be without this system? I bet this team would have A LOT more blowouts against......Why do you want a bunch of square pegs to fit into round holes? Weren't you one of the guys on this board back in the day that CRIED that the team would never have a tight defensive system while Sather was the coach? Yup....now you have it and you want it gone....yet the team has made the playoff for 3 years under Renney AND dispite a team filled with in your words "no offensive weapons" is having a season that should find them in the playoffs...I don't get it....If they have no offensive weapons why would they open up the system?

Quote:
When you hold the kind of practice he held and the team resonds they way they did, it's LOUD and CLEAR that he's lost the team. He needs to go and we need to cut ties once and for all.
No it isn't LOUD AND CLEAR he's lost the team....It would be loud and clear if they weren't following his system.....They are for the most part...Want proof? Look at the two games before the Dallas game...how many goals did they give up?

Does anybody think maybe the reaction to that Dallas game is a bit overblown? It was a terrible game but it counts as one loss in the standings..

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02-09-2009, 02:05 PM
  #68
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I wonder what Renney would look like on steroids.

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02-09-2009, 02:23 PM
  #69
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I wonder what Renney would look like on steroids.

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02-09-2009, 03:00 PM
  #70
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Renney can't run a bench. +
Renney's style is bad for the sport of hockey. +
Renney tries to be tough at the wrong times. +
Renney can't fix the PP no matter what players he has. +
There are better coaches out there =
Renney should be fired and someone else should get his job.

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02-09-2009, 03:31 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Renney can't run a bench. +
Renney's style is bad for the sport of hockey. +
Renney tries to be tough at the wrong times. +
Renney can't fix the PP no matter what players he has. +
There are better coaches out there =
Renney should be fired and someone else should get his job.
The Rangers have one of the worst groups of forwards in the league and an average defense = Renney is not the biggest problem.

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02-09-2009, 03:44 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Ice Hockey View Post
i agree with this, except for his voros over prucha decision. i know prucha gets fluffed around these parts a lot but i am not anywhere near a pru fluffer and see this to be nothing more than retardation.
The real reason IMO, why Voros is in there instead of Prucha is this team is filled with fairly skilled players with hardly any toughness. Colton Orr cannot protect every member of this team from getting picked on. I'm not saying we need to fill the roster with enforcers. But Voros can agitate a little bit and most importantly, can stand up for himself. It's hard to watch guys like Steve Ott single handedly run around, bang into and frustrate the hell out of Ranger players for 60 minutes with a big smile on his face.

When Avery and Hollweg left, we sacrificed too much toughness and whats the difference? We still spend more than enough time in the penalty box.

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02-09-2009, 04:17 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
Renney can't run a bench. +
Renney's style is bad for the sport of hockey. +
Renney tries to be tough at the wrong times. +
Renney can't fix the PP no matter what players he has. +
There are better coaches out there =
Renney should be fired and someone else should get his job.
Oh please, don't get me started on Tom Renney. I just had the rant of a lifetime about him and his "defensive trap style" approach. And then you wonder why people on here complain that this team is boring.
Tom Renney, even if he believes it. Should keep his big mouth shut and not make a statement like, we can only win games 2-1 or 1-0. Either privately or public. To me that's mocking your teammates for all to hear. After that little rant, his ass should have been out the door. He thinks he's Mr. Know it all and his way is the only way.

When your own coach does not believe in his teams ability to score goals, that's a huge confidence buster to all of the players.
Let's face it. This team is not such a bad offensive team. They lost faith in Tom Renney and his stubborn "defense wins" mentality.

How can I blame Drury, Gomez, or Redden? All of whom have worn the "C" on their chest, when they themselves do not want to play under coach Tom Renney. His whole philosophy is smothering and suffocating this team. Each and every player. He's holding them back on a leash with a choker chain. The team plays afraid to give up a goal instead of playing hungry on the attack.

Messier new what garbage to dispose as soon as his plane landed in Vancouver and caught a glimpse of how the Canucks team was being run. No doubt, Messier played a part in ridding Vancouver of the Tom Renney disease before it sunk into the pores of each and every player and destroyed the team. Just as he had done here in NY with Roger Neilson. He knew that Neilson was not the right man to lead a Rangers team to a Stanley Cup so he had him fired. In came Keenen.

The best way out of this mess is in the hands of Sather to fire Professor Tom Renney and his narcissistic personality and bring in someone who doesn't necessarily have to preach the importance of "paying attention to detail." We aren't building a sculpture here. It's hockey. They should be accountable. But let the kids go out there and play will you?

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Old
02-09-2009, 04:27 PM
  #74
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There have been far too many "wake up" games already this season.
And guess what, they haven't woken up.
The ultimate kick in the ass is yet to come.
completely agree. after every bad loss people say its a wake up call. well i havent seen anybody wake up

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Old
02-09-2009, 04:31 PM
  #75
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Hopefully after tonights loss, Renney gets the boot!!!

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