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What would your team give up for Bouwmeester?

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Old
02-10-2009, 04:05 PM
  #1
Opus
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What would your team give up for Bouwmeester?

Assuming the Panthers move him, what would you fork over to aquire his services/rights?

Flyers - Lupul, Jones/Carle, JVR, 1st

Note: We'd have to be able to sign him for me to be okay with Holmgren giving this much.


Last edited by Opus: 02-10-2009 at 04:15 PM.
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02-10-2009, 04:14 PM
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Le Tricolore
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Habs - Assuming we could sign him beyond this season, I could see Gainey parting with one of Subban or McDonagh, a 1st rounder then Plekanec or Higgins.

If it's as a rental, I don't see Montreal being in talks with the Panthers with the way the season's been turning out.

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02-10-2009, 04:18 PM
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HockeyThoughts
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I've seen that proposal made before and it seems like your paying too much.

Joffrey Lupul - Good top 6 winger, shown he can get it done in the past (28goals), is on pace for 25-25 this year. Signed at 4.25M for another 4 years after this one.

Randy Jones - Is a cap dump, but if its Carle thats another huge piece signed long term.

JVR - Top prospect, drafted #2 in 2007. Is #5 on HFutures top 50. Ranked behind, Stamkos, Price, Turris and Doughty, all of whom have made the NHL therefore making him #1. In my eyes he has the potential to come in and perform just as Bobby Ryan has. Similar to Ryan, powerforwards take longer to develop, but he will make a huge impact in the next few years.

16-30 1st rounder - A mid to high first round pick in a deep draft.

Although the potential of;
Bouwmeester-Timonen
Coburn-Carle
Sbisa-Parent

Looks incredible for the present and future, I think giving up that many pieces may prove damaging in the future. Although with Carter, Richards, Hartnell, Gagne and Briere all signed long term I don't know what to think anymore

Do you think any team could realistically top this? Montreal maybe?

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02-10-2009, 04:25 PM
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It is a lot, but it's not everyday your team has a chance to aquire a 25 year old, 6'4" 215 lb perennial norris trophy candidate.

The Flyers have tremendous depth up front and could afford to spare Lupul IMO. He get's replaced with Giroux on a full time basis. No biggie.

Jones or Carle replace the void on defense.

JVR - That's the key piece of the puzzle if you ask me. Would it be difficult to give him up, sure. I think from the Flyers standpoint though, they need to win now...not in 3-4 years when JVR is ready to contribute.

JBo (proven) > JVR (what if)

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02-10-2009, 04:30 PM
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It is a lot, but it's not everyday your team has a chance to aquire a 25 year old, 6'4" 215 lb perennial norris trophy candidate.

The Flyers have tremendous depth up front and could afford to spare Lupul IMO. He get's replaced with Giroux on a full time basis. No biggie.

Jones or Carle replace the void on defense.

JVR - That's the key piece of the puzzle if you ask me. Would it be difficult to give him up, sure. I think from the Flyers standpoint though, they need to win now...not in 3-4 years when JVR is ready to contribute.

JBo (proven) > JVR (what if)
You do realize when you label someone with the tag "perennial Norris trophy candidate", that means he's been nominated, like top three for years already, right?

However, his value is, and should be high, even as a rental.

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02-10-2009, 04:33 PM
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I could see the Caps offering:

Shaone Morrisonn
Any propsect not named Varlamov, Carlson or Alzner
2009 1st round pick
(+ no re-signing contingency)

Morrisonn gives the Cats a young, NHL established defensive defensemen who has played 20+ minutes per game in the NHL as recently as last year. He is an arbitration eligible RFA. So, that both fills JoBo's roster slot (and a lot of his minutes) in the short-term and allows Florida the flexibility to keep Morrisson or get rid of him after the season, depending on what they want to do. The Caps have a really deep system with high quality prospects at all positions so they can definitely pull some value there. And the 1st rounder speaks for itself.

Recognizing that it is generally a non-starter to consider a major trade within a division, there are a couple reasons why this one at least seems remotely plausible. First, Florida is chasing the #8 seed while the Caps are 14 points up in the division and coasting. The two teams aren't really in competition at this point. And, since Boston has locked down the #1, it is pretty unlikely that the Caps will ever meet the Panthers in the playoffs. Second, the Caps may be one of the few teams willing to offer a credible roster player, a top prospect and a 1st round pick without some sort of re-signing contingency in the deal. We probably don't have the cap space to re-sign him anyway. That, is in of itself the third reason-- it's very unlikely the Caps would even be a serious bidder for JBo's UFA services, so Florida doesn't have to worry about playing him 6 times a year.

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02-10-2009, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opus View Post
Assuming the Panthers move him, what would you fork over to aquire his services/rights?

Flyers - Lupul, Jones/Carle, JVR, 1st

Note: We'd have to be able to sign him for me to be okay with Holmgren giving this much.
Assuming J-Bo comes with an extension, I don't have any problems with that. Would rather move Jones than Carle, obviously.

Its a steep price, but defenseman like J-Bo at his age aren't available every day.

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02-10-2009, 05:05 PM
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Assuming J-Bo comes with an extension, I don't have any problems with that. Would rather move Jones than Carle, obviously.

Its a steep price, but defenseman like J-Bo at his age aren't available every day.
Yeah totally. I would offer up Jones first, and would then settle for Carle if need be.

The key though, as we both said...is resigning him.

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02-10-2009, 05:07 PM
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Assuming J-Bo comes with an extension, I don't have any problems with that. Would rather move Jones than Carle, obviously.

Its a steep price, but defenseman like J-Bo at his age aren't available every day.
Are there any recent examples of a high-profile future UFA negotiating an extension at the trade deadline? I know I've seen it in the offseason, but I can't immediately recall a player negotiating with another team during the middle of the season. Are we even 100% sure that it is permissible for those negotiations to occur at all?

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02-10-2009, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
Are there any recent examples of a high-profile future UFA negotiating an extension at the trade deadline? I know I've seen it in the offseason, but I can't immediately recall a player negotiating with another team during the middle of the season. Are we even 100% sure that it is permissible for those negotiations to occur at all?
I'd imagine it would be a sign and trade.

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02-10-2009, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
Are there any recent examples of a high-profile future UFA negotiating an extension at the trade deadline? I know I've seen it in the offseason, but I can't immediately recall a player negotiating with another team during the middle of the season. Are we even 100% sure that it is permissible for those negotiations to occur at all?
I can't remember any, nor do I know if it is permitted. But to give up that kind of package, there would have to be some kind of agreement to an extension (even if its a handshake type thing).

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02-10-2009, 05:15 PM
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I'd imagine it would be a sign and trade.
Same question. Can you recall a single example of a sign-and-trade in mid-season? And is it permissible for another team to have input on Florida's contract negotiations with JBo? Remember, Philly isn't exactly rolling in 09-10 cap space, so they would be willing to blindly sign off on any contract Florida happened to negotiate. And JBo isn't likely to sign a contract with the Panthers based on a non-binding promise that he'll be traded.

Even assuming it's legal, I do not think it is plausible for any sort of final deal to be a contingency to a deadline trade. Far far far more likely is a contingent trade (FLA gets X + Y now, and Z as well if/when JBo re-signs). But Philly is never going to deal JVR for a rental. And I don't know if you can make a specific prospect a contingency.

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02-10-2009, 05:19 PM
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Same question. Can you recall a single example of a sign-and-trade in mid-season? And is it permissible for another team to have input on Florida's contract negotiations with JBo? Remember, Philly isn't exactly rolling in 09-10 cap space, so they would be willing to blindly sign off on any contract Florida happened to negotiate. And JBo isn't likely to sign a contract with the Panthers based on a non-binding promise that he'll be traded.

Even assuming it's legal, I do not think it is plausible for any sort of final deal to be a contingency to a deadline trade. Far far far more likely is a contingent trade (FLA gets X + Y now, and Z as well if/when JBo re-signs). But Philly is never going to deal JVR for a rental. And I don't know if you can make a specific prospect a contingency.
I can't, no. You could very well be right CWU.

Probably a better question for Irish Blues. He'd get us an answer.

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02-10-2009, 05:37 PM
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I think thats overpayment for Jbo.

Id do Lupul + Jones + Nodl

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02-10-2009, 05:43 PM
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Id do Lupul + Jones + Nodl
Yea, but Florida wouldn't

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02-10-2009, 06:05 PM
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Pronger ( with a hart) got Lupul, Smid and 2 conditional firsts. I will not pay more than that. Ill give florida a conditional first if we make the finals

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02-10-2009, 06:20 PM
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Pronger ( with a hart) got Lupul, Smid and 2 conditional firsts. I will not pay more than that. Ill give florida a conditional first if we make the finals
Agreed, I would make that kind of trade for a true veteran like Pronger. JBo is a fantastic player but can he contribute like a Pronger in the playoffs is the question.

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02-10-2009, 07:16 PM
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Pronger ( with a hart) got Lupul, Smid and 2 conditional firsts. I will not pay more than that. Ill give florida a conditional first if we make the finals
Add in the fact he was coming off a ridiculous playoff run, where he carried a cinderella team as far as it would go..Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals. 21pts in 24gp, by a defenceman on a mediocre playoff team.

Yeah, I'll take that over Bouwmeester.

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02-10-2009, 07:33 PM
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Pronger ( with a hart) got Lupul, Smid and 2 conditional firsts. I will not pay more than that. Ill give florida a conditional first if we make the finals
True, but at the time, Lupul was on a cheap contract coming of a 25 goal season. He hasn't improved all that much, if at all, and is scheduled to make $4.25M starting next year.

Smid was a top-level defensive prospect at the time. Jones is an overpaid 3rd pairing defenseman who is essentially a contract dump.

Add in the fact that J-Bo is 25 yrs old (Pronger was 32 at the time of the trade) and still improving.

From a Florida standpoint, I don't see any way a 2nd line winger (who will be overpaid), a 3rd pairing defenseman (who is overpaid) and a prospect that is not elite are enough to land Bouwmeester, whether or not anyone believes he's the impact player that Pronger is.

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02-10-2009, 07:45 PM
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Well Jbo is quickly becoming the most overrated D man in the league

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02-10-2009, 08:54 PM
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Pronger wasnt a UFA JBO is. JBO would get a huge return if he had a contract to go with him.

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Old
02-10-2009, 08:55 PM
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Well Jbo is quickly becoming the most overrated D man in the league
Yes and no. He is certainly hyped. However, you have to look at his age, current skillset, and anticipated ceiling.

I think that's what gets a lot of people interested. I have heard people compare his skating ability [currently] to being better than Niedermayer [at JBo's current age]. He's got the great breakout pass. He can shoot, has good hands, and is big. He has still yet to fully utilize his size.

Him and McCabe have combined to give Florida the most goals by defensemen for the league.

I just look at him, and drool over the idea of him in a Devils Jersey. We have taken fringe Dmen and made them solid. Mottau is a solid 6th Dman. Johnny Oduya is a great #3, possibly future #2 Dman. Imagine what happens if they get a young, still rough around the edges talent in JBo.

I'll try to think of what to offer them. But their defense is pretty solid without him. Zajac would be a starting point, but Florida has decent center depth. It looks like they could use some help on RW. Not sure NJ has too much to offer outside of Bergfors, Green as a replacement D, and I guess Zajac

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02-10-2009, 09:19 PM
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I would like to know what people think the kind of money J-Bo would demand for his next contract. Are we talking 5 mil, 6 mil, more?

If you think about it from a Flyers' standpoint, Lupul is set to make a little over 4 and Jones makes a little over 2. So there's 6 mil right there that they could have for J-Bo if an agreement were to be made before the hypothetical trade occurred. But then you have the problem of having 7 or 8 players eating up more than half of the cap space when you have to do something about both goalies next year, as well as a top 6 forward (Knuble being an UFA), and maybe another defenseman (Vaananen being an UFA). If JVR would be included in the trade, there goes a cheap plugger in the top 9.

You have to look at it two ways from the Flyers' standpoint:

They trade Lupul, Jones,+ for J-Bo but are unable to resign him. Then next year, there is some lacking depth in every position for the team.

They trade Lupul, Jones,+ for J-Bo and then resign him for about 6 mil. Then next year, the team is handcuffed with all of the other signings they need to make in the offseason, but have pretty good defensive depth.

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02-10-2009, 09:32 PM
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Panthers are set with wingers, I don't know where Lupul would fit. Martin has said he's looking for a center, likely one to play with Booth, Horton, or Zednik as Weiss has had great chemistry with Stillman and Frolik.

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02-10-2009, 09:41 PM
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I would like to know what people think the kind of money J-Bo would demand for his next contract. Are we talking 5 mil, 6 mil, more?

If you think about it from a Flyers' standpoint, Lupul is set to make a little over 4 and Jones makes a little over 2. So there's 6 mil right there that they could have for J-Bo if an agreement were to be made before the hypothetical trade occurred. But then you have the problem of having 7 or 8 players eating up more than half of the cap space when you have to do something about both goalies next year, as well as a top 6 forward (Knuble being an UFA), and maybe another defenseman (Vaananen being an UFA). If JVR would be included in the trade, there goes a cheap plugger in the top 9.

You have to look at it two ways from the Flyers' standpoint:

They trade Lupul, Jones,+ for J-Bo but are unable to resign him. Then next year, there is some lacking depth in every position for the team.

They trade Lupul, Jones,+ for J-Bo and then resign him for about 6 mil. Then next year, the team is handcuffed with all of the other signings they need to make in the offseason, but have pretty good defensive depth.

I agree. I believe a lot of people under estimate the value of a really good player on his entry level deal. That's when you can take advantage of building a team when you have those"pluggers" as you called them to build around. Just like the Pens had Staal,Crosby and Malkin. Unfortunately they are nearing the not so fun part where all three are making the big bucks.

But if you're going to acquire a guy and sign him for a big contract you need those 850K rookies and sophomores who are valuable to your team. If they aren't on an entry level deal, 850K won't give you much on the streets these days.



A lot of Pens fans want Whitney gone and for the past year I've heard rumblings that Staal would be traded for Horton. Unrealistically the Pens could trade Staal and Whitney to Florida for J-Bo and Horton.

I know that's unrealistic in so many ways but those two guys would really benefit statistically by playing around guys like Gonchar,Malkin and Crosby.

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