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Old
02-11-2009, 11:43 AM
  #26
Trxjw
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Obviously this team isn't going to be an offensive powerhouse anytime in the near future, but last in the league in goals scored per game? Really? Are we that bad? Is our PP still even in the double digits?

I think one of the reasons this team gives up so many high scoring chances is because the game plan is extremely haphazard. Most of the our offensive players are focusing so hard on trying not to make defensive mistakes that they probably already forget what offense is. Eventually they break down mentally and we see games like the one in Montreal and NJ where you have 5 players out of there that look like they completely forgot how to play elementary hockey. It's just sad
I think the answer to that question is "maybe", leaning towards "yes". We're a great defensive team (98% of the time anyway), but we're a very poor offensive team. Lots of people say this team is hampered by the system, but never name names when it comes to "who" is being hampered.

The great, or even good teams in this league have one thing this team sorely lacks, and that's scoring depth. This team has a few scorers, but we're missing that impact forward that allows those depth forwards to create more offense. We have one top-line forward, and he's still trying to reach his potential. That's it. No team is built-to-win when we're lacking 2 of 4 top-six wingers.

I won't argue for a minute that this system isn't "defense first", but I don't believe that a commitment to defense has to limit offense. Detroit, San Jose, Dallas and Jersey all have a very strong commitment to their own end, but every one of them has the offensive talent to go with it. When it comes to the Rangers, we simply don't have the talent to finish the play. We have one guy who is seriously dangerous when the puck is on his blade, and that's Zherdev. Naslund is a great shooter, but he doesn't have the moves to create space for himself. Three guys on this team have scored 30+ goals in their career. One of them was Gomez, and we all know that was an anomaly for him. The other two were Naslund and Drury. Drury benefited greatly from playing on a phenomenal power-play in Buffalo, and Naslund hasn't scored 30+ since 05-06.

So my question is: Who exactly is going to start over-achieving because he doesn't have to focus on defense?

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02-11-2009, 12:47 PM
  #27
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trx...

You may want to amend your 98% statement to around 75%. The team is 8th in goals against; dead last in goals for - tied with Ottawa. They are 22nd in the differential.

Want to make scoring better without affecting the defense? Figure out the PP. Right there is the difference for this team to be a bit more respectable in these stat categories. It's 27th in the league. While we keep stating the Rangers are short on talent, but are they that short on talent? We keep talking about how great the Rangers' head coach is (and yes, I put him directly responsible for the PP), and would the talent + a top 5 coach = a top 10 PP? Something doesn't add up.

Want help on the PP? top unit: Drury-Gomez-Zherdev; Second unit: Naslund-Dubi-Zherdev, with Naslund coming on the ice before Gomez comes off and Zherdev playing about 1:15-1:30 of each PP. Drury is this team's best PP scoring left winger. Naslund is this team's second best. Zherdev is this team's best puckhandler and playmaker - a guy who's skills are meant to play inside the blueline more than on the rush. That should net a couple goals.

A more risky way of adding goals because I cannot guarantee goals against will remain constant would be to finally put Zherdev with the team's top offensive talent instead of floating the boat of a third liner higher. Make a third line that is a third line, finally. Give Drury a bit more talent to play with (Cally, although I still see third liner in him, but it's better than Korps). And finally create a third line with third liners, which includes Korps. Forget the offensive balance - it's not working.

There, that should do it. Now all Renney has to do is implement and do everything else he's doing exactly the same.

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Old
02-11-2009, 02:46 PM
  #28
Jeds2StepOpus
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
I'm completely okay with firing both. However I think it's unjust to s***can only Renney when Sather holds as much responsibility.
Oh make no mistake, I firmly believe they both need to be moved along.

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02-11-2009, 03:38 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
(except when the whole team is breaking down and the defensemen freak out and do stupid stuff).
LOL. For some reason, this reminded me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4-zpIsfq38

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Old
02-11-2009, 11:09 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
it's close to impossible.

Without saying that Drury and Gomez flat-out suck, which really isn't the case, what GM in their right mind would want to take Drury or Gomez at the current contract (forget about NMCs or NTCs for the moment)? Now, compound the possibility of a cap that, at best, stays the same but likely falls by some amount, and it makes matters even worse. On a good day another GM doesn't take their contracts. Unfortuntely both are support players, and both were paid like top line players, and unfortunately, you don't sign both of them if you drafted right over the last 6-7 years.
If there was a GM that had a spot that could be filled perfectly with one of these guys, then you would still have to take salary back. Hopefully the salary taken back either helps you or could be flipped to another team who likes that player.

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Old
02-12-2009, 10:44 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Brought a tear to my eye.
Exactly....not Renny's fault.
The Rangers play boring because that is the only chance they have to win.

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Old
02-13-2009, 12:55 AM
  #32
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[QUOTE=BringUpBobby;17856305]Nah, I think most people had no idea what the Rangers were going to do this season. Everyone likes to say 'well they lost Jagr, Straka, Shanahan, and Avery' and while that is true, it's not like this team was a scoring machine in 07-08. Bottom line is everyone knew there was going to be a ton of turnover and when that happened, I don't know how you could expect anything.

Most people had no idea what the Rangers were going to do in 05-06. And that's why I think we are where we are right now. The Straka, Nylander and Jagr line had to be one of the greatest lines we've had, at least if it was only for just one season. The line was also doing great in 06-07 but I remember especially, toward the end of the season, every Ranger fan was begging for at least one more center to give us a legitimate shot in the playoffs. We tried Straka at center. It had hardly no effect on the Jagr line because Hossa's whole entire game elevated when he was playing with Jagr and Nylander. The problem was. Straka's line was not doing so well. So he wound up having to go back to his old line and so did Hossa. Of course, Hossa was struggling again. But what was the biggest complaint in Ranger world that year? We didn't have a first line center and for a second line center, Nylander was doing a good job.

Even when we got Shannahan, he put up great numbers but then even he was a problem for many fans because they thought he was too slow, old and come playoff time, too tired as well. So despite having a taste of the playoffs and then making it as far as the second round of the playoffs in 07' and fans craving for a second line center, what did Sather do? He went out and got two second line centers because he felt that first of all, Nylander was not what anyone would consider a first line center anyway and secondly, Slats thought he was getting too old and was losing some of that agility and durability.

Now we are in 07-08 and Sather let an aging second line center go for two second line centers. The team was still built around two people. We wanted to get as far as we could in the playoffs because we still had our superstar in Jaromir Jagr and a pleasant surprise since post lock out in Henrik Lundqvist. But neither Gomez nor Drury, despite being as good as even a young Nylander, never meshed well with Jagr. Luckily Dubinsky did.
Jagr ditched the NHL for the KHL and this is the team we have.

I feel like all a long Slats has been trying to fill the voids that fans wanted but now we're at the point we're at and Sather is the problem. I don't think Sather was lying in the off season when he said Jagr was his main priority. But he couldn't get him back. So Slats had to turn to plans B and C. Sign Naslund to make up for some of that scoring and give up a blue chip defense man in Tyutin in the hopes that Zherdev would come to NY and flourish here.

I mean, we couldn't afford to match what Jagr was being offered in Russia. And then Jagr comes out with comments like, "well, I have to talk to my parents who have always been so vital to my hockey career and see what they say."

If I'm blaming anyone at all for the Rangers being where they are now. I blame Jagr. We wouldn't have Naslund, but to think we could have had Zherdev, Dubinsky and Jagr playing together. Too me that's a great line with chemistry already established between Jagr and Dubinsky. IMO, Jagr left his team in the dust. And now he wants to come back and play for the Oilers?? Sounds like a selfish young boy too me. Maybe Milbury was right about him after all. Maybe he was rightfully booed when he came back to play in the two cities he's made a career in the NHL playing for.

To me Rozsival was a good signing for obvious reasons. He's a good defense man who could put up some points. The only thing I can think of as to why Redden is here is too help with the young defense men on this team (Staal, Girardi, Sangs if he comes up...etc). The other reason why Redden is here is probably to make up for the loss of Tyutin, who everyone agrees is a good defense-man.

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Old
02-13-2009, 01:18 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravytrain6t;17899014

[B
Jagr ditched the NHL for the KHL[/B] and this is the team we have.

I feel like all a long Slats has been trying to fill the voids that fans wanted but now we're at the point we're at and Sather is the problem. I don't think Sather was lying in the off season when he said Jagr was his main priority. But he couldn't get him back. So Slats had to turn to plans B and C. Sign Naslund to make up for some of that scoring and give up a blue chip defense man in Tyutin in the hopes that Zherdev would come to NY and flourish here.

I mean, we couldn't afford to match what Jagr was being offered in Russia. And then Jagr comes out with comments like, "well, I have to talk to my parents who have always been so vital to my hockey career and see what they say."

If I'm blaming anyone at all for the Rangers being where they are now. I blame Jagr. We wouldn't have Naslund, but to think we could have had Zherdev, Dubinsky and Jagr playing together. Too me that's a great line with chemistry already established between Jagr and Dubinsky. IMO, Jagr left his team in the dust. And now he wants to come back and play for the Oilers?? Sounds like a selfish young boy too me. Maybe Milbury was right about him after all. Maybe he was rightfully booed when he came back to play in the two cities he's made a career in the NHL playing for.

I posted this the other night in a different thread. It seems like Jagr wanted to come back for 2 years but Glenny wanted him for only 1 year. Sather never really took initiative to bring him back, if Slats wanted Jagr back I think he would still be here.

Quote:
Jagr was thought to be seeking a two-year deal to return to the Rangers, while Sather seemed more interested in bringing him back for one. Sather said he was never told by Jagr or his agent, Pat Brisson, exactly what the terms would be to keep Jagr.

"He told me he wanted to play here, I told him we wanted him to play here, his agent told me he wanted to play here, I told his agent several times, but it never got back to the situation where he said, 'If you give me X amount of dollars, I'll come back to play in New York,"' Sather said. "I kind of always got the feeling that maybe there was something in Russia that is really looking at him, and if there was enough money to stay here he would've stayed.

"We never got down to that situation where I knew exactly what he was looking for whether it was a one-year or a two-year, or a longer-year term. There was never any discussion like that. It's pretty tough to negotiate with yourself."

Brisson characterized the negotiations differently.

"Glen and I had many discussions regarding Jaromir in the past month or so," he said in an e-mail to The Associated Press. "It wasn't a matter of he and or us coming up with the right proposal. Jaromir wants to get a deal done if, when, and or where he sees fit. Time will tell."
Link: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...-naslund_N.htm

The whole "Jagr to the Oilers" nonsense was purely a rumor and Jagr never expressed interest in playing there. To blame our team's failings on Jagr is ludicrous. Sather was too busy trying to sign yet another overpaid player in Redden rather than focusing on Jagr.

Why not blame Gomez for not clicking with Jagr, Gomez doesn't seem to click with anyone on this team. Sather made a mistake by choosing to build a team around Gomez and Drury. That was not Jagr's decision. If Sather was more responsible in managing cap space then Jagr would probably still be on the team.

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Old
02-13-2009, 02:14 AM
  #34
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I just wish Jagr scored those 80+ points and automatically he would have been here at least this year. I would have to call Slats a lyer. He said he would try his hardest. Sather also mentioned in the Daily News on July 3rd that he was the one waiting, and waiting after putting out phone calls for Jagr's agent to get back to him. Sather claimed his phone never rang. IDK, was he lying about that too?

To me I just got a bad vibe, when after the last game, Jagr said something like " I get to dictate the terms on what I want to do with my future now. So I want to take some time, go back home and talk to my parents who were such a big part of my hockey career." Didn't sound good to me.

Jagr never denied Sathers statement that his own agent was not returning Sathers phone calls. Neither did the agent.

Sather probably wanted to at least sign Naslund before someone else did.

If Jagr didn't want to go sign in the KHL. [B]Why was he and his agent dodging phone calls and having Sather wait for days?

All the Agent had to do was pick up the phone and say sorry Slats we don't like your offer so I suggest you move on. That's all Jagr and his agent had to do.

As far as Gomez. He's clicked more times with players on this team than anyone else from a game to assist ratio. If he could never click with anyone, I'm sure the Devils wouldn't have played him every day during the season and the playoffs. After he won his Calder Trophy and his first Cup, Lou would have traded him.

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Old
02-13-2009, 08:32 AM
  #35
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First Hradek and now LeBrun running with the idea that Sather mismanaged the cap with marginal talent, leaving Renney with the nearly impossible task of cleaning up his mess.

So, to summarize, the experts at ESPN recognize that Renney has serious personnel issues to deal with while the "experts" on hfboards constantly call for his head.

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Old
02-13-2009, 06:41 PM
  #36
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Well Sather does spend to the cap and he outbid people to buy UFAs. I'm not going to say that what he's done has hurt the team because they win more games with these guys than without them. When it comes to a time that the Rangers want to make a move and can't because they don't have the cap space, then I'll say what he's done has hurt the team. There limited cap space hasn't stopped them yet and didn't keep them from going after Sundin. Until then, he's just spending to the cap and buying players. We're not getting great value out of any of them, though I don't think you ever get great value out of a UFA unless you're really lucky. In the end, if Redden signed for 2 million a year instead of 6.5 and we had the same players on the team, the only thing it really affects is the profits of the owners. I'm sure if the didn't like losing what they've lost in profits, Sather wouldn't be GM any more.

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Old
02-13-2009, 07:03 PM
  #37
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he is exactly correct on his observations. I don't think Renney is not at all to blame. Why does he not mention how he sits are good players. Anyway finally a so called expert using analysis that make sense. I respect this guy a little, more and hope Sather is really looked at in question. Because he is the problem. Lucky NY is made of money so they can always max out to the cap.

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