Howe accomplished about ten times more than Lemieux in his career, in a much lower scoring era. Unless this is a "could have been" poll, Howe is head and shoulders above Mario.
Gordie Howe. You need to stay Healthy to produce and Howe was an iron man who produced on Lemieux levels in the 50's, while being a feared physical presence and defensively sound forward.
People don't seem to realize just how high Howe's stats would have been given the 80's open ice play rather than the completely defensively dominated 50's. The 50's were even more defensive than the modern "Dead puck era" between 1997-2004. Back then Defensemen did not even join the rush and all forwards backchecked, or were demoted to the minors.
Just to illustrate How high Howe's scoring would be in the 80's....Ill take 5 of Howe's early years in the 50's and adjust them to mid 80's scoring levels.
This does not account for the fact that Howe was also a feared Physical presence and defensive forward, but it shows his scoring was top notch and comparable to Lemieux's, despite his much more complete game(If he was playing like everyone else in the 80's and opened it up forgetting about defense, he likely puts up Gretzky/Lemieux top numbers).
It also is only 5 of his early years. Howe was top 5 in scoring for 20 straight years. Not including those 5 years, he would have had a string of 55 goal, 120-130 point seasons on top of those. At age 40, Howe was not what he used to be, yet had his highest scoring year ever with 103 points. Why? Because the game had started to open up and he was still a top player(Although it was still nowhere near as wide open as the 80's)
Howe has 6 Hart Trophies, 6 Art Ross titles and 21 Right wing all star selections. He made those selections playing his prime against Maurice Richard, usually beating him.
Ovechkin shouldn't be up there yet with those guys
I know... but he's the most dominant player I've watched in a few decades and I couldn't imagine what things would be like for him playing with #99, so he has to be there.
Plus he makes the starting line-up perfect. Got your sniper who can take care of himself, got your play maker, got your mean as they come powerforward, got your beyond offensively gifted defenseman and got your giant punishing defenseman with a huge point shot.
Gordie Howe. You need to stay Healthy to produce and Howe was an iron man who produced on Lemieux levels in the 50's, while being a feared physical presence and defensively sound forward.
People don't seem to realize just how high Howe's stats would have been given the 80's open ice play rather than the completely defensively dominated 50's. The 50's were even more defensive than the modern "Dead puck era" between 1997-2004. Back then Defensemen did not even join the rush and all forwards backchecked, or were demoted to the minors.
Just to illustrate How high Howe's scoring would be in the 80's....Ill take 5 of Howe's early years in the 50's and adjust them to mid 80's scoring levels.
This does not account for the fact that Howe was also a feared Physical presence and defensive forward, but it shows his scoring was top notch and comparable to Lemieux's, despite his much more complete game(If he was playing like everyone else in the 80's and opened it up forgetting about defense, he likely puts up Gretzky/Lemieux top numbers).
It also is only 5 of his early years. Howe was top 5 in scoring for 20 straight years. Not including those 5 years, he would have had a string of 55 goal, 120-130 point seasons on top of those. At age 40, Howe was not what he used to be, yet had his highest scoring year ever with 103 points. Why? Because the game had started to open up and he was still a top player(Although it was still nowhere near as wide open as the 80's)
Howe has 6 Hart Trophies, 6 Art Ross titles and 21 Right wing all star selections. He made those selections playing his prime against Maurice Richard, usually beating him.
Add Morenz, Bourque. Remove Yzerman.
Yep and to think that his stats would've been even higher if he hadn't jumped to the WHL.
I consider Messier to be a similar player to Howe... except Howe was better than him in every aspect of the game. Not suggesting that Messier wasn't an incredible player, though. He's surely one of the 5 best forwards to play out a full career since the 80's hit.
Howe accomplished about ten times more than Lemieux in his career, in a much lower scoring era. Unless this is a "could have been" poll, Howe is head and shoulders above Mario.
"ten times" is quite the hyperbole, but I agree with the rest of your post.
Anyway, I'm glad this is being done in the polls section. It'll be interesting to see how different it turns out from the list in the history of hockey section - which is the result of a much more laborious process.
"ten times" is quite the hyperbole, but I agree with the rest of your post.
Anyway, I'm glad this is being done in the polls section. It'll be interesting to see how different it turns out from the list in the history of hockey section - which is the result of a much more laborious process.
I'd place a hefty wager that Gordie Howe broke at least ten times as many records in the NHL as Mario Lemiuex.
Trottier yes. Kurri? Uh, no. Not till the 70's voting rolls around
And Dionne? his regular seasons were top 20/30 worthy, but his playoffs were around, generously, 300th? So he drops a great deal. Likely into the 50's
Nobody could have won a cup on Dionne's teams, but his individual playoff performance was exceptionally dreadful(His offensive production dropped 42%), despite playing on the strong triple crown line. He is probably the only HOF player who has never won a best of 7 series.
Here are some detailed posts from the History section discussions on these players.
