HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Anaheim Ducks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

09 Draft thread

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-18-2009, 11:49 AM
  #51
Kevin Forbes
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
Looking at 08, we missed out on Luke Adam, Patrice Cormier, and Chris Doyle (all from the Q) so we could draft O'Dell (and his whopping 26 GP), Justin Schultz of the BCHL (when we could have had Sauve or Scandella)...Brittain looks like a good pick, Cousineau was a horrible pick (one good year for an 18 year-old goalie) given that Sateri, Tokarski and Poulin were all available, Brandon McMillan looks like a good pick (especially since he can play up front and on the back end), and I have no idea who the other players we picked are...
You're judging players after one season!

Only 12 of the 211 players drafted last June have even seen NHL action yet, and none of the players you just mentioned have played a single game in the league.

Like seriously man, don't ever buy a chicken farm, you'll be breaking all the eggs because they didn't hatch on the first day.

Kevin Forbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 11:49 AM
  #52
Bjindaho
Registered User
 
Bjindaho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes View Post
Strangely enough, Bobby Ryan was the first player drafted under the Burke era. What does that tell you?

Draft picks need time to come to fruition. It will still be years before anyone can fairly and accurately judge the Burke drafts in Anaheim's history. Besides, I'm not sure how much of an impact Burke had on Anaheim's drafting to begin with. The main braintrust that ran the draft ever since the departure of Gauthier (McNab, Murray and Chainey) has remained intact throughout Burke's time and now into the future. Based on Anaheim's draft tendencies, I would suspect that Burke didn't change much from what Bryan Murray put in place although this upcoming draft will say for sure.
Well, hopefully, their decisions improve...it's one thing to move down, it's another to move down and basically waste the extra picks by drafting poorly...I was literally swearing at my PC when I saw that we had picked Deschamps...

Bjindaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 11:50 AM
  #53
Bjindaho
Registered User
 
Bjindaho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes View Post
You're judging players after one season!

Only 12 of the 211 players drafted last June have even seen NHL action yet, and none of the players you just mentioned have played a single game in the league.

Like seriously man, don't ever buy a chicken farm, you'll be breaking all the eggs because they didn't hatch on the first day.
Actually, I felt they would have been better picks a year ago, and most of them improved significantly...

Bjindaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 11:55 AM
  #54
Talentless Practise*
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,244
vCash: 500
Looking at the new ISS rankings, guys listed around our pick are Ellis, Schroeder, Holland, Moore and Ferraro. Given that we've drafte a lot of defensemen the past few years and the moves Murray made this season, i think we'll take a froward. Schroeder is an interesting option given his huge offensive upside but he lacks size badly. I don't know much about Holland, is he related to Ken Holland?

------

As comes to our drafting, only MacMillan can so far be considered a bad pick and even he isn't a hopeless cause yet.

Talentless Practise* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 11:57 AM
  #55
Bjindaho
Registered User
 
Bjindaho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
Looking at the new ISS rankings, guys listed around our pick are Ellis, Schroeder, Holland, Moore and Ferraro. Given that we've drafte a lot of defensemen the past few years and the moves Murray made this season, i think we'll take a froward. Schroeder is an interesting option given his huge offensive upside but he lacks size badly. I don't know much about Holland, is he related to Ken Holland?

------

As comes to our drafting, only MacMillan can so far be considered a bad pick and even he isn't a hopeless cause yet.
We had better not pick Ellis...that would be a horrible mistake...kinda like drafting Ian White of Toronto in the 1st...

Bjindaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 11:58 AM
  #56
Bjindaho
Registered User
 
Bjindaho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,492
vCash: 500
John Moore sounds interesting for our pick (or Despres) if we go D...on forward, I'd pick Landon Ferraro, Peter Holland, or if we wanted to stretch a bit, Louis Leblanc...

Bjindaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 12:02 PM
  #57
Bjindaho
Registered User
 
Bjindaho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
As comes to our drafting, only MacMillan can so far be considered a bad pick and even he isn't a hopeless cause yet.
He is a bad pick...not a hopeless hockey player though...he could easily be a bottom 6 player and potentially a weak 2nd liner...

Bryce Swan is another terrible Burke-era pick...there have been a few bad ones

Bjindaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 12:05 PM
  #58
Kevin Forbes
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
Actually, I felt they would have been better picks a year ago, and most of them improved significantly...
Kudos to you then, I guess. Polish up the resume and send it off to some GMs.

Seriously though, I'm not going to pretend inside knowledge on why some players were chosen over the others, but you're using hindsight for your arguments for guys like Cormier, Doyle, Adam, Scandella, Sauve and Poulin. During their draft year, I personally had some questions about all those guys and judging from the way the draft went, so did other teams.

If teams would have known that Cormier could stay healthy and play a bit smarter on the ice, if teams would have known that Doyle would have matured to be more then just a kid with a shot, if teams would have known that Adam's skating would have improved enough that it didn't look like he was wearing rubber boots out there, I'm sure things would have been different.

There's still questions about those guys and questions about guys like Scandella (sure he responded to being given oodles of icetime, but how much is ability and how much is opportunity, someone had to score), Sauve (see Scandella), Poulin (looks like he's starting to get conventional goaltending coaching, but who is to say if there will be a happy marriage between his physical abilities and reflexes and baseboard things like positioning, angles and rebounds).

The same way there are still questions about the guys Anaheim did select. Who would Logan MacMillan be if he didn't have the concussion to start his 2007-08 season? O'Dell turned into Christensen, Schultz is likely 3 years away before anyone can even guess what he'll become, I personally don't like Cousineau, but I can understand why he might have been selected over Poulin, Deschamps isn't going to be a scorer at the NHL level and expectations that he will are misguided.

Kevin Forbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 12:05 PM
  #59
Talentless Practise*
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
Bryce Swan is another terrible Burke-era pick...there have been a few bad ones
You make it sound like every pick that doesn't pan out is a bad pick. For a 2nd rounder, the default is minor leaguer/depth NHL'er, not top-4 D or top-6 forward.

Talentless Practise* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 12:07 PM
  #60
Kevin Forbes
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
Bryce Swan is another terrible Burke-era pick...there have been a few bad ones
Patrice Cormier could have easily become a Bryce Swan. Swan made his own bed.

Kevin Forbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 12:19 PM
  #61
Talentless Practise*
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,244
vCash: 500
Hey Kevin, what's your impression on Scott Glennie and Peter Holland?

-Which has the higher upside?
-Which is more NHL-ready? Given that 2nd line hole we have and that it will likely be filled with a FA stopgap, it'd be nice to have a potential solution in the system ready to step up in a couple years.

Everyone else's opinion is ofcourse very welcome.

PS. Maybe the way to go in the future is to just slip into the 8th spot and go from there. If it works out in the playoffs, great. If it doesn't, we get a good pick. Just kidding obv.

Edit. Glennie, not Ferraro.

Talentless Practise* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 12:20 PM
  #62
Bjindaho
Registered User
 
Bjindaho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes View Post
Kudos to you then, I guess. Polish up the resume and send it off to some GMs.

Seriously though, I'm not going to pretend inside knowledge on why some players were chosen over the others, but you're using hindsight for your arguments for guys like Cormier, Doyle, Adam, Scandella, Sauve and Poulin. During their draft year, I personally had some questions about all those guys and judging from the way the draft went, so did other teams.

If teams would have known that Cormier could stay healthy and play a bit smarter on the ice, if teams would have known that Doyle would have matured to be more then just a kid with a shot, if teams would have known that Adam's skating would have improved enough that it didn't look like he was wearing rubber boots out there, I'm sure things would have been different.

There's still questions about those guys and questions about guys like Scandella (sure he responded to being given oodles of icetime, but how much is ability and how much is opportunity, someone had to score), Sauve (see Scandella), Poulin (looks like he's starting to get conventional goaltending coaching, but who is to say if there will be a happy marriage between his physical abilities and reflexes and baseboard things like positioning, angles and rebounds).

The same way there are still questions about the guys Anaheim did select. Who would Logan MacMillan be if he didn't have the concussion to start his 2007-08 season? O'Dell turned into Christensen, Schultz is likely 3 years away before anyone can even guess what he'll become, I personally don't like Cousineau, but I can understand why he might have been selected over Poulin, Deschamps isn't going to be a scorer at the NHL level and expectations that he will are misguided.
We drafted a player that every major scouting agency had around the 25-40 range with the 16th overall pick...there were valid concerns there

Poulin had potential (a butterfly goalie that would benefit greatly from Allaire)...the bigger problem I have with this pick is Cousineau (who seems like an average at best goalie)

Bjindaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 12:27 PM
  #63
Kevin Forbes
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
Hey Kevin, what's your impression on Scott Glennie and Peter Holland?

-Which has the higher upside?
-Which is more NHL-ready? Given that 2nd line hole we have and that it will likely be filled with a FA stopgap, it'd be nice to have a potential solution in the system ready to step up in a couple years.

Everyone else's opinion is ofcourse very welcome.

PS. Maybe the way to go in the future is to just slip into the 8th spot and go from there. If it works out in the playoffs, great. If it doesn't, we get a good pick. Just kidding obv.

Edit. Glennie, not Ferraro.
I have no opinion. Haven't seen them. I focus pretty much on the Q these days. Sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
We drafted a player that every major scouting agency had around the 25-40 range with the 16th overall pick...there were valid concerns there

Poulin had potential (a butterfly goalie that would benefit greatly from Allaire)...the bigger problem I have with this pick is Cousineau (who seems like an average at best goalie)
The MacMillan selection had a lot to do with the interview, I believe. That's half the reason why I liked the pick, because I like the player.

The problem with Poulin is that he wasn't a butterfly goaltender in his draft year, he was all over the place. Did anything he could to stop the puck, but a lot of it was reflexes (or guessing if you want to get right down to it). When he was right, it was amazing to see and when he was wrong, it was dreadful to see. The only way to develop him would to either run with that style and see what happens (maybe Tim Thomas, more likely nothing) or to completely rebuild him. Judging from what he looked like this season, I think the Islanders are working with option 2.

Kevin Forbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 01:01 PM
  #64
snarktacular
Ducks tank is on!
 
snarktacular's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 17,893
vCash: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes View Post
Strangely enough, Bobby Ryan was the first player drafted under the Burke era. What does that tell you?
Just to mess with you:

That Burke didn't have anything to do with drafting Ryan (too soon after he was hired)?

snarktacular is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 01:11 PM
  #65
Kevin Forbes
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
Just to mess with you:

That Burke didn't have anything to do with drafting Ryan (too soon after he was hired)?
Fair enough. Burke has had many quotes about how impressed he was when the team interviewed Ryan. Burke might not have completely fingered Ryan as being that #2 overall pick, but he had a voice at the table.

Kevin Forbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 05:15 PM
  #66
Randall Graves*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 18,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
Deschamps had his stats padded by Pare (like Logan)...he had a setback this year after Pare had left...

Gardiner isn't a very good pick considering we gave up Tyler Myers to get him...

If you look at this team, we were in solid shape heading into the MacMillan draft...we reached hard for our first rounder, drafted Tangradi (not a bad pick, but he was traded), and Macenauer is the only other pick from that draft that looks decent (and he could easily have been picked 2-5 rounds later since half the Quebec league had no idea who he was let alone the NHL)
Deschamps played really well the second half of the year, he was a good choice and still has 2nd line center upside

Randall Graves* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 05:18 PM
  #67
Randall Graves*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 18,621
vCash: 500
I see some mocks with us taking Kreider who is 6'1 and getting reviews as being the best skater in the draft, but my question is does he have the talent to match? or is he another Mathieu Dandenault..

Randall Graves* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 06:32 PM
  #68
Spankatola Jamnuts*
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ...sucka?
Country: United States
Posts: 10,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes View Post
The MacMillan selection had a lot to do with the interview, I believe. That's half the reason why I liked the pick, because I like the player.
You like him, like personally? But what does he do?

Spankatola Jamnuts* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 07:10 PM
  #69
Kevin Forbes
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spankatola Jamnuts View Post
You like him, like personally? But what does he do?
He's a two way guy, has a decent shot, decent skating ability, average offensive skills, solid defensive abilities, above average in the faceoff dot, he's willing to engage the opposition physically, will drop the gloves. But those are all the on-ice things.

What I like about him is the drive, the determination, the never-quit. Anytime I've seen him drop the gloves, it's usually been to protect his teammates. He's always the first in the scrum, the first guy there to shove back if one of his linemates has been shoved down. Off the ice, he seems to have a good head on his shoulders, seems to understand that for all the ups, there will be down. I think he could wear a letter at some point in time.

But yes, his numbers in his draft year, specifically the second half and the playoffs, were likely inflated due to Voracek. I know, I had a front row seat for that. But he didn't get the chance to build off that at all in the next season because of the concussion and the troubles that followed. But he can't really be blamed for that and neither can Anaheim for picking him where they did. No one knew what the future held.

He's only shown flashes of what he can do since then. With Rimouski, he's been asked to take a smaller role, behind their big guns like Cormier, Caron, Cornet and Veilleux and he's done so without complaining and by doing what he can to help the team succeed.

He might never be more then a complementary player offensively and maybe he won't end up being better then Max Pacioretty (who is commonly brought up as the "other option"), but I still believe he'll be a useful NHL player in the future. It's a case of playing the hand that's dealt and while MacMillan might never be the player you all want him to be, he could still be a player.

Kevin Forbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 07:55 PM
  #70
Pwnasaurus
Registered User
 
Pwnasaurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Robot City
Country: United States
Posts: 6,143
vCash: 500
I have a good friend who lives in Peterborough and I figured he'd be as good as anyone to tell me about Kassian since he's had season tickets and has done some work with the team in some capacity since the 80's...here's is the e-mail he sent me:

Kassian is a great kid, strong on the puck and likes to chuck 'em as well as score. Part of that might be that he's a bit stronger than most of the OHL competition, at this stage I'd say he's not NHL or even AHL ready but a) I'm no scout and b) I really hope he does make it so to say right now that he's pro material would be biased of me anyway. That being said, I've looked at the draft rankings and thought he'd be a great late first round pick for someone, then I had a look through previous drafts and saw tons of names from 25 to 35 that I recognized but they really didn't amount to much in the show. Time will tell, he is big and strong, has a wicked release, plays mean, likes to scrap, but, takes the stupid penalty way too often.

In a nutshell, great kid, good head on his shoulders, gritty, fights when he doesn't have to be the fighter and is mature beyond his age. Downside, takes stupid penalties, tries to pull your arm out of its socket when he shakes your hand, an almost typical high school big jock with a bit of a caveman side to him. He just happens to excel at hockey, not shot put.



Stupid penalties? He'll fit right in.

Pwnasaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 07:58 PM
  #71
Talentless Practise*
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,244
vCash: 500
I'm no scout but seems insane to me to spend a mid-first rounder for a player whose tools can only be described with "decent" and "average". Is attitude really the only thing MacMillan is "good" at?

Talentless Practise* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 08:03 PM
  #72
Spankatola Jamnuts*
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ...sucka?
Country: United States
Posts: 10,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes View Post
He's a two way guy, has a decent shot, decent skating ability, average offensive skills, solid defensive abilities, above average in the faceoff dot, he's willing to engage the opposition physically, will drop the gloves. But those are all the on-ice things.

What I like about him is the drive, the determination, the never-quit. Anytime I've seen him drop the gloves, it's usually been to protect his teammates. He's always the first in the scrum, the first guy there to shove back if one of his linemates has been shoved down. Off the ice, he seems to have a good head on his shoulders, seems to understand that for all the ups, there will be down. I think he could wear a letter at some point in time.

But yes, his numbers in his draft year, specifically the second half and the playoffs, were likely inflated due to Voracek. I know, I had a front row seat for that. But he didn't get the chance to build off that at all in the next season because of the concussion and the troubles that followed. But he can't really be blamed for that and neither can Anaheim for picking him where they did. No one knew what the future held.

He's only shown flashes of what he can do since then. With Rimouski, he's been asked to take a smaller role, behind their big guns like Cormier, Caron, Cornet and Veilleux and he's done so without complaining and by doing what he can to help the team succeed.

He might never be more then a complementary player offensively and maybe he won't end up being better then Max Pacioretty (who is commonly brought up as the "other option"), but I still believe he'll be a useful NHL player in the future. It's a case of playing the hand that's dealt and while MacMillan might never be the player you all want him to be, he could still be a player.
I don't think anyone said he couldn't be a player at all. But the words you chose says it yourself. He sounds like...I dunno, like he had maybe Ian Laperriere or Brian Skrudland potential. Useful players, maybe even necessary players, but not someone you'd like to see hit the podium in the 1st round.

Spankatola Jamnuts* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 09:23 PM
  #73
Randall Graves*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 18,621
vCash: 500
any possibility of trading up? I'd love to get Schroeder he really should be a top 5 pick but he's being wildly overlooked

Randall Graves* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 09:35 PM
  #74
Kevin Forbes
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
I'm no scout but seems insane to me to spend a mid-first rounder for a player whose tools can only be described with "decent" and "average". Is attitude really the only thing MacMillan is "good" at?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spankatola Jamnuts View Post
I don't think anyone said he couldn't be a player at all. But the words you chose says it yourself. He sounds like...I dunno, like he had maybe Ian Laperriere or Brian Skrudland potential. Useful players, maybe even necessary players, but not someone you'd like to see hit the podium in the 1st round.
At the time of the draft, he looked like he could be much more. I definitely thought he would be much more. But the concussion and missing two months of hockey the year after he was drafted took an incredible toll at such a crucial point in his development. So I guess part of what you're seeing is projection, whereas the Ducks drafted him with the assumption that what they saw in the second half and in the playoffs was a sign of things to come and he would continue to improve and so far that hasn't been the case.

I don't know how fair it is to completely write him off as he still very well could become the player he was envisioned as becoming, just for right now, injuries and situations have limited that opportunity.

Kevin Forbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-18-2009, 11:35 PM
  #75
Spankatola Jamnuts*
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ...sucka?
Country: United States
Posts: 10,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes View Post
At the time of the draft, he looked like he could be much more. I definitely thought he would be much more. But the concussion and missing two months of hockey the year after he was drafted took an incredible toll at such a crucial point in his development. So I guess part of what you're seeing is projection, whereas the Ducks drafted him with the assumption that what they saw in the second half and in the playoffs was a sign of things to come and he would continue to improve and so far that hasn't been the case.

I don't know how fair it is to completely write him off as he still very well could become the player he was envisioned as becoming, just for right now, injuries and situations have limited that opportunity.
Fair enough. I'll take your word for how he looked before.

Spankatola Jamnuts* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:53 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.