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Is Gainey the problem?

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Old
02-12-2009, 10:49 AM
  #276
Jigger77
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Originally Posted by smon View Post
Let's not forget other luminaries such as Dustin Brown, Jeff Carter, Zach Parise and Mike Richards.
Indeed.

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Old
02-12-2009, 10:57 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Well, I don't think whoever thought this could have been more wrong.

To me that says something about the people who thought this and who are payed to know this stuff.

How long have we needed a big center in Montreal? There he was, we let him slip away when he was right there for the picking.

6'4", 221lbs, 242 points in 272 NHL games, 1 Stanley Cup. +64


And it's not too early to tell anymore.
18 other teams seem to agree with what i said given they also passed on getzlaf (and based on the fact that "any team in the league would love to have him" they also felt it was too risky)

if you really want to make it more interesting.. 48 teams passed on shea weber. 48.. 46 on matt carle, 44 on patrice bergeron..

hindsight is 20/20. hence why pascal said what he did and i agree.. yeah it'd have been great to draft getzlaf or weber but IF getzlaf was indeed thought to have attitude problems and those were true, then we'd have wasted the pick. drafting isnt a science.

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02-12-2009, 10:58 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
What patience?..

I don't know if you noticed, but there hasn't been any big trades since the lockout during the year except around deadline.

Gainey is clearly in talks, as we've seen with the Vinny situation, but it's just not that simple to make a trade anymore.
yeah right

just like he was interested in hossa and gaborik

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02-12-2009, 10:59 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Streit wanted to resign at the latest around xmas. After that, seeing he was having a good season, he decided to wait until UFA.
I know this because I know the girl he went out with for the 3years he was here.

I have the privilege to know this as a FACT, so no, I don't need to get a clue.

Yea, resigning him earlier would have been nice, but Streit was bad defensively with us and he wanted a guarantee he'd be used as a regular D.
If Streit was solid in his own end on top of having the solid point shot, you can be sure he'd still be with us.
yep and my cousins brothers uncles sister told me that Streit prefered to wait until the end of the season like any normal player with an AGENT would tell him to do !
he got his pay raise and thats what he deserved, he is gone now so what difference does it make anyway ?

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02-12-2009, 10:59 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by 3TB3 View Post
yeah right

just like he was interested in hossa and gaborik
gaborik would be really awesome on the LTIR right now.. i hear he can score from mulder's office.. top titty baby.

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02-12-2009, 11:01 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
What is dumb is one-line posts with no argument at all. What is your argument?
Nobody was thinking about the "New NHL" at 2003 draft, they took what they thought was the BPA, and at the time it looked good. They knew his health problems were behind him and went for him. Yeah, in hindsight it looks not as good now, but what the hell can you do to change the past? Andrei is still pretty young too, who knows how much further he's going to develop, but there's definitely room there, he's by no means a write-off or can be said to have hit his max yet.

Let's stack the Habs with the help of a time-machine!

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02-12-2009, 11:03 AM
  #282
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When things get this bad they start looking at the GM to react...its time for Gainey to do something because everything has been tried at the ice level.

Gainey has to show some life...

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02-12-2009, 11:04 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by preston View Post
Nobody was thinking about the "New NHL" at 2003 draft, they took what they thought was the BPA, and at the time it looked good. They knew his health problems were behind him and went for him. Yeah, in hindsight it looks not as good now, but what the hell can you do to change the past? Andrei is still pretty young too, who knows how much further he's going to develop, but there's definitely room there, he's by no means a write-off or can be said to have hit his max yet.

Let's stack the Habs with the help of a time-machine!
It's not about changing the past, it's about learning from mistakes.

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02-12-2009, 11:05 AM
  #284
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I think that I've somewhat proven that Gainey is not to blame, but since this thread is turning into what he should do to get things fixed, allow me to suggest the following:

  1. Get rid of a majority of the Russian contingent. It seems to be anonymous around the team that there seems to be cliques on the team and this is what's killing this team. There's the Koivu group and the Kovalev group. We have too many Russians and if they decide not to play because Mr. Kovy isn't happy, we're screwed. Trade Kovalev and the Kostitsyn brothers and that should do it.

  2. In international play, Canada is the dominant force at every level. Why do we insist in bringing in European players? Now we're loading up on American players. What country is a proven winner? Who's better known for its heart and dedication, two things that the coach is desperately trying to instate on his team to no avail? Draft and trade for quality Canadian players and you'll notice a difference. Anaheim's Cup winning team comes to mind. They weren't all Canadian by any means, but they did have a majority from our nation.


So it's not time to give up on the season but by trading the players mentioned above, we should be getting a good bang for our buck and still remain competitive. Blow it up Bob, it's not working!

Oh and fire Melanson...

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02-12-2009, 11:06 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
It's not about changing the past, it's about learning from mistakes.
you dont think a player who's said to have "attitude problems" is not worth taking a risk on at #10 overall?

one could even argue not taking a player with attitude problems is a form of learning...

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02-12-2009, 11:06 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by sandman08 View Post
18 other teams seem to agree with what i said given they also passed on getzlaf (and based on the fact that "any team in the league would love to have him" they also felt it was too risky)

if you really want to make it more interesting.. 48 teams passed on shea weber. 48.. 46 on matt carle, 44 on patrice bergeron..

hindsight is 20/20. hence why pascal said what he did and i agree.. yeah it'd have been great to draft getzlaf or weber but IF getzlaf was indeed thought to have attitude problems and those were true, then we'd have wasted the pick. drafting isnt a science.
I agree that hindsight is 20/20 to an extent. But are you saying they made the right move by skipping Getzlaf to draft Kostitsyn?

Sure there are exceptions. But why for example does Detroit ALWAYS draft world class players even in the late rounds? Are they really lucky evey year?

And Pascal, well, he still hasn't given any substance to this thread other than a backhanded insult to me. You can disagree with a guy but calling his opinion dumb and not even making a slight effort at explaining why is not worth my time.

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Old
02-12-2009, 11:10 AM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preston View Post
Nobody was thinking about the "New NHL" at 2003 draft, they took what they thought was the BPA, and at the time it looked good. They knew his health problems were behind him and went for him. Yeah, in hindsight it looks not as good now, but what the hell can you do to change the past? Andrei is still pretty young too, who knows how much further he's going to develop, but there's definitely room there, he's by no means a write-off or can be said to have hit his max yet.

Let's stack the Habs with the help of a time-machine!
Hey, I completely agree. We don't have a time machine and at the time the decision looked "ok".

But it doesn't change the fact that they made a mistake not drafting the guy. Of course you can't go and fix it now.

And like nittany so eloquently pointed out.

"It's not about changing the past, it's about learning from your mistakes".

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02-12-2009, 11:11 AM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couz View Post
When things get this bad they start looking at the GM to react...its time for Gainey to do something because everything has been tried at the ice level.

Gainey has to show some life...
bob won't do squat, he won't trade when this team on a high, now low, what can he do

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Old
02-12-2009, 11:13 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by sampollock View Post
bob won't do squat, he won't trade when this team on a high, now low, what can he do
Agreed, Gainey's infamous "patience" that everyone praises has burnt him.

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02-12-2009, 11:17 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by sandman08 View Post
you dont think a player who's said to have "attitude problems" is not worth taking a risk on at #10 overall?

one could even argue not taking a player with attitude problems is a form of learning...
Problem is, they didn't just miss on Getzlaf - it's the otherguys that have turned out to be great. Burns, Parise, Richards, Carter, Perry etc.

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02-12-2009, 11:21 AM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Problem is, they didn't just miss on Getzlaf - it's the otherguys that have turned out to be great. Burns, Parise, Richards, Carter, Perry etc.
While I do agree 'cause I had Getzlaf as my #1 choice and Parise as my #2, I can bet you that a Kostitsyn surrounded by leaders and better teamates would be a 35-goal scorer. Kostitysn is by no means a leader like Parisť, Getzlaf, Richards and so on, but I'm still pretty sure he'd be a damn good complimentary player.

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02-12-2009, 11:22 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
What is dumb is one-line posts with no argument at all. What is your argument?
He doesn't have to argument..

It's quite easy to look back now and say we should have drafted X instead of Y.
Getzlav was drafted 24th. Bergeron was drafted 45th. Shea Weber 49th, Pavelski 205th, Shane O'Brien 250th.

In 2004, I'll skip the first round, Booth 53th, Dubinski 60th, Krejci 63rd, Franzen 97th..

Every year, there's a bunch of players missed by 29 teams, quite easy to look back now and say how we wrong.

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02-12-2009, 11:23 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
While I do agree 'cause I had Getzlaf as my #1 choice and Parise as my #2, I can bet you that a Kostitsyn surrounded by leaders and better teamates would be a 35-goal scorer. Kostitysn is by no means a leader like Parisť, Getzlaf, Richards and so on, but I'm still pretty sure he'd be a damn good complimentary player.
AND back to the point, that habs don't have a top #1 centre, and 2 other 80 pt players, to make the kids better

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02-12-2009, 11:28 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by HotHabsFan View Post
yep and my cousins brothers uncles sister told me that Streit prefered to wait until the end of the season like any normal player with an AGENT would tell him to do !
he got his pay raise and thats what he deserved, he is gone now so what difference does it make anyway ?
If you don't want to believe me, and jump in a conversation not knowing what it is we're talking about..You should maybe restrain yourself from writing anything.

I was responding to someone that said for a fact Streit would have signed anytime prior to July 1st.
I said after xmas, it was over and he was aiming UFA.

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02-12-2009, 11:30 AM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
I agree that hindsight is 20/20 to an extent. But are you saying they made the right move by skipping Getzlaf to draft Kostitsyn?

Sure there are exceptions. But why for example does Detroit ALWAYS draft world class players even in the late rounds? Are they really lucky evey year?

And Pascal, well, he still hasn't given any substance to this thread other than a backhanded insult to me. You can disagree with a guy but calling his opinion dumb and not even making a slight effort at explaining why is not worth my time.
how can i possibly answer that now in an honest fashion without taking into account what has happened since then?
how can anyone honestly say that? (unless they have proof or whatever.. btw im not referring to you whitesnake)

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02-12-2009, 11:31 AM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
If you don't want to believe me, and jump in a conversation not knowing what it is we're talking about..You should maybe restrain yourself from writing anything.

I was responding to someone that said for a fact Streit would have signed anytime prior to July 1st.
I said after xmas, it was over and he was aiming UFA.

your right we DON'T ! you are basing all this on whats going on in your head, you have no inside info. You know nothing about what Streit and his agent were thinking and dealing with BG.

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02-12-2009, 11:34 AM
  #297
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Originally Posted by HotHabsFan View Post
your right we DON'T ! you are basing all this on whats going on in your head, you have no inside info. You know nothing about what Streit and his agent were thinking and dealing with BG.
how do you whats going on inside his head?

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02-12-2009, 11:39 AM
  #298
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
What is dumb is one-line posts with no argument at all. What is your argument?
It's a dumb argument because it's a ****** way to evaluate scouting departments. EVERY teams will end up picking the wrong player in insight in a given draft - in fact they will end up picking the wrong player way more often than the right one! So it's completely useless to look at specific instances and base your conclusion on that.

Here's another way to look at it: would it make sense to say that Ovechkin is a bad scorer because one time I saw him shoot at the net but Price ended up blocking the shot? Everyone would find such an argument completely ridiculous, because a typical player will shoot way more often than he'll score. That's why a scorer is evaluated on it's aggregate results - how many goals he has scored in a season, or in his career.

The same way that the only way we can evaluate the habs draft scouting is by the aggregate: for example, how many players drafted by Timmins or Gainey have made the NHL compared to other teams? And when you look at it this way, it becomes very obvious that we are one of the top drafting team in the league.

If some of you still don't get it, here's another experiment: in your opinion, which franchises have the best scouting departments? For every one of these teams, I'm sure I'll be able to find obvious instances where they picked a player when another, much better player (in insight) was also available. Does it mean they also suck?

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02-12-2009, 11:40 AM
  #299
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Originally Posted by sandman08 View Post
how do you whats going on inside his head?
this is true. my bad !

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02-12-2009, 11:40 AM
  #300
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I wonder if Gillette has called BG recently and asked him what the hell is going on with this team. Personally, I think that BG is really trying to find a good dance partner to trade with but to no avail.

I love my Habs, however it’s really hard to be a proud fan with this current situation. Furthermore, Habs will either make or barely make the playoffs this season only to get knocked out in the first or second round. During this coming off-season, the Habs will draft somewhere past 10th overall? As for the UFA’s, again it’s frustrating when good players (star caliber) nowadays don’t even look at Montreal as an option to sign with because of many reasons most of us know, unless they are at the end of their career.

That all been said, I would think that BG does not have it easy either; would another GM do a better job in Montreal?

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