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Pittsburg and Toronto good trading partners?

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Old
02-11-2009, 10:39 AM
  #26
grabo84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
Antropov doesn't have the quickness to beat defenders off the boards with the puck... the Pens have enough third liners who can cycle the puck down low, but not generate offense.
Antropov would be one point behind Sykora for 3rd on the pens in points... and he hasn't been playing with Crosby or Malkin all year. This is beyond stupid.

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02-11-2009, 10:40 AM
  #27
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by awright1393 View Post
you remind me of a lot of nonleaf hockey fans living in ontario. it's not your choice but the leafs r jammed down your throat everywhere you go in this province if you like to talk or listen to hockey news. that being said, your opinion, imo, is a bit harsh and inacurate. antropov is great along the boards as a playmaker off the forecheck. he is valueable to any team short of 4 top 6 wingers.
I've become a Leaf fan the last few yrs because of my g/f... so they aren't jammed down my throat and my opinion isn't out of some kind of Leaf hate. I actually root for them and Antropov is extremely frustrating to watch.

Other posters in this thread are making it out like Antropov is some beast along the boards... he isn't.

He can hold the puck along the boards because of his size, but he doesn't generate nearly enough offense off the cycle because he doesn't have the quickness to get away from anyone down low...

When he does try to dangle with the puck he either loses it, is taken off the puck, or gets a weak shot on goal.

You rarely seem him take the puck to the net or create much off the rush...

Could you imagine him trying to keep up with Crosby? Even Hossa said it took some time getting used to the speed at which Crosby plays...

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02-11-2009, 10:43 AM
  #28
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I think that Antropov has some value - just not as much as his stats would suggest.

He's getting 1st line icetime and PP time in TOR because they lack other options, so he's getting more chance to produce that he would on a contender where he'd be a 2nd line winger.

I think he'll get a decent return for a rental, but his value is no where near Whitney's IMO.

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Old
02-11-2009, 10:43 AM
  #29
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Antropov would be one point behind Sykora for 3rd on the pens in points... and he hasn't been playing with Crosby or Malkin all year. This is beyond stupid.
Rico Fata was once leading the Pens in points before they had Crosby and Malkin...

Did that make him a good player?

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02-11-2009, 10:44 AM
  #30
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What are burke's plans for blake? Is he on the short list?

If he's not part of the equation in TO, Does Goligoski and a 2/3 get him to pittsburgh.

(forget that butt-end isles crap with crosby)

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02-11-2009, 10:46 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
Rico Fata was once leading the Pens in points before they had Crosby and Malkin...

Did that make him a good player?
Since when did Rico Fata ever lead the pens in points? His career high was 34 points over a whole season. That's 5 less than Antropov has right now.

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02-11-2009, 10:48 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
PITT's get's cornholed IMO.

4.3 years of Staal > 2.3 years of Kaberle
3.3 years of Whitney >>>>>>> 20 games of Antropov

Not a fan of either team, but I think that Kaberle + Antropov for Staal is a lot closer.

Its closer ,but still bad. Pitt would get 20 games of a slow overrated Antropov, as well as two years of Kaberle (who is in the middle of a brutal season). If I'm Pitt, I wouldn't trade Whitney OR Staal for that package, let alone both.

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Old
02-11-2009, 10:50 AM
  #33
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Whitney and Staal don't work as a package deal, because Shero will not trade both of them. He is going to trade one or the other, depending on a certain team's needs and what kind of wingers they have to offer.

One is going, one is staying.

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Old
02-11-2009, 11:09 AM
  #34
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Pens don't come anywhere near this.

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02-11-2009, 11:16 AM
  #35
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Since when did Rico Fata ever lead the pens in points? His career high was 34 points over a whole season. That's 5 less than Antropov has right now.
I said he once was leading them in points, I didn't say for a season. You are comparing points halfway thru the season...He was once leading the Pens in points before the All Star game in 03-04... before Morozov and Tarnstrom turned it on at the end of the year to finish 1-2.

Which proves that when there aren't any good players to take #1 minutes, especially on the PP, someone has to play and will get points almost by default.

Antropov had one good season and only reached 56 pts then...

He has basically avg. around the mid 30s in points his whole career.

Again, he is being dumped for a reason. If he produced like Leaf mgmt had hoped when he was drafted, he wouldn't be let go.

Leaf fans have always had this delusion he is some great player just waiting to breakout and be dominant... and every year he disappoints.

He hasn't produced, so now he is gone. Once he is gone your bias will go away and you will start to understand why he isn't a good player.

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02-11-2009, 11:17 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ic3d2 View Post
What are burke's plans for blake? Is he on the short list?

If he's not part of the equation in TO, Does Goligoski and a 2/3 get him to pittsburgh.

(forget that butt-end isles crap with crosby)
I think that a 3rd alone gets Blake. There is NO way the Pens include Goligoski for Jason flipping Blake.


Last edited by Beukeboom Fan: 02-11-2009 at 01:04 PM.
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Old
02-11-2009, 11:22 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
It has nothing to do with Burke... he is just the first Leaf's GM to see the light about this guy.

I've seen Antropov play for yrs in hundreds of games and have always thought he was a bad player... he is slow, weak along the boards, has NO 1-1 abilities, and blows scoring chance after scoring chance.

He really does nothing well...

Satan has already filled the role of the lazy, awkward player who skates poorly and doesn't play physical.

The Leafs top 6 is pretty bad, yet Burke is willing to let him walk...

That speaks volumes about him.
Lol dude no one gives a **** about your opinion. You are not the be all end all in judging any hockey player let alone Antropov. He isn't garbage just because you've seen him play hundreds of games.

Get over yourself.

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02-11-2009, 11:23 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I think that a 3rd along gets Blake. There is NO way the Pens include Goligoski for Jason flipping Blake.
Does goligoski get Nik and J? I personally like a Schenn/goligoski 1/2 pairing.

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Old
02-11-2009, 11:24 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by ic3d2 View Post
Does goligoski get Nik and J? I personally like a Schenn/goligoski 1/2 pairing.
Pens don't want Blake's contract for anything.

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Old
02-11-2009, 11:25 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
Antropov is garbage... if the Pens trade for him it will be a massive blunder.

Let alone give up assets like Staal or Whitney for him.
I don't see how you can call Antropov garbage, but call Staal an asset. I personally would rather have Antropov over Staal any day of the week.

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Old
02-11-2009, 11:28 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
I said he once was leading them in points, I didn't say for a season. You are comparing points halfway thru the season...He was once leading the Pens in points before the All Star game in 03-04... before Morozov and Tarnstrom turned it on at the end of the year to finish 1-2.

Which proves that when there aren't any good players to take #1 minutes, especially on the PP, someone has to play and will get points almost by default.

Antropov had one good season and only reached 56 pts then...
I figured that was your point, but it still isn't very good. Not even close to being a comparable situation, Antropov doesn't play any more minutes than the other 2 top lines. It's sort of a 1a, 1b, 1c type set-up right now. All of them play between 16-18 minutes a night.

So far as the one good season point, it probably bears mentioning that season was last year, and he's on a better pace this year. Also that he was on the same pace in 05/06 and 06/07, before those seasons were derailed by injuries. This injury history is probably a concern to some teams, but playing two consecutive healthy seasons has to alleviate some of that.

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02-11-2009, 11:41 AM
  #42
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Although it is relatively even, I doubt Toronto will do this as they want picks rather than players. Staal upside is also a question mark until he gets 1st or 2nd line minutes and wingers.

Antropov should bring back a late 1st or 2nd and prospect while Kaberle will bring back a package similar to what Campbell and Boyle fetched.
Even? Whitney has an awesome contract and Staal would be our #1 centre for the next 4 years @ 4M per. It will be a crapshoot as to whether the 1st in this years draft would be a top 3 guy. I'm a Toronto fan, and this is not even. A salary dump back to Toronto at the minimum, but probably something else going to Pittsburgh.

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Old
02-11-2009, 11:46 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by WildWolfdog View Post
Lol dude no one gives a **** about your opinion. You are not the be all end all in judging any hockey player let alone Antropov. He isn't garbage just because you've seen him play hundreds of games.

Get over yourself.
Somehow I'll get over your post and go on...

Keep trying to convince yourself the Leafs will get a huge return for him..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabrescrazedfan4 View Post
I don't see how you can call Antropov garbage, but call Staal an asset. I personally would rather have Antropov over Staal any day of the week.
There are about 30 Gms who would disagree with you...

One player just got a new contract and the other has a GM who wants nothing to do with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
I figured that was your point, but it still isn't very good. Not even close to being a comparable situation, Antropov doesn't play any more minutes than the other 2 top lines. It's sort of a 1a, 1b, 1c type set-up right now. All of them play between 16-18 minutes a night.
He is on the top line and gets close to 19m a night and is also on the #1 pp...
Quote:

So far as the one good season point, it probably bears mentioning that season was last year, and he's on a better pace this year. Also that he was on the same pace in 05/06 and 06/07, before those seasons werewas a top 10 p derailed by injuries. This injury history is probably a concern to some teams, but playing two consecutive healthy seasons has to alleviate some of that.
He hasn't gone through the rigors of the playoffs with those bad knees and stayed healthy... I don't see how it wouldn't be a concern.

Antropov was a high pick who hasn't lived up to his potential, that is a fact. Leaf fans only are trying to convince themselves he is a good player because they want a big return for him - which I can understand.

Once he is no longer a Leaf it will be funny to see how the opinions about him sway...

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02-11-2009, 11:47 AM
  #44
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Hell No.

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Old
02-11-2009, 11:52 AM
  #45
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Good deal for Toronto but almost 8.5 million in cap space coming back.

Thats something to consider as well. While the deal may be attractive it will occupy a lot of cap space. Whitney is not exactly a tough customer either. I've read Pittsburgh fans complain time and time again how soft he is.

Trust me, Leafs fans are overcrowded on this board and even we dont complain that much about Kaberle's toughness than Pittsburgh fans do about Whitney's. I'm not sure about this one though.

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Old
02-11-2009, 11:57 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
He is on the top line and gets close to 19m a night and is also on the #1 pp...
Close to 19 minutes a night is awfully similar to 16-18 minutes a night. Was that really worth a rebuttal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
He hasn't gone through the rigors of the playoffs with those bad knees and stayed healthy... I don't see how it wouldn't be a concern.

Antropov was a high pick who hasn't lived up to his potential, that is a fact. Leaf fans only are trying to convince themselves he is a good player because they want a big return for him - which I can understand.

Once he is no longer a Leaf it will be funny to see how the opinions about him sway...
I won't bother with the injury stuff too much, but it obviously would be a concern to some degree. How much of one is debatable, and like I said, he's been healthy for the past two seasons.

As for the bolded part, yes, that is true to an extent. That also doesn't mean that he doesn't have value, or that he's a useless or soft player like you were saying earlier. He is who he is right now, and thats a 6'6 forward with good hands around the net.

If you say something ridiculous people will challenge you on it. I'm not saying Antropov is an all-star, and I would expect to be called on it if I made a claim like that. But he's definitely not a third-liner, or weak on the boards like you were saying earlier. Is his skill-set worth a first? I think so, but there'll only be one way to find out.

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02-11-2009, 12:06 PM
  #47
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Pens are very veyr unlikely to make the playoffs. So there is no real pressure to add, I think that it is more likely that they will be sellers as there are ten days until the trade deadline and they have a very tough stretch coming starting with SJ tonight. I doubt that they win the six or seven games that they need to to have a real shot at the playoffs.

Staal and Whitney are admittedly expendable. Not easily so, Whitney is still recovering from surgery but when well is one of the better offensive defensemen in the league and if used properly, meaning paired with a very responsible defensive defensemen, could be golden for a team for years. And signed to a very nice $4 mil per long term. He is only expendable because the Pens are simply loaded with offensive defensemen who could or already do star in the league. Staal will someday be a guy who nets you 35 or so goals and a similar number of assists while playing stellar defense. He already, with all the crap he is getting, is averaging 2/3 of those totals so they are not pie in the sky. He will someday be a very integral part of a team, but could be expendable because the Pens have Crosby and Malkin down the middle. Both could be kept easily and could be and are big parts of the Pens. But if the Pens want to make a move, say for a wing, they are basically the best parts to do so.

With that intro, I ask the question. Why would they use those assets for . . . this?

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02-11-2009, 12:12 PM
  #48
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Close to 19 minutes a night is awfully similar to 16-18 minutes a night. Was that really worth a rebuttal?
I didn't offer it as a rebuttal... I made a statement that he gets roughly 19m a night and is on the #1 PP... not sure how you could have a problem with that statement.

Quote:
As for the bolded part, yes, that is true to an extent. That also doesn't mean that he doesn't have value, or that he's a useless or soft player like you were saying earlier. He is who he is right now, and thats a 6'6 forward with good hands around the net.

If you say something ridiculous people will challenge you on it. I'm not saying Antropov is an all-star, and I would expect to be called on it if I made a claim like that. But he's definitely not a third-liner, or weak on the boards like you were saying earlier. Is his skill-set worth a first? I think so, but there'll only be one way to find out.
Leaf fans who want a big return for him are the ones who have a problem with what I said...

Once he is moved (and no way does he get a #1 back), many Leaf fans will suddenly jump off his bandwagon - and in several years be starting jokes with the line "Remember when the Leafs were so bad Antropov was on the first line..."

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02-11-2009, 12:14 PM
  #49
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Even? Whitney has an awesome contract and Staal would be our #1 centre for the next 4 years @ 4M per. It will be a crapshoot as to whether the 1st in this years draft would be a top 3 guy. I'm a Toronto fan, and this is not even. A salary dump back to Toronto at the minimum, but probably something else going to Pittsburgh.
I don't think Staal is #1 centre material.

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02-11-2009, 12:18 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Eraser View Post
I don't think Staal is #1 centre material.
Depends on the team. He still can not legally drink in the states, and plays stellar shut down defense, has a huge frame that has yet to fill out, and is almost certain to pot in the mid 30's in goals and in assists in his prime. Think John Madden who scores more. I could see a team like NJ or Montreal salivating over putting Staal at center on their first or second line and leaving him there for the next decade or so.

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