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Pittsburg and Toronto good trading partners?

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Old
02-11-2009, 12:26 PM
  #51
FreeBird
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Sid the Kids Passion and Talent could get these guy's Going

I'd love to see Antropov and Poni flanking Sid the Kid, I mean how can they be effective with Matt Stajan as their Centre. The Leafs can take Satan and Fedetenko's and contracts. The only question is what can Pittsburgh give up, Letang, Gogolowski, 1st and 2nd rd picks??

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Old
02-11-2009, 12:31 PM
  #52
grabo84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
I didn't offer it as a rebuttal... I made a statement that he gets roughly 19m a night and is on the #1 PP... not sure how you could have a problem with that statement.
No, you said close to 19 minutes a night. That was in response to me saying he plays 16-18 minutes a night.

In his last five games, the absolute most he has played is a bit under 18 minutes, whereas the least he has played is under 15. Generally, he comes in a bit over 16 minutes a game. He hasn't played 19 minutes in a game since the start of December. This is why I had a problem with that statement.

Wilson shuffles the powerplay time around a bit, depending on who's hot that game. I'm not sure if you can really point to a particular line as being his #1 PP unit.

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Old
02-11-2009, 12:53 PM
  #53
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
No, you said close to 19 minutes a night. That was in response to me saying he plays 16-18 minutes a night.
Right...

Because the extra 3 minutes he hasn't been logging since before Christmas is the difference between him being a good player and a bad one...

Not only that, but it is the reason why you will get a #1 pick for an UFA that has never lived up to his draft billing.

He was playing 19m and sometimes 20m a night until January. There is a reason his ice time dropped...

Maybe it was that 15+ game goal drought?

Think that might have something to do with why Burke doesn't want him around?

That about cover the 16... 19 thing?


Last edited by Mr Jiggyfly: 02-11-2009 at 01:02 PM.
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Old
02-11-2009, 01:03 PM
  #54
grabo84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
Right...

Because the extra 3 minutes he hasn't been logging since before Christmas is the difference between him being a good player and a bad one...
Man, you don't get it. I just said that you're wrong about his TOI numbers, the ones you tried to correct me on. I think he is a good player, and I don't think there's any need to make excuses for his play.

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Old
02-11-2009, 01:23 PM
  #55
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Man, you don't get it. I just said that you're wrong about his TOI numbers, the ones you tried to correct me on. I think he is a good player, and I don't think there's any need to make excuses for his play.
No bro you don't seem to get it...

You are trying to act like he has been playing 15-16 min a night all season... you are trying to twist the stats around to support your argument.

He was avg. around 18-19 min a night until mid December... and getting #1 PP time.

Then he hit a huge goal scoring drought... as he always does.

His last goal was agt. the Pens on Dec 20th.. I know because I was at that game.

His ice time dropped steadily after that...

His next goal wasn't until Jan 28th or 29th agt. the Avs....

Well over a month between goals.

When he isn't scoring goals he is about as worthless a player as you will find.

But if you still want to believe some team will give up a #1 for him.. eventhough he isn't a very good player AND he is an UFA... more power to you.

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Old
02-11-2009, 01:34 PM
  #56
grabo84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
No bro you don't seem to get it...

You are trying to act like he has been playing 15-16 min a night all season... you are trying to twist the stats around to support your argument.

He was avg. around 18-19 min a night until mid December... and getting #1 PP time.

Then he hit a huge goal scoring drought... as he always does.

His last goal was agt. the Pens on Dec 20th.. I know because I was at that game.

His ice time dropped steadily after that...

His next goal wasn't until Jan 28th or 29th agt. the Avs....

Well over a month between goals.

When he isn't scoring goals he is about as worthless a player as you will find.

But if you still want to believe some team will give up a #1 for him.. eventhough he isn't a very good player AND he is an UFA... more power to you.
The numbers are on my side here. You were flat out wrong, and you won't admit it. Classy.

Anyways, I've always said a 1st or a 2nd and a decent prospect, and I'm still very confident in that. Like I said, we'll find out in a few weeks.

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Old
02-11-2009, 01:42 PM
  #57
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
The numbers are on my side here. You were flat out wrong, and you won't admit it. Classy.

Anyways, I've always said a 1st or a 2nd and a decent prospect, and I'm still very confident in that. Like I said, we'll find out in a few weeks.
Flat wrong? Oh man...

When I'm proven wrong I always admit it - all you have done is try to twist the numbers.

You refuse to admit he was getting 18-19 min a night before his goal less drought... and that is why his TOI was dropped.

The numbers don't lie...

But you believe he is worth a first rounder, so no sense arguing with someone who wants to live in a fantasy world.

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Old
02-11-2009, 01:42 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
I've become a Leaf fan the last few yrs because of my g/f... so they aren't jammed down my throat and my opinion isn't out of some kind of Leaf hate. I actually root for them and Antropov is extremely frustrating to watch.

Other posters in this thread are making it out like Antropov is some beast along the boards... he isn't.
He can hold the puck along the boards because of his size, but he doesn't generate nearly enough offense off the cycle because he doesn't have the quickness to get away from anyone down low...

When he does try to dangle with the puck he either loses it, is taken off the puck, or gets a weak shot on goal.

You rarely seem him take the puck to the net or create much off the rush...

Could you imagine him trying to keep up with Crosby? Even Hossa said it took some time getting used to the speed at which Crosby plays...
That statement clearly shows you haven't seen him play. Antropov is one of the tougher players for the Leafs to knock off the puck, and next game you watch tell me how many times he goes into the boards, and how often does he come out with the puck.

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Old
02-11-2009, 01:45 PM
  #59
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He may get a first rounder, I doubt it but who knows? The trade deadline is a time for all sorts of stupidity. But is he worth a first? That is an entirely different question. No way in hell, not even close.

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Old
02-11-2009, 01:49 PM
  #60
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If Gill got us 2nd and 5th, I'm sure Antropov can get us more than that

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Old
02-11-2009, 01:50 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TML4LIFE View Post
That statement clearly shows you haven't seen him play. Antropov is one of the tougher players for the Leafs to knock off the puck, and next game you watch tell me how many times he goes into the boards, and how often does he come out with the puck.
Don't try and tell me he comes off the boards with the puck on a regular basis or even generates any offense...

How hard is it to understand the difference between being knocked off the puck along the boards and generating offense off the boards?

I guess Laraque is clearly the best player along the boards in the league then...

There is a huge difference between cycling the puck along the boards and having the skill set to produce offense from the boards...

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Old
02-11-2009, 02:08 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
Flat wrong? Oh man...

When I'm proven wrong I always admit it - all you have done is try to twist the numbers.

You refuse to admit he was getting 18-19 min a night before his goal less drought... and that is why his TOI was dropped.

The numbers don't lie...

But you believe he is worth a first rounder, so no sense arguing with someone who wants to live in a fantasy world.
How am I twisting numbers? I said 16-18 minutes a night. You corrected me and said 19 minutes. I pointed out that he hasn't played 19 minutes in a game since december and then you went off on a tangent. He's played 19 + minutes a game 7 times this year. Most of the time he's been in the 16-18 minute range, like I said originally. This is beyond stupid, its such a tiny little point, but you were wrong.

I'm a pretty reasonable guy. I'm a Leafs fan obviously, and I have my favourites, but I try to be as fair as I can be. I don't think I'm living in a fantasy world for thinking Antropov is worth a 2nd + prospect or a 1st on its own.

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Old
02-11-2009, 02:10 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
How am I twisting numbers? I said 16-18 minutes a night. You corrected me and said 19 minutes. I pointed out that he hasn't played 19 minutes in a game since december and then you went off on a tangent. He's played 19 + minutes a game 7 times this year. Most of the time he's been in the 16-18 minute range, like I said originally. This is beyond stupid, its such a tiny little point, but you were wrong.

I'm a pretty reasonable guy. I'm a Leafs fan obviously, and I have my favourites, but I try to be as fair as I can be. I don't think I'm living in a fantasy world for thinking Antropov is worth a 2nd + prospect or a 1st on its own.
Maybe, maybe not. Certainly not from the Pens at that price. At least I hope Shero is not that stupid.

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Old
02-11-2009, 02:17 PM
  #64
grabo84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
He may get a first rounder, I doubt it but who knows? The trade deadline is a time for all sorts of stupidity. But is he worth a first? That is an entirely different question. No way in hell, not even close.
I agree with you on this to a degree. There's no doubt that Antropov for a first is a deadline deal sort of trade, and I guess I'm assuming some sort of overpayment based on when the trade's happening. There's a lot of history for that sort of thing, so it isn't too unreasonable. Still, I'd be shocked if he got less than a 2nd + prospect.

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Old
02-11-2009, 02:31 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
Don't try and tell me he comes off the boards with the puck on a regular basis or even generates any offense...

How hard is it to understand the difference between being knocked off the puck along the boards and generating offense off the boards?

I guess Laraque is clearly the best player along the boards in the league then...

There is a huge difference between cycling the puck along the boards and having the skill set to produce offense from the boards...
I'm not going to try and tell you I just am going to tell you. Antropov more often than not, when in the corners getting the puck, not only come out with the puck most of the time, but is very difficult to move off the puck. I see this every game I watch, not sure how you can say that is untrue. Would not being the first player to get the puck in the offensive zone be creating offense?

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Old
02-11-2009, 02:52 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
How am I twisting numbers? I said 16-18 minutes a night. You corrected me and said 19 minutes. I pointed out that he hasn't played 19 minutes in a game since december and then you went off on a tangent. He's played 19 + minutes a game 7 times this year. Most of the time he's been in the 16-18 minute range, like I said originally. This is beyond stupid, its such a tiny little point, but you were wrong.

I'm a pretty reasonable guy. I'm a Leafs fan obviously, and I have my favourites, but I try to be as fair as I can be. I don't think I'm living in a fantasy world for thinking Antropov is worth a 2nd + prospect or a 1st on its own.
If a tangent is explaining exactly why he went from getting 18-19m a night to reduced ice time... then so be it.

I look at as using facts. You refuse to acknowledge why his ice time was reduced... so be it.

As for the second round pick, sure it is possible. I've seen GMs make dumber moves.

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Old
02-11-2009, 02:54 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by TML4LIFE View Post
I'm not going to try and tell you I just am going to tell you. Antropov more often than not, when in the corners getting the puck, not only come out with the puck most of the time, but is very difficult to move off the puck. I see this every game I watch, not sure how you can say that is untrue. Would not being the first player to get the puck in the offensive zone be creating offense?
I'm not going to try and tell you, I just am going to tell you this...

If he was that kind of player, Burke would be keeping him.

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Old
02-11-2009, 02:56 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
If a tangent is explaining exactly why he went from getting 18-19m a night to reduced ice time... then so be it.

I look at as using facts. You refuse to acknowledge why his ice time was reduced... so be it.

As for the second round pick, sure it is possible. I've seen GMs make dumber moves.
That isn't true. It just has nothing to do with what we're talking about, so I didn't bother getting into it. What, you think this is some grand strategy on my part to overrate Antropov? I think you give me too much credit.

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Old
02-11-2009, 02:57 PM
  #69
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I would be excited if this happened, though I'm not a big Whitney fan.
any Staal bro is awesome.

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Old
02-11-2009, 03:14 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
That isn't true. It just has nothing to do with what we're talking about, so I didn't bother getting into it. What, you think this is some grand strategy on my part to overrate Antropov? I think you give me too much credit.
Ok we'll start all over and make it really easy ok...

Antropov was getting 18-19m a night and #1 pp time until late December when he went on a goal scoring drought that lasted well over a month...

Which is something he has done throughout his unremarkable career (disappear for long stretches)...

When his drought came his ice time was reduced and he became pretty useless...

Which is one of many reasons why Burke wants to ship him out... but yet he also said he believes Moore deserves another contract...

A third liner with less "impressive" stats than Antropov deserves a new contract but Antropov doesn't...

All this aside you believe he is a good player who should fetch a first rounder?

I think that is pure fantasy... especially when you consider that Burke wouldn't of come out with this news if he was fielding any kind of competitive offers for Antropov.

Let me know if I missed anything...

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Old
02-11-2009, 03:28 PM
  #71
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Both teams get what they want, but...

Pittsburgh gives up too much of their young core for two players (one of whom is a rental).

Toronto gives both up both of their most tradable assets for only two non-superstar players.

I'm not saying it's not a fair deal, but I don't think either side would do it.

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Old
02-11-2009, 03:30 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/pit090211.html

Antropov and Kaberle for Whitney and Staal

Antropov on the wing with Sid the Kid. Kaberle an instant upgrade on defence. Toronto gets younger and begins the rebuild with this trade.

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Old
02-11-2009, 03:31 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
Let me know if I missed anything...
You know, I think that could have used an extra touch of condescension.

Anyways, we obviously don't agree, and I don't think we'll convince each other. I'll just point out, again, that your statement that he was playing 19 minutes a night before his mid-winter slump isn't true. He's only played 19 minutes or over 7 times this year. In fact, his ice-time now is essentially the same as it was at the start of the year. So I really don't see how you're able to say that his ice time has been cut back dramatically, it just seems like a normal fluctuation to me.

This is all ignoring the fact that you only brought this argument up after I proved that you were wrong to claim he plays 19 minutes a night. Am I clear now?

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Old
02-11-2009, 03:37 PM
  #74
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jordan staal = jeff carter v.2

just be patient

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Old
02-11-2009, 03:38 PM
  #75
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This is a horrible deal for Pittsburgh.

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